LocalBitcoins Cash-in-person trades removed? - page 2.

malevolent

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Quote from: illyiller on June 06, 2019, 04:25:24 PM

It sounds like these services should consider segregating their EU customers from everyone else. Run a second platform and prohibit EU customers from the main one.
It's either that, or continue degrading services for everyone across the globe. Undecided

I wish they'd just move to a friendlier jurisdiction. What's their breaking point?

illyiller

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It sounds like these services should consider segregating their EU customers from everyone else. Run a second platform and prohibit EU customers from the main one.

It's either that, or continue degrading services for everyone across the globe. Undecided

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Quote from: squatter on June 06, 2019, 02:55:55 PM

Quote from: LeGaulois on June 06, 2019, 01:20:37 PM

It's a matter of time before the same change appears on Paxful

I thought the same thing at first, but apparently this wasn't done in response to EU or US regulations. Localbitcoins said the removal of cash trades was done to comply with new Finnish regulations. They operate from Finland.

Paxful appears to operate from the US, so I don't see them removing cash trades based on this.

Finland is in Europe and all European countries obey to Europe regulations/directives and create their laws accordingly. Each law may be different since it's adapted to the country but the goal is the same: following EU directives, otherwise, the country can receive a fine from Brussels.

If Paxful is in The US. it may be prohibited to operate with Europe and therefore refuse or block certain functions to European citizens. In much the same way that some trading platforms prohibit access for American citizens (and sometimes just a few states in the US)

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Quote from: squatter on June 06, 2019, 02:55:55 PM

I thought the same thing at first, but apparently this wasn't done in response to EU or US regulations. Localbitcoins said the removal of cash trades was done to comply with new Finnish regulations. They operate from Finland.

New Finnish regulations were enacted to comply with 5AMLD:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32018L0843
https://complyadvantage.com/blog/5mld-fifth-anti-money-laundering-directive/

squatter

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Quote from: LeGaulois on June 06, 2019, 01:20:37 PM

It's a matter of time before the same change appears on Paxful

I thought the same thing at first, but apparently this wasn't done in response to EU or US regulations. Localbitcoins said the removal of cash trades was done to comply with new Finnish regulations. They operate from Finland.

Paxful appears to operate from the US, so I don't see them removing cash trades based on this.

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Quote from: countryfree on June 05, 2019, 07:31:28 PM

This is suicide.

I haven't been using LocalBitcoins much, but only to make Cash-in-person trades. If it's no longer possible, I won't use LocalBitcoins any more.

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

Bitcoin.com launched its own local.bitcoin.com. I thought it was a joke at first, but not at all. I have visited the offers there and I can say that there are not many either, maybe because it is the beginning, but the site really lacks functionality too. Too simple UI, and if I'm correct, only Btrash can be used

@figmentofmyass
It's a matter of time before the same change appears on Paxful

@eternalgloom
Some services (wallets/exchanges mainly) don't allow their users to receive bitcoin from gambling/casino/poker/etc websites. In the example, Coinbase.

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Quote from: countryfree on June 05, 2019, 07:31:28 PM

This is suicide.

I haven't been using LocalBitcoins much, but only to make Cash-in-person trades. If it's no longer possible, I won't use LocalBitcoins any more.

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

Why so? I believe you did not use the localbitcoins.com itseems.

They have signed with the european law agreement last itself and then to stay as a gentle trader on LBC you need to show the KYC details to them. I was using LBC around 2 years they are very much secured.

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Quote from: thehun on June 04, 2019, 11:23:24 AM

And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

What the hell, how do you know that they wouldn't send them back if you'd gotten them from gambling or mining?
That seems a little bit worrisome, that they would keep the coins in those cases.

Damn, reason enough for me to not use LBC anymore.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: countryfree on June 05, 2019, 07:31:28 PM

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

there was a pretty comprehensive list mentioned earlier in the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/b2wj6k/p2p_exchanges_eg_localbitcoins_bisq_hodlhodl/

nothing compares to localbitcoins though, not even close. the next biggest service offering in-person cash listings seems to be paxful. im in the USA and there's less than 10 listings (to sell for cash in person) across the entire country! a few more have popped since localbitcoins removed the option, but still......

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This is suicide.

I haven't been using LocalBitcoins much, but only to make Cash-in-person trades. If it's no longer possible, I won't use LocalBitcoins any more.

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

squatter

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Quote from: thehun on June 04, 2019, 11:23:24 AM

After I complied with these requests I got this one:

And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

That's horrible. LocalBitcoins seems equivalent to Bitstamp now regarding AML/KYC -- and that says something. I don't trust these European companies anymore. I'm going to advise people against ever using LocalBitcoins because like you said, in many cases people won't be able to provide the necessary proof in these cases.

malevolent

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Quote from: thehun on June 04, 2019, 11:23:24 AM

And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

I knew they sometimes blocked accounts they suspected of being hacked/hijacked, but this kind of intrusiveness, even before the relevant EU directive has come into law, is something I wouldn't have suspected them of engaging in.

Quote from: shield132 on June 04, 2019, 02:23:36 PM

Not the end because you know, there will be always different and difficult ways because there is demand and supply, this both works in synergy against difficulties which are set baffle them.
Btw if anyone knows, were there reports of some crime/murders and robbing when trading bitcoin cash-in-person? Will be interesting to know if this was the reason of removing this option.

This is the reason: https://twitter.com/LocalBitcoins/status/1135872083962081281

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 02, 2019, 12:04:10 AM

wow, it's the end of an era. localbitcoins p2p cash trades were the bomb a few years ago. i can't say specifically what is triggering this, but it seems like localbitcoins is just getting increasingly rigid with the AML/KYC stuff.

p2p cash trades were a way to avoid the escrow system and therefore KYC so i'm not surprised they've been removed. sucks though. Undecided

Quote from: DebitMe on June 01, 2019, 11:44:30 PM

My current analysis of the legality is that it is highly illegal to sell bitcoins as a business in the US, and anyone attempting to do so should be very cautious.

not true. you need to register as an MSB and carefully comply with AML/KYC and currency reporting regulations though.

Not the end because you know, there will be always different and difficult ways because there is demand and supply, this both works in synergy against difficulties which are set baffle them.
Btw if anyone knows, were there reports of some crime/murders and robbing when trading bitcoin cash-in-person? Will be interesting to know if this was the reason of removing this option.

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Quote from: malevolent on June 04, 2019, 10:05:29 AM

Quote from: thehun on June 04, 2019, 06:34:15 AM

Wow, this is really sad. But I can't really say it was unexpected. LBC recently started implementing KYC and in some cases (like mine) they were even making some very intrusive questions about source of funds and such. I had my crypto locked in there for over 2 weeks until it finally got released.

Can you post what questions they asked you?

From what you're saying I don't think we'll be getting in-person cash trades back. They're acting like a regular exchange now.

I opened a thread at the time, here it is:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/localbitcoins-freezing-accounts-for-no-reason-and-no-response-from-support-4662474

This is the reply they sent me after I opened a ticket:

After I complied with these requests I got this one:

And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

malevolent

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Quote from: thehun on June 04, 2019, 06:34:15 AM

Wow, this is really sad. But I can't really say it was unexpected. LBC recently started implementing KYC and in some cases (like mine) they were even making some very intrusive questions about source of funds and such. I had my crypto locked in there for over 2 weeks until it finally got released.

Can you post what questions they asked you?

From what you're saying I don't think we'll be getting in-person cash trades back. They're acting like a regular exchange now.

thehun

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Wow, this is really sad. But I can't really say it was unexpected. LBC recently started implementing KYC and in some cases (like mine) they were even making some very intrusive questions about source of funds and such. I had my crypto locked in there for over 2 weeks until it finally got released. Needless to say I stopped using LBC right after that happened (I did do some face to face trades without using the escrow with a few trusted members though, until now they were allowed to publish their phone # or Telegram contact so the deal could be closed over there).

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 02, 2019, 09:30:36 PM

Quote from: LeGaulois on June 02, 2019, 02:24:17 PM

@figmentofmyass As for an alternative, Paxful is the only one I'm aware of. All others have a so low users base.

that's super depressing. the closest listing is several hundred miles away from me.

is there just no interest in p2p cash trading anymore? i'm hoping now that localbitcoins has axed the option that some traders will head to paxful. soon enough, paxful will probably remove the option too.

No dude, people are mainly interested to get money on their bank account. Add to that the fact that most people hold, trade or place a bet on an ICO... Me too I wish more people buy/sell with people face to face, no kyc/aml/taxes...
I was thinking if websites like Backpage could become an alternative for people who want to trade in person.

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Quote from: malevolent on June 02, 2019, 03:13:58 PM

Quite a disappointment if it's not a mistake on their part. In-person cash trades were the reason to use localbitcoins over exchanges, for security and privacy reasons.

Face-to-face cash trades in a safe location are also the safest way of exchanging BTC for cash, there's no worrying that the person sending fiat money via a bank transfer, PP, whatever has hacked someone's account to make the transfer.

Very disappointing indeed.

Quote from: DebitMe on June 02, 2019, 08:21:04 PM

I am not sure what you mean by, "safe harbor"? Could you elaborate or point to what law your talking about?

I was referring to section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, but after reviewing the law, it only provides protection against civil cases, and does not affect criminal cases. I don't believe any AML related law would apply to LocalBitcoins as a website, at least not in the US; there are AML related laws that do apply to their users.

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Quote from: LeGaulois on June 02, 2019, 02:24:17 PM

@figmentofmyass As for an alternative, Paxful is the only one I'm aware of. All others have a so low users base.

that's super depressing. the closest listing is several hundred miles away from me.

is there just no interest in p2p cash trading anymore? i'm hoping now that localbitcoins has axed the option that some traders will head to paxful. soon enough, paxful will probably remove the option too.

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on June 02, 2019, 01:16:40 AM

Quote from: DebitMe on June 02, 2019, 12:24:00 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on June 02, 2019, 12:02:19 AM

Quote from: DebitMe on June 01, 2019, 11:44:30 PM

I know there have been crackdowns by the US government regarding money laundering, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they are afraid of eventual consequences on them and are just getting out in front of it. My current analysis of the legality is that it is highly illegal to sell bitcoins as a business in the US, and anyone attempting to do so should be very cautious.

In some cases, selling bitcoins for cash may be illegal in the US, but this wouldn’t make hosting ads for this illegal due to safe harbor laws. There are some ways selling bitcoins for cash would not break the law but I don’t want to be giving anyone anything that could be construed as blanket legal advice. You can also obtain various licenses and maintain specific records and be selling bitcoins for cash in large volumes completely legally.

I agree, with the proper paperwork it would be legal, but it would get very expensive very quickly for a single man operation. Back when I sold, and over the course of 3 years sold more than 6 million dollars worth, it would have just been worth it to go down that route. Unfortunately, my supple of coins dried up at that point and I could not continue, but the point is that a very small group of people this would work for. I would imagine LBC is just getting out ahead and not wanting to get into legal trouble.

I am fairly certain that local bitcoins has safe harbor in the US so long as they are not considered a publisher under US law. They could give resources to traders to help them follow and comply with the law.

I don’t think the “online” traders will see things much differently in terms of the law.

I like trading face to face because my privacy is increased as there isn’t a paper trail. I am doing everything by the book so to speak including paying all my taxes, but I don’t like a lot of prying eyes knowing my business.

I am not sure what you mean by, "safe harbor"? Could you elaborate or point to what law your talking about?

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