Topic: Lightning Network on Stellar (Read 1524 times)

he use slack chat, or you can try forum, the link below


here take a look

Why dont u visit BitcoinTalk more frequently?

Hey, thanks a lot! Always great to have help from an old-timer.

As I hope I got across, I think that crypto-2.0 platforms with Asset functionality will come into their own as hubs for Graneen--style networks of crowdfunding - using equity instead of loans. Like the original Graneen Bank, the network wold consist of would-be small business owners getting funding to buy very small businesses - convenience stores, dollar stores, small restaurants, nail salons, etc. - and then "paying it forward" by crowdfunding folks they trust when they get established.

The beauty of that above-mentioned private issuer exemption is that Canada already has the legal framework for that kind of network: a huge, country-spanning decentralized network of small businesspeople and the folks around them helping each other to become small businesspeople. Because of that exemption a crowdfundee can sell real equity in the store: there's no need for any "fee-share" fol-de-rol. It's actually a surprising advantage my home country has over the U.S., even if the distributed equity is deliberately designed to be illiquid as well as small-scale.

Again, thanks and best wishes.    

This will get you started: https://www.stellar.org/developers/learn/concepts/assets.html
You can also jump in our slack channel and ask questions: slack.stellar.org

Okay, thanks. Is there any how-to guide to do so, preferably step-by-step?

In Stellar it is possible for the issuer of an asset to set who can hold the asset. So technically what you would do is just give permission to the set of 50 people you want to allow to hold shares in the company. They could buy and sell among themselves freely but couldn't transfer the shares to anyone outside of this set. You would need to set up something for authorizing people to hold shares but you will have to do this regardless.

Thanks for the answer.


Yes, any crowdfund would have to be limited to 50 people. The link I supplied in my question gives a plain-language version of the part of the securities laws in my jurisdiction that allow for a "private-issuer exemption": an exemption from filling out a lot of paperwork & shelling out a lot of fees to one or more lawyers (if you get my drift.) As the link explained, there are also special restrictions on selling the shares too: you need the assent of either the board of directors or the majority of shareholders.

I could throw together something like this in the Horizon system or the system of its parent, Nxt. But the trouble is, the nodes do not enforce those restrictions automatically. That's no real biggie, legally, as I could throw together a special restricted wallet that would block any sell order from a stakeholder and throw together a "sign-your-life-away" document in which the crowdfunders and the crowdfundee agree in writing to only use the restricted "crowdfund wallet" to buy and sell any crowfund shares. Heck, I could even use Factom to blockchain-verify that each participant did sign his/her life away. This is "legally elegant" in that my arse would be covered.

But it's not technologically elegant, which means that my case would be less strong if a securities-regulator enforcement agent came a'callin'. "So what you have here is essentially an honour system, backed up by those signed pledges not to use the standard wallet interface." Any regulator worth his/her salt would immediately see "honour system" as meaning "loophole-ridden", and start drawing up a little list of additional paperwork requirements to keep a lid on those loopholes (if you get my drift.)

Contrast that with a build-in enforcer, one that would automatically reject an illicit transaction as if it were a double-spend. Then, the regulator would prepare a different list, namely: "What tests can we conduct to verify that an illegal transaction would in fact be rejected by the system?" Once the system passes those tests, the regulator would be assured that the paperwork is built into the system - i.e., that there's no regulatory paperwork needed: consequently, there's no need to alter or tighten up the private-issuer exemption.

Just take a moment and think of what the latter case entails. Imagine a system of crowdfunding for Canada that truthfully promises this:

 

That's the point behind my above wall-of-text. If you know any Canadians, you'll understand 

oaxaca: That's right other assets or currencies in Stellar are backed by some institution so you have to trust that institution but the internal currency "Lumens" is like bitcoin. It is trustless.

It's not.  You have to trust an institution aka a gateway in Stellar.

"backed by some institution" doesn't sound trustless to me.

The bitcoin on Stellar will have to be backed by some institution. So it will be a safe as putting it in coinbase or wherever. But yeah the transactions will be off of the blockchain so will reduce pressure.

If we use Stellar to send bitcoin, how safe is our bitcoin? Will that reduce the pressure on the bitcoin block chain if we transact bitcoin on other chains?

No that is the beauty of lightning is that you can keep the off chain transactions decentralized.
This post was about making lightning transactions work for the stellar network though. But you can use Stellar to send around bitcoin so it could work for bitcoin as well.

For the off-chain transactions for bitcoin, is that a centralised system? Just like you use visa credit card to process your transactions?

Nxtblg:  Yeah you could set this up with Stellar.

The crowdfund is limited to only 50 people?

Awesome question by Nxtblg. Watching this topic.

Read through the idea, really interesting stuff. Will keep my eye on it.

Hey, jed: Your OP & blogpost jogged my mind into putting this question to you:

Canada, my home country, has an exemption for small privately-held corporations that allows them to raise capital without recourse to a prospectus (i.e., without that paperwork.) To qualify, the Canadian corporation has to meet these criteria:

1 It has to be private and unlisted on any exchange;
2 It has to have fewer than 50 shareholders;
3. No shareholder is allowed to sell or transfer his/her shares without the affirmative consent of either the board of directors or a majority of the shareholders. E.g., if a private corporation has 20 shareholders, noe of them can sell their shares without an explicit "okay" from at least 11 of the current shareholders.

If a corporation meets all these criteria, it can crowdfund legally in Canada. Although securities regulation is a provincial power, all the provincial securities regulators in Canada have this exemption. The Ontario Securities Commission's explanation is almost certainly canonical: https://www.osc.gov.on.ca/en/21947.htm

Now here's the question for ya: Does Stellar's platform as it is now, make it feasible to not only crowdfund under this exemption but also assure that the corporation abide by the conditions - i.e., to heed the relevant law instead of trying to sneak around it? In particular, condition #3? 

Yeah this would work for bitcoin but also for any other currency.

In general, I like the idea of off-chain transactions for Bitcoins.  Hopefully you guys formally propose it and get it officially implemented.