Liberty Reserve shutdown is a boost for Bitcoin? - page 9.

Zarathustra

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Quote from: Birdy on May 29, 2013, 09:05:21 AM

Quote from: Zarathustra on May 29, 2013, 08:30:38 AM

Yes, and that is a joke, but a bad one. Either you're free (self-sufficient Anarchy) or enslaved (Patriarchy). Patriarchy (state/religion) is by definition expanding (always and by definition financed on credit an organised violence).

Because having only black and white is so helpful.

Yes, helpful. Stateless tribes have been free of organised violence. People who accept this type of organisation are not.

Quote from: Birdy on May 29, 2013, 09:05:21 AM

Being 100% free doesn't exist. Physics is a regulator you cannot defy.

That's wrong. The stateless are (and have been for a million years) free from police/state/mafia. Some are still stateless and therefore free,
because of their resistance to the mission of the missionaries, the henchmen of the Organised Violence (aka Church and State).

escrow.ms

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Quote from: samson on May 29, 2013, 10:04:33 AM

This reminds me of the saying 'First they came for the......'

I believe this may apply here.

Nobody's doing anything as there is adequate justification for seizing bank accounts based on some spurious petty minded regulations.

When they come for the Bitcoin related services there will be a well established track record enshrined in case law built on seizures like the Dwolla accounts and this Liberty Reserve case.

Agree with you and all the peoples who are thinking bitcoin is untouchable will might cry in future.

I bet all those peoples who are saying "LR deserves to get shutdown, bitcoin case is different" probably doesn't even ever used LR before.

They think only legit peoples are using bitcoins and US govt won't do anything. They are forgetting "Bitcoins" untouchable thinking will attract more cryber criminals and one day US govt will Ban bitcoin related everything in america.

creativex

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Quote from: samson on May 29, 2013, 10:04:33 AM

This reminds me of the saying 'First they came for the......'

I believe this may apply here.

Nobody's doing anything as there is adequate justification for seizing bank accounts based on some spurious petty minded regulations.

When they come for the Bitcoin related services there will be a well established track record enshrined in case law built on seizures like the Dwolla accounts and this Liberty Reserve case.

For a preview of what comes next just watch the movie "Minority Report"...you can't spell pre-crime w/o crime.

samson

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This reminds me of the saying 'First they came for the......'

I believe this may apply here.

Nobody's doing anything as there is adequate justification for seizing bank accounts based on some spurious petty minded regulations.

When they come for the Bitcoin related services there will be a well established track record enshrined in case law built on seizures like the Dwolla accounts and this Liberty Reserve case.

samson

legendary

Activity: 2097

Merit: 1070

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on May 29, 2013, 09:49:48 AM

Quote from: 600watt on May 29, 2013, 09:44:56 AM

this is the guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preet_Bharara

he took down LR and he will aim towards bitcoin.

1) Assuming LibertyReserve was *actively* and *knowingly* engaging in money laundering or whatever illegal activity the government wanted to drum up, then yes, I presume they deserve to be shut down for operating under the guise of a law abiding business and are easily attackable as a consequence.

2) Bitcoin though? What law is being broken by Bitcoin? Why would he 'come after' bitcoin, and much more importantly, how would he? Through the exchanges? See #1 above.

A quote atributed to him on the wiki page :

According to Bharara, after 9/11 “as crime has gone global and national security threats are global, in my view the long arm of the law has to get even longer. We can’t wait until bombs are going off.”

So this guy :

1 Wants to prosecute people outside of his jurisdiction
and
2 Doesn't want to wait until they've commited the crime

To sum it up, he's a prick.

awakening

full member

Activity: 196

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There is a big difference between btc and LR, one is the visible head of a technology and philosophy and the other one is simply a business.
I don't care about LR, but if they crack down into cryptocurrencies maybe is time to start to fight for our rights. Because there is no way I'm gonna allow anyone to rule my life. Or crypto, or dead.

escrow.ms

legendary

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Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on May 29, 2013, 09:49:48 AM

Quote from: 600watt on May 29, 2013, 09:44:56 AM

this is the guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preet_Bharara

he took down LR and he will aim towards bitcoin.

1) Assuming LibertyReserve was *actively* and *knowingly* engaging in money laundering or whatever illegal activity the government wanted to drum up, then yes, I presume they deserve to be shut down for operating under the guise of a law abiding business and are easily attackable as a consequence.

2) Bitcoin though? What law is being broken by Bitcoin? Why would he 'come after' bitcoin, and much more importantly, how would he? Through the exchanges? See #1 above.

There is no proof of libertyreserve's owner or LR as a currency directly being involved in cp and other illegal things. Peoples are using it for illegal things.

Peoples are using bitcoins too and i understand that you guys have too much blind faith in bitcoin but hey are you forgetting about silkroad and other sites on TOR and don't forget that those peoples who were doing illegal deals with LR will move to bitcoin now.

They don't have another choice.

Matthew N. Wright

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Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet

Quote from: 600watt on May 29, 2013, 09:44:56 AM

this is the guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preet_Bharara

he took down LR and he will aim towards bitcoin.

1) Assuming LibertyReserve was *actively* and *knowingly* engaging in money laundering or whatever illegal activity the government wanted to drum up, then yes, I presume they deserve to be shut down for operating under the guise of a law abiding business and are easily attackable as a consequence.

2) Bitcoin though? What law is being broken by Bitcoin? Why would he 'come after' bitcoin, and much more importantly, how would he? Through the exchanges? See #1 above.

600watt

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this is the guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preet_Bharara

he took down LR and he will aim towards bitcoin.

idev

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BTC OG and designer of the BitcoinMarket.com logo

Quote from: worldinacoin on May 29, 2013, 09:20:46 AM

They were linked to child porn among others, I guess this will be something totally unacceptable to the public.

Well HSBC and others was done for similar if not the same things but yet do their customers give a shit.

Rampion

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Quote from: 600watt on May 29, 2013, 07:10:43 AM

(i did post this in another thread, but it applies:)

i fear the LR bust will have bad consequences mid term. the guys that took LR down will make some big career improvments now. they are getting all this media coverage worldwide. they are heros. their self esteem will skyrocket. they are on the trip of their lives. soon the LR guys will be locked up forever. but the feds want more. they don´t want to sober up, they want more of this. they will look out for more prey. yep bitcoin. they don´t care if it´s decentralized. they will go for the exchanges instead. feds always get what they want. always. (always!) the merit will only be greater when they take down bitcoin, since anyone told them it´s impossible. never underestimete over-eager feds.

i think karpeles surely didn´t like the LR bust. he will contact kim dotcom soon...

Cool. Let's them try. They will fail HARD. And we will laugh.

escrow.ms

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Quote from: worldinacoin on May 29, 2013, 09:20:46 AM

They were linked to child porn among others, I guess this will be something totally unacceptable to the public.

Who LR?
probably but, bitcoin is more popular on TOR Deepweb (The hub of child porn).
and yes cp is unacceptable but still peoples are running TOR nodes and helping them.

idev

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BTC OG and designer of the BitcoinMarket.com logo

Quote from: rtt on May 28, 2013, 05:40:21 PM

Quote from: NewLiberty on May 28, 2013, 01:00:50 PM

...if they are guilty of something bad enough, maybe it is good that they are stopped?

They are guilty of NOT being Obedient Snitches.
A grave sin in the eyes of the Government and some commenters on this thread...

Exactly

escrow.ms

legendary

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Quote from: samson on May 29, 2013, 07:26:15 AM

Americans can wire any amount of money they want into MtGox once verified so they aren't being refused.

Yes i know, i was talking about other non US exchangers.

worldinacoin

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They were linked to child porn among others, I guess this will be something totally unacceptable to the public.

samson

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Quote from: worldinacoin on May 29, 2013, 09:06:22 AM

I hate how the major news sites report the incident, they seemed to be instigating that Bitcoin is in cahoots.

I remember reading the same old crap about 18 years ago when the internet started becoming popular.

First they'd talk about the availability of porn on the Web, then a couple of sentences later they were blurring the lines by mentioning underage porn. Of course underage porn is already illegal but that didn't matter.

I notice that every article on the LR thing talks about underage porn - is there really any proof of this or is it intended to induce condemnation by readers ?

What I've noticed over the years is that in order for something to be 'tarnished' it needs to be linked to something nefarious. One way is to put out stories which start talking about one thing and then associate it with something completely different and much worse. These days it's still underage porn but terrorism has been added to the list.

I expect that some day soon a 'terrorist' will be caught using Bitcoin attempting to buy weapons or fund some atrocity. This will probably be an FBI 'sting' operation like the many similar incidents over the past few years whereby some complete 'retard' has been groomed on facebook to buy imaginary weapons from undercover FBI agents. It's only a small stretch to involve Bitcoin in the next bust.

Birdy

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Quote from: worldinacoin on May 29, 2013, 09:06:22 AM

I hate how the major news sites report the incident, they seemed to be instigating that Bitcoin is in cahoots.

Ya :/
A lot of people will think, "Oh Bitcoin!? Wasn't that mentioned with drugs/as ponzi before? Will be down next most likely"

worldinacoin

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I hate how the major news sites report the incident, they seemed to be instigating that Bitcoin is in cahoots.

Birdy

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Activity: 364

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Quote from: Zarathustra on May 29, 2013, 08:30:38 AM

Yes, and that is a joke, but a bad one. Either you're free (self-sufficient Anarchy) or enslaved (Patriarchy). Patriarchy (state/religion) is by definition expanding (always and by definition financed on credit an organised violence).

Because having only black and white is so helpful.
Being 100% free doesn't exist. Physics is a regulator you cannot defy.

Zarathustra

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1004

Quote from: fr33d0miz3r on May 29, 2013, 03:19:47 AM

Quote

No police, no rules, no law...only the strong survive.

Libertarianism is not anarchy. Libertarian system has police and law. But no more.

Yes, and that is a joke, but a bad one. Either you're free (self-sufficient Anarchy) or enslaved (Patriarchy). Patriarchy (state/religion) is by definition expanding (always and by definition financed on credit an organised violence).

Topic: Liberty Reserve shutdown is a boost for Bitcoin? - page 9. (Read 12736 times)