Topic: Liberty Reserve is now dead (Good News For Bitcoin ?) - page 2. (Read 10133 times)
I have $500 in Forex all exchanged from BTC to LR and now all is the account without a way to withdraw. damn gringos.
Wrong.
Mt Gox operates from Japan (this is not a US state, in case you were still unsure)
This means the Japanese authorities would have to cooperate with the US extradition orders and subpoenas etc. That won't happen. Costa Rica and Spain will give up the Liberty Reserve people. Japan won't be giving up Mt. Gox, or at a least not without an inordinate amount of backdoors arm-twisting. And when you look at both the political and the public sentiment towards the US in Japan lately, you'll realise that's also pretty unlikely.
True but then MTGox have to refuse US customers.
It's simple. Pay them tax (US Govt) or don't do business in/with america/american citizens.
Guys, what are you talking about? Seriously? Didn't you know that Japan's defence is completely dependent on the US? Didn't you know that Japan is just a proxy of the US, just like most of European countries (including Scandinavia, but they seem to forget it sometimes)?
Please check the extradition treaty 31 UST 892, Treaty Doc. 108-12. Signed in the 70's and just reviewed and extended less than 10 years ago.
How can you say that "Japan won't be giving up Mt. Gox"? On what do you base your absurd claim? Name only one case in which Japan refused to extradite a "criminal" on USA's request. ONLY ONE.
Jeeeez, guys, I don't know in what world are you living in.
Wrong.
Mt Gox operates from Japan (this is not a US state, in case you were still unsure)
This means the Japanese authorities would have to cooperate with the US extradition orders and subpoenas etc. That won't happen. Costa Rica and Spain will give up the Liberty Reserve people. Japan won't be giving up Mt. Gox, or at a least not without an inordinate amount of backdoors arm-twisting. And when you look at both the political and the public sentiment towards the US in Japan lately, you'll realise that's also pretty unlikely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties
Ya but it's a bad sign overall IMO...
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
I can speak for myself
No, shutting down unregulated gambling sites and exchanges is LOW PRIORITY.
The US takes it's sweet time...
Bureaucrats usually spend 2-3 years building a case...
Identifying principals involved and observing an operation...
Then, "suddenly", the site goes down in 5 minutes.
That's what happened with Full Tilt Poker... 5-10 times bigger than MtGox.
The principals are then charged with crimes carrying huge jail sentences...
Linked to drugs, terrorism, porn, etc...
The principals are invariably extradited or have to go on the run...
Then the whole thing is negotiated with $1000/hour lawyers...
But the business disappears overnight.
Rinse and repeat.
One has to be in complete denial...
To think MtGox or Bitstamp is different from LR or FTP.
Wrong.
Mt Gox operates from Japan (this is not a US state, in case you were still unsure)
This means the Japanese authorities would have to cooperate with the US extradition orders and subpoenas etc. That won't happen. Costa Rica and Spain will give up the Liberty Reserve people. Japan won't be giving up Mt. Gox, or at a least not without an inordinate amount of backdoors arm-twisting. And when you look at both the political and the public sentiment towards the US in Japan lately, you'll realise that's also pretty unlikely.
What are you talking about? Japan is a proxy of the US. They will do whatever the US says.
If you were speaking of Russia... OK, maybe. China... Yeah, US would have a hard time. Iran? OK, in that case you would be definitely right. But come on, Japan? They will do EVERYTHING that daddy US tells them, as they have done since WWII.
No, shutting down unregulated gambling sites and exchanges is LOW PRIORITY.
The US takes it's sweet time...
Bureaucrats usually spend 2-3 years building a case...
Identifying principals involved and observing an operation...
Then, "suddenly", the site goes down in 5 minutes.
That's what happened with Full Tilt Poker... 5-10 times bigger than MtGox.
The principals are then charged with crimes carrying huge jail sentences...
Linked to drugs, terrorism, porn, etc...
The principals are invariably extradited or have to go on the run...
Then the whole thing is negotiated with $1000/hour lawyers...
But the business disappears overnight.
Rinse and repeat.
One has to be in complete denial...
To think MtGox or Bitstamp is different from LR or FTP.
Wrong.
Mt Gox operates from Japan (this is not a US state, in case you were still unsure)
This means the Japanese authorities would have to cooperate with the US extradition orders and subpoenas etc. That won't happen. Costa Rica and Spain will give up the Liberty Reserve people. Japan won't be giving up Mt. Gox, or at a least not without an inordinate amount of backdoors arm-twisting. And when you look at both the political and the public sentiment towards the US in Japan lately, you'll realise that's also pretty unlikely.
No, shutting down unregulated gambling sites and exchanges is LOW PRIORITY.
The US takes it's sweet time...
Bureaucrats usually spend 2-3 years building a case...
Identifying principals involved and observing an operation...
Then, "suddenly", the site goes down in 5 minutes.
That's what happened with Full Tilt Poker... 5-10 times bigger than MtGox.
The principals are then charged with crimes carrying huge jail sentences...
Linked to drugs, terrorism, porn, etc...
The principals are invariably extradited or have to go on the run...
Then the whole thing is negotiated with $1000/hour lawyers...
But the business disappears overnight.
Rinse and repeat.
One has to be in complete denial...
To think MtGox or Bitstamp is different from LR or FTP.
Wrong.
Mt Gox operates from Japan (this is not a US state, in case you were still unsure)
This means the Japanese authorities would have to cooperate with the US extradition orders and subpoenas etc. That won't happen. Costa Rica and Spain will give up the Liberty Reserve people. Japan won't be giving up Mt. Gox, or at a least not without an inordinate amount of backdoors arm-twisting. And when you look at both the political and the public sentiment towards the US in Japan lately, you'll realise that's also pretty unlikely.
MtGox could be closed tomorrow.
This is clearly not the case, because by that rationale, it would have already happened. Mt. Gox can still operate it's Japanese bank accounts denominated in all currencies...
No, shutting down unregulated gambling sites and exchanges is LOW PRIORITY.
The US takes it's sweet time...
Bureaucrats usually spend 2-3 years building a case...
Identifying principals involved and observing an operation...
Then, "suddenly", the site goes down in 5 minutes.
That's what happened with Full Tilt Poker... 5-10 times bigger than MtGox.
The principals are then charged with crimes carrying huge jail sentences...
Linked to drugs, terrorism, porn, etc...
The principals are invariably extradited or have to go on the run...
Then the whole thing is negotiated with $1000/hour lawyers...
But the business disappears overnight.
Rinse and repeat.
One has to be in complete denial...
To think MtGox or Bitstamp is different from LR or FTP.
Was gonna reply, but you just said it all.
MtGox could be closed tomorrow.
This is clearly not the case, because by that rationale, it would have already happened. Mt. Gox can still operate it's Japanese bank accounts denominated in all currencies...
No, shutting down unregulated gambling sites and exchanges is LOW PRIORITY.
The US takes it's sweet time...
Bureaucrats usually spend 2-3 years building a case...
Identifying principals involved and observing an operation...
Then, "suddenly", the site goes down in 5 minutes.
That's what happened with Full Tilt Poker... 5-10 times bigger than MtGox.
The principals are then charged with crimes carrying huge jail sentences...
Linked to drugs, terrorism, porn, etc...
The principals are invariably extradited or have to go on the run...
Then the whole thing is negotiated with $1000/hour lawyers...
But the business disappears overnight.
Rinse and repeat.
One has to be in complete denial...
To think MtGox or Bitstamp is different from LR or FTP.
MtGox could be closed tomorrow.
This is clearly not the case, because by that rationale, it would have already happened. Mt. Gox can still operate it's Japanese bank accounts denominated in all currencies...
No, shutting down unregulated gambling sites and exchanges is LOW PRIORITY.
The US takes it's sweet time...
Bureaucrats usually spend 2-3 years building a case...
Identifying principals involved and observing an operation...
Then, "suddenly", the site goes down in 5 minutes.
That's what happened with Full Tilt Poker... 5-10 times bigger than MtGox.
The principals are then charged with crimes carrying huge jail sentences...
Linked to drugs, terrorism, porn, etc...
The principals are invariably extradited or have to go on the run...
Then the whole thing is negotiated with $1000/hour lawyers...
But the business disappears overnight.
Rinse and repeat.
One has to be in complete denial...
To think MtGox or Bitstamp is different from LR or FTP.
Don't be foolish. Liberty Reserve was a centralized service that didn't do shit to comply with regulation. You could register your account with a fake name and move hundreds of thousands of $.
Yes i know it was a centralized service that's why US govt seized them easily and and comply US regulations why? Just Because US peoples were using it?
US govt have already banned LR in USA last year and do you even knew how it used to work? They didn't had deposit/withdraw option. So You can't just register account and move your money in it, You have to buy LR from some exchanger to get LR funds and almost all of them used to require identity proof from peoples.
To the contrary, Bitcoin is a decentralized currency, and the biggest services that deal with Bitcoin do care to comply with regulation.
It's not just about paying tax,When they seized LR, they said, they closed it because Hackers/criminals were using it for drugs,childporn,trafficking,money laundering. Same thing is happening with bitcoin, the only difference with bitcoin is it's decentralized but only currency, exchangers,other trading companies are still centralized.
Not really. Bitstamp seems to be legitimate and legal. MtGox has done it's best to be legal minus this stupid issue about not telling the bank what they were doing in good faith. Major fuck up there.
Liberty reserve was obviously criminals. Everyone knows that.
BTC-e I think is real grey area. They aren't clear if they are legal are not. If they aren't then yes, eventually the government will get them. If they are legal, then they are fine.
Remember the government just wants you to pay taxes and follow regulation. If you do this, you'll be fine.
If US govt wants US citizens to pay taxes and follow regulations, then why they seized other country based digital currency and their bank accounts in several countries. Not only fucking USA citizens were using Libertyreserve but still they seized it.
Fuck US LAW.
They said it's getting used in criminals activites,drugs,childporn, bitcoin is getting used too.
They said LR used to allow peoples do money transfer with high anonymity,Bitcoin is doing same.
Don't be foolish. Liberty Reserve was a centralized service that didn't do shit to comply with regulation. You could register your account with a fake name and move hundreds of thousands of $.
To the contrary, Bitcoin is a decentralized currency, and the biggest services that deal with Bitcoin do care to comply with regulation.
I don't know if you ever applied for "verified" of "trusted" status on Gox, but they check thoroughly your documents. They reject applications for silly mispellings on the utility bill. If you are willing to move more than play money and get "trusted" status you do not only need to send notarized documents, but you need an international Apostille... That's some crazy shit, in the sense that they really try hard to comply with AML regulation (even if they are amateurish, as the failed FinCEN register demonstrates).
There's no similarity whatsoever between LR and BTC.
Not really. Bitstamp seems to be legitimate and legal. MtGox has done it's best to be legal minus this stupid issue about not telling the bank what they were doing in good faith. Major fuck up there.
Liberty reserve was obviously criminals. Everyone knows that.
BTC-e I think is real grey area. They aren't clear if they are legal are not. If they aren't then yes, eventually the government will get them. If they are legal, then they are fine.
Remember the government just wants you to pay taxes and follow regulation. If you do this, you'll be fine.
If US govt wants US citizens to pay taxes and follow regulations, then why they seized other country based digital currency and their bank accounts in several countries. Not only fucking USA citizens were using Libertyreserve but still they seized it.
Fuck US LAW.
They said it's getting used in criminals activites,drugs,childporn, bitcoin is getting used too.
They said LR used to allow peoples do money transfer with high anonymity,Bitcoin is doing same.
Every online money business that goes out of business is good for Bitcoin.
I disagree, competition is not such a bad thing. It sharpens the mind.
But if they were doing foul things with foul people, (alleged but yet to be proven) then putting them in the penalty box for a few rounds is just fine with me.
Anyone who gives "Liberty" a bad name can have a spanking.
I don't think it is good news for the community.
If Global Illicit Financial Team can shutdown Liberty Reserve, they can do likewise for mtgox, bitstamp and btc-e.
If Global Illicit Financial Team can shutdown Liberty Reserve, they can do likewise for mtgox, bitstamp and btc-e.
Not really. Bitstamp seems to be legitimate and legal. MtGox has done it's best to be legal minus this stupid issue about not telling the bank what they were doing in good faith. Major fuck up there.
Liberty reserve was obviously criminals. Everyone knows that.
BTC-e I think is real grey area. They aren't clear if they are legal are not. If they aren't then yes, eventually the government will get them. If they are legal, then they are fine.
Remember the government just wants you to pay taxes and follow regulation. If you do this, you'll be fine.
Yeah, hard fork is a solution and bitcoin would survive, but a lot of honest ASIC operators would lose a lot of investment. It'd be an ugly blow to the ecosystem. We need orders of magnitude more hashing power on the network as soon as possible.
Bring in the army of GPU miners using them for games.
Seriously though, marketing mining to the gamers is a great way to distribute infrastructure. Then they get paid when they aren't gaming and get more social life, and can afford to go on better dates.
See, the marketing does itself! MtGox could be closed tomorrow.
This is clearly not the case, because by that rationale, it would have already happened. Mt. Gox can still operate it's Japanese bank accounts denominated in all currencies, even if the Feds pull their accounts based in US jurisdiction. National sovereignty is the barrier to a Gox takedown, and I don't think the Japanese are playing nice with the US regulators right now. Long may it continue!
Every online money business that goes out of business is good for Bitcoin.
I don't think it is good news for the community.
If Global Illicit Financial Team can shutdown Liberty Reserve, they can do likewise for mtgox, bitstamp and btc-e.
When that happened, lots of fiat money and bitcoins will be frozen (or permanently lost form the network), leading to high losses for everyone.
While the bitcoin in your wallet may theoretically rise in value, you will have no way to liquidate them easily. All transactions will go back to OTC style. Escrow for OTC can be prospected for assisted "money laundering" too. So we may have to fall back to Face to Face transaction each time.
If Global Illicit Financial Team can shutdown Liberty Reserve, they can do likewise for mtgox, bitstamp and btc-e.
When that happened, lots of fiat money and bitcoins will be frozen (or permanently lost form the network), leading to high losses for everyone.
While the bitcoin in your wallet may theoretically rise in value, you will have no way to liquidate them easily. All transactions will go back to OTC style. Escrow for OTC can be prospected for assisted "money laundering" too. So we may have to fall back to Face to Face transaction each time.
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