Lost Bitcoins | Bitcointalksearch.org

ANTIcentralized

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 21, 2014, 11:26:00 AM

Quote from: lucasjkr on October 21, 2014, 11:03:22 AM

Quote from: ekstremista on October 20, 2014, 05:48:19 PM

What about that guy whose bitcoins were on a dead hard disk discarded into a landfill? That's 7500 BTC right there, as I recall.

It's interesting that lost bitcoins can likely never be recovered. That seems like additional deflationary pressure over time.

They can't ever be proven as lost either. You just need to trust someones word that they lost their coins. Unless coins are sent to an address for which no corresponding private key could be generated, there's really no way to verify that coins whether coins are lost or if coins could be declared "lost" in an attempt to manipulate the value of the remaining coins (in an extreme instance). The economy shouldn't attempt to "reprice" bitcoin in an attempt to account for coin losses.

True, we will not ever know the accurate numbers. We can guess "at least half" of the BTC still exist (for example), but there will always be a mysterious uncertainty about the actual supply.

The only bitcoin that is truly "lost" are the bitcoin that was sent to outputs that are not able to be spent, for example bitcoin sent to an address that is valid but has no valid private key.

It would be possible to recover any bitcoin in the future via forensics as forensic technology is evolving and would be potentially be possible to recover a lost private key that one existed on a computer but is not "gone"

pitham1

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What about bitcoins destroyed in "Proof of Burn"?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_burn

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Quote from: btcxyzzz on October 21, 2014, 11:27:08 AM

Quote from: Inedible on October 20, 2014, 05:22:23 PM

I'd like to create a definitive list of lost Bitcoins.

It's ridiculous if you think it's possible to do, especially this way.

By definitive, I mean the best source, not that everything listed will be absolutely confirmed lost (as there's no way to do this).

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Quote from: teukon on October 21, 2014, 10:45:14 AM

Quote from: Inedible on October 21, 2014, 09:48:35 AM

Quote from: The Hacker known as 4chan on October 20, 2014, 06:56:34 PM

I remember this thread from awhile ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-add-up-the-known-lost-bitcoins-7253

That thread might be of some use if your going to honestly sit down and try to track each address. I would make a share on google docs maybe so we all can edit

That's the actual thread I'm referring to (juuuuust over 20 Bitcoin). Google docs spreadsheet is a good idea. I'll get that done.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/166lXkfm_FeaNPvJI40rZjd-7e_k9_g_h8cXB4XdXmTY

The format of that thread is of a running total. The 20.0001 BTC figure was simply used as an example of how SgtSpike wanted posters to report their lost bitcoins. They're up to 134 582.378 646 59 BTC, just over 1% of the total current bitcoin supply.

Hadn't realised it was still being updated. It looked like OP hadn't updated for a while.

btcxyzzz

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Quote from: Inedible on October 20, 2014, 05:22:23 PM

I'd like to create a definitive list of lost Bitcoins.

It's ridiculous if you think it's possible to do, especially this way.

Bit_Happy

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Quote from: lucasjkr on October 21, 2014, 11:03:22 AM

Quote from: ekstremista on October 20, 2014, 05:48:19 PM

What about that guy whose bitcoins were on a dead hard disk discarded into a landfill? That's 7500 BTC right there, as I recall.

It's interesting that lost bitcoins can likely never be recovered. That seems like additional deflationary pressure over time.

They can't ever be proven as lost either. You just need to trust someones word that they lost their coins. Unless coins are sent to an address for which no corresponding private key could be generated, there's really no way to verify that coins whether coins are lost or if coins could be declared "lost" in an attempt to manipulate the value of the remaining coins (in an extreme instance). The economy shouldn't attempt to "reprice" bitcoin in an attempt to account for coin losses.

True, we will not ever know the accurate numbers. We can guess "at least half" of the BTC still exist (for example), but there will always be a mysterious uncertainty about the actual supply.

lucasjkr

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Quote from: ekstremista on October 20, 2014, 05:48:19 PM

What about that guy whose bitcoins were on a dead hard disk discarded into a landfill? That's 7500 BTC right there, as I recall.

It's interesting that lost bitcoins can likely never be recovered. That seems like additional deflationary pressure over time.

They can't ever be proven as lost either. You just need to trust someones word that they lost their coins. Unless coins are sent to an address for which no corresponding private key could be generated, there's really no way to verify that coins whether coins are lost or if coins could be declared "lost" in an attempt to manipulate the value of the remaining coins (in an extreme instance). The economy shouldn't attempt to "reprice" bitcoin in an attempt to account for coin losses.

teukon

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Quote from: Inedible on October 21, 2014, 09:48:35 AM

Quote from: The Hacker known as 4chan on October 20, 2014, 06:56:34 PM

I remember this thread from awhile ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-add-up-the-known-lost-bitcoins-7253

That thread might be of some use if your going to honestly sit down and try to track each address. I would make a share on google docs maybe so we all can edit

That's the actual thread I'm referring to (juuuuust over 20 Bitcoin). Google docs spreadsheet is a good idea. I'll get that done.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/166lXkfm_FeaNPvJI40rZjd-7e_k9_g_h8cXB4XdXmTY

The format of that thread is of a running total. The 20.0001 BTC figure was simply used as an example of how SgtSpike wanted posters to report their lost bitcoins. They're up to 134 582.378 646 59 BTC, just over 1% of the total current bitcoin supply.

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Quote from: yenzae0215 on October 20, 2014, 10:51:37 PM

i think there's nothing we can do for those bitcoins lost so what the list is for?

The list is purely for information/fun/facts.

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Quote from: factor280 on October 20, 2014, 10:40:13 PM

I lost about 1/4 of a bitcoin when bitcoin first came out, computer crashed and I did not have it backed up :/

Don't suppose you can add that to: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/166lXkfm_FeaNPvJI40rZjd-7e_k9_g_h8cXB4XdXmTY

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Quote from: ytr8 on October 20, 2014, 10:09:38 PM

Does the coins was really lost ??
i lost my a little on C-CEX because of my careless,Click the' dump' button,but i don't think that it really lost.

I don't know what the 'dump' button is but for the purposes of this database, a Bitcoin is lost when access to the wallet is no longer possible by anyone.

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Quote from: bigasic on October 20, 2014, 07:23:38 PM

It would be impossible to get a good figure. but, rest assured, there are thousands of lost coins. Like someone already said that at the beginning they just "messed" around with it to get the code, plus at the beginning, bitcoins werent worth anything, so there wasn't a real need to save any. I think most people really started to save them when they had a value, i believe it was around 60 cents on mt.gox, Im just guessing. I've heard many stories of early miners "forgetting" about the coins and have no idea where they are and others that have spent days looking for them. Some with success. But, I bet more coins have been stolen than those that were just lost at the beginning. The first theft that I heard of was around in the summer of 2011, the guy had 500k worth of coins stolen and thats when btc was just at a few dollars, I believe he committed suicide.

But, it would be interesting to know the "Exact" amount that are missing. I think when we see a massive dump is possibly due to a thief dumping his coins. Mt. gox has a few hundred k gone, the numbers could actually be quite big...(which is actually good, less coins should raise the value I think) But, we better get more secure or the threat of loss because of theft will deter many people from adopting.

I doubt we'll ever get to an exact figure and I reckon this is why this database will upset purists. People want definite numbers. They want certainty but this isn't going to be possible. At best, this will be an approximation of lost coins.

It could be said that a lot of currently non-lost wallets will be lost over time because the people that own them will eventually forget about them or when they die, they haven't made provision for access to their next of kin. They'll never spend another Bitcent from that wallet but it's not yet 'lost' until they've passed on. This will result in the value of 'lost' Bitcoins being rather uncertain.

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on October 20, 2014, 07:06:10 PM

This is never going to be remotely accurate. I am sure there will be reports from scam artists, trolls , or just people wanting to avoid taxes claiming "lost" bitcoins.

Quote from: allthingsluxury on October 20, 2014, 07:15:22 PM

This list is going to be incredibly hard to have accurate. Good luck none the less.

I think it's going to be difficult but hopefully we can lower the risk of false claims with dates and checking for new outbound transactions since the date of when the wallet was 'lost'.

Inedible

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Quote from: The Hacker known as 4chan on October 20, 2014, 06:56:34 PM

I remember this thread from awhile ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-add-up-the-known-lost-bitcoins-7253

That thread might be of some use if your going to honestly sit down and try to track each address. I would make a share on google docs maybe so we all can edit

That's the actual thread I'm referring to (juuuuust over 20 Bitcoin). Google docs spreadsheet is a good idea. I'll get that done.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/166lXkfm_FeaNPvJI40rZjd-7e_k9_g_h8cXB4XdXmTY

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https://docs.google.com/a/ij.hk/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahdy3Je_nYdOdFVocm4yTzhZOW1waWd6SFJIVHUwYUE#gid=0

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Quote from: Balkhole on October 20, 2014, 06:14:50 PM

It is really not possible to know for sure that any amount of bitcoin is lost as the only way that we "know" bitcoin is lost is when someone says as so, however it is really not possible to ever be able to confirm this.

This is true and that's why I think I'll include two dates to the database.

One to specify when the last outbound activity was and one to specify when it was reported.

If it's ever noticed that there's outbound activity then we know those coins aren't lost and it can be removed from the list.

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Quote from: franky1 on October 20, 2014, 06:05:22 PM

it is presumed that the first couple hundred blocks from genesis were done with throw away wallets, they kept changing addresses and playing around with the code and thus the amounts satoshi has physical access to is far far far less than people expect.

while its hard to calculate how many addresses he discarded as part of his testing, it also becomes hard to get a definite amount of lost bitcoins as many would not want to admit their stupidity of bad back up processes or ignorance that bitcoin would ever kick off from the early days.

so whole alot of people are shouting out small numbers.. the reality could be much larger

It would be interesting if someone had the addresses for the initial blocks but these are probably indistinguishable from Shatoshi's accessible loot.

I can see that people won't want to admit to mistakes but I hope this could still be a useful resource for the community at the end of the day.

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Quote from: ekstremista on October 20, 2014, 05:48:19 PM

What about that guy whose bitcoins were on a dead hard disk discarded into a landfill? That's 7500 BTC right there, as I recall.

It's interesting that lost bitcoins can likely never be recovered. That seems like additional deflationary pressure over time.

I guess we'll have to leave those off the list unless we can have an address to go with it. The address is a requirement to confirm that a) there are indeed that quantity of Bitcoin lost and b) that the coins are likely lost (i.e. they've never moved since they were on the list).

I hope those Bitcoin really can never be recovered because if they can, it means people can recover coins from our wallets.

There will be deflationary pressure over time from lost Bitcoin alone but it should be small for a long time to come.

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on October 20, 2014, 05:43:32 PM

why does it matter? whether it was 20, 200 or 2000 coins lost, it's a small percentage. I don't see the point of making a list.

To know if it was a small percentage, I guess you'd need to know how many were lost. For all we know, it's 5%.

The list is just for informational purposes and over time, to see if it does cause significant deflationary pressure although I suspect we won't be around to see that time.

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Quote from: ytr8 on October 20, 2014, 10:09:38 PM

i lost my a little on C-CEX because of my careless,Click the' dump' button,but i don't think that it really lost.

Once you sent those coins to C-CEX, they were no longer yours. C-CEX still has them.

Topic: Lost Bitcoins (Read 2504 times)