Topic: Loan 782.1 BTC. To pay 2.3% interest per month. or 800 BTC (Read 2787 times)

Well.... my GB has sort of stalled. I refunded 3 people in full.

However, look at what happened to the others: one bought his batch first. He sold a bunch. The other major one in Germany is up to 5 batches now.

Imagine if I had gotten this loan, I probably would have paid you back by now with the stated interest.

Oh well ... ... Still hoping someone has the coins to make this happen.

Thanks. I tried. I am not losing hope until the end of May 31, 2013 (as that is the deadline I proposed). Pending of course, if people, particularly the buyers who paid most, want it to continue.

I think many of us (including myself) would love a loan of that size. If I had that kind of money I could build a hell of a farm, or even start building the devices I don't have the money to build.

Good luck getting a single person to donate that kind of money. If anything you need to get people to just get in on a group buy with you and donate to any projects you're trying to do.

Just in case someone is interested.

You can confirm the orders I'm getting here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1FX53aWhBzZuCfsG1mE3zor5fCdWNceHRs

You will notice that one guy bought his chips first, then started selling them, and he finished a batch already. That's exactly what I wanted to do. The other guy from Europe managed to fill up a batch with no money of his own. I'm just starting. Asians are shy maybe?

BTW, at this point, if you lend me, you only need to lend me 782.1 - 57 = 725.1 with interest rate adjusted appropriately. So the sooner someone lends me, the bigger the interest he will get back later.

Status: One customer with 240 chips or 20.64 BTC.

Well, the one in Australia and the one in Netherlands seems to have backed out. Their respective "founders" bought chips from other group buys. Unfortunately, not mine. Which leaves 3 of us left.

There are fabricators and assemblers and other DIY types near both locations, so ... we'll see in a few days if this picks up or not. Loan offer is still open, in case others are interested (or in case the two of you change your minds.)

To get it started? heheh.. I figure, if I can't get a loan, I could get a shill. hehehe.. sorry, had to try. Really though, if you do that, that would be a big help. It's like I took a smaller loan or something.

The fly guy.. I dunno about that too. Sounds fishy to me.

  What's the purpose of placing an order if I'm bound to ask for a refund later?

that flyonthewall guy ??

yeah.. goodluck with that.............

Once I get 9000 chip orders, you are free to ask for a refund. I will send you back your coins. (Hopefully, no one else asks for a refund and I get all 10,000 chip orders.)

Nah, not interested in any miners atm as I'm going to the States later this year. I'll reply to your PM shortly - I'm blasted with a ton of PM's atm.

Since you're in Malaysia, want to start with an order? Only 10 chips minimum. The dude in Thailand or Indonesia can then do some magic on it and make it a working miner. Your own personal order might be what I need as opposed to an outright loan.

I know, I was just joking about the M1911. 

Yes, I agree to your points as having a chip order in will significantly increase potential buy-ins. As for the website issue, I guess I can pull that off successfully as I do have enough rep for that - indeed I've been getting queries for me to organize a group buy too. (PS: I can't do that as I don't have extra time, sorry!)

Anyway I see that you have the potential to succeed here as you're willing to essentially dox yourself, and seem to have thought out your plans completely. Best of luck! 

I sell the chips for 0.086 still. I bought the chips in BTC. I sell it in BTC. That's the beauty of this thing from Avalon, they only accept BTC as payment. In fact, they have a formula for calculating the price of their working units based on difficulty, hashing power, and predicted ROI. They want you, to make back you investment, in 1 month of using their stand-alone unit, you know, the desktop sized thing that does 60 GH/s.

So you can't compare it to dollars, unlike BFL that accepts payment in dollars. (Avalon did accept dollars as payment for their first batch, but beginning with batch 2 and the chips, they only accept bitcoins.)

If the price of BTC doubles, the chip suddenly is more expensive, relative to the dollar. But it is the same value in bitcoins.
If the price of BTC goes down, the chip can be bought more cheaply, by buying BTC using your dollars.

Again, I'm not taking a loan in any fiat amount. I'm taking a loan in bitcoins. Because what I am buying is only priced in bitcoins. The manufacturer does not give a fiat price at all. (Maybe that could be a problem for them.)

I could attempt to sell a working miner for heaps more, but no one is going to believe that when there are several open source projects going on now. A lot of people have learned their lesson too, buying pre-order units 10 months ago, and today have nothing still.

I don't know about the chips, but it seems everyone is expecting the chips to arrive.

If I wanted to borrow in fiat, I'd go to a fiat based bank. I did. I'm getting a couple million peso business loan, at 1% interest rate per month, payable in 1 year. Revolving. Line of credit. But my business makes clothes that I sell for pesos. I pay my employees in pesos. I'm keeping fiat based business separate from this bitcoin based venture.

Maybe later on I can convince the board of the fiat based business to accept bitcoins as payment, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

All loans, even in BTC, are gambles. You are betting that the other guy will be able to pay you back. I've tried to make my case, otherwise if I could afford it I'd do the jump starting myself.

At least I tried. I know some people are holding much more than 782.1 BTC. Some are looking to find a way to make more coins with what they have. Some just don't care and will simply hold. And there are some who will gamble it on a game of chance.

I've shown that this gamble is much better than the popular gamble where you can bet 500 BTC and win 600 back within 30 seconds. But you can also lose there.

You can lose here as well, but at least you know who you can run after (me), and he has something that could be worth it to someone else (chips.)




I want to order the chips, so
1. The lead time for the delivery starts now, not when I've collected the amount. Saves time. Chips get here before others. Everyone is racing to make working miners.
2. The buyers are more likely to order from me (even those outside of our geographical area) knowing I already have the chips. (Note Zefir, who bought outright.)

I think someone did start a website (also in the Custom Hardware forum) but everyone is calling him a scammer, complaining about overpriced chips. Maybe he priced it too high, so he's not getting any. We don't know that for sure because it's a website and not a group buy where every order is public record.

I'm confident there will be enough buyers even if the Group Buys are separated by countries or areas. We will see later on.

The weapon wasn't meant to scare you. It was meant to assure you (and the buyers) that I can and will protect their investment. (self-defense and all that, I like reading about the United States Constitution and their drama about their 2nd amendment.)

Thank you Justin and John for seriously looking at my proposal. At least, it tells me that I'm doing something in these forums right. I'm hoping someone else is going to see this. If not, well, ... I think I'll find out after May 1 (or after the holidays, since that date is a holiday in many parts of the world.)

Replied via PM, and I'm going to decline respectfully.

I have the BTC on hand and not planning to convert to fiat soon (that kicks the BTC/USD issue Justin said), but a major problem is not covered adequately: What if there's no buyers for the chips? Group buys are popping up furiously, and the potential buyers are going to be limited. With the risks and headache involved, I'm better off setting up a website and start selling chips at high markups, thus eliminating multiple risks.

The 3% is totally undoable without collateral or any secured means of obtaining my principal back. I don't want to be collecting from someone with a M1911 24/7. 

Best of luck with your group buy endeavors - by the way why do you want to order the chips before any orders are in? 

I've read your PM and appreciate the detailed info.. To many variables for me unfortunately.... I'll have to give it a miss.  The main one is gambling with that much BTC/USD.

I'll be honest originally when I was interested I thought you could sell the chips for heaps more than 0.08, I thought you were just being nice and selling them cheap. I didn't relies heaps of other people were selling them (for around the same price I'm guessing?).

You do sound like you have it thought out pretty well and have an extensive list of options which ensure you couldn't just run off. I'm sure who ever takes you up on this should make some easy money.  

Just one last question... I know you don't seem to want to talk about $/BTC.. but if 1 BTC = $140 today.. and you sell for 0.08 which is $11 or so..
Lets just say the price of BTC doubles.. you then sell the chips for 0.04.. how would you be able to pay back the 800BTC ?
You could pay back the same amount of USD the person lent you today, but you wouldn't be able to pay back to the BTC value.
Obviously if it drops in price thats no problem.. but I imagine people don't get into trouble when the price drops

 

Hello Dabs,

That is an extensive list of documents to verify. I am finishing my qualifications to examine documents. I would be happy to assist you and the lender to close this deal. I can help to compose the agreement and endorse the conditions after I verified all the necessary requirements. If both parties want to keep their private details undisclosed to each other, I can hold personal and confidential data in escrow in accordance with the agreement conditions.

Drop me a message if you need any help.

I also know at least two friends (who know me personally) that are in the Customs Brokerage business. They facilitate getting stuff into or out of the country. I should have no problems there though, even on my own. I just have to show up in my uniform when I claim the chips, if in case it does not get delivered directly to me. Most government officials don't ask questions when even a young officer shows up.

Also, if you do lend me the bitcoins, I'm willing to let you do the collecting. That way, you have all the coins the buyers are paying. Suddenly, you are in a position to not pay me my share when you've collected for all 10,000 chips.

I will be using the block chain as proof of accounting. It's already there.

We can work out something. You are comparing BTC to USD, when it's completely out of the picture. For all you know, in 10 weeks time, the value of BTC could go up again (it likely will). It can also go down, of course.

There is considerable risk with me handling the chips. 10,000 chips will be at one location. I have to secure that, don't I? Thus the guns and the goons. I just need someone to supply the gold.

Also, have you seen the demand? This is just the beginning. In our forums alone, 60k chips are going through one person in Switzerland, 10k from another in the US, and possibly 20k or 30k from within Europe. Outside of this, there is an estimated 500k chips from all other sources inclusive of what I just mentioned. One batch got done in less than a week.

Again, you are free to start your own group buy. You take care of all the logistics and the sorting and the final shipping and the taxes and the customs and the dealing with the local government and all that.

You try borrowing $100k in a US bank, and let me know what rate they will give you. Or you try investing $100k in a US bank, like a Time Deposit or similar, and let me know how much interest they will offer. It is probably measure Per Annum. Or 360 days.

If you are interested, and you have the coins (or the $), I'm sure we can work out a higher percentage if that's what you want.

Worst case, I resell the chips at cost and give you back all your bitcoins. Unlikely though.

hmmm what happens if no one does end up wanting the chips ? Which isn't likely.. but the question still needs to be asked.

*edit* just did the maths. No offense but not a very good deal.. Someone puts up $100k (721 x $138) and gets back $2500 (18 x $138)
While you make ~$10k and basically have no risk (as you aren't the one down $100k). I or anyone else interested in this would be much better off just buying the chips ourselves and selling.  Again don't mean to offend.. just stating my opinion

Also if for some reason no one wants to buy the 10k chips, you putting them up as collateral would be useless for the person lending. wtf would they do with 10k chips if no one wants them.

Best of luck