Topic: Lost trading history (Read 401 times)

Im not sure about the IRS, but you can ask about people from Europe, in certain countries you are by default a criminal unless proven otherwise (basically).

You are delusional if you think you can put $100k worth of bitcoin in your bank account, and they aren't going to ask you were the money came from and you better be able to prove it. For instance, if you get paid in bitcoin for selling some product or service, they will ask for invoices, proof that the money doesn't come from illegal activity, or if you get paid to post on forums and your coins are eventually worth $100k, you can't put them on your bank and say some vague explanation, im sure they will want deeper details. Im not sure what exactly, perhaps screenshots of the threads or whatnot, I've never known anyone that cashed out big signature campaign-derived amounts.

Also check this out US related:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States


Yeah the problem is governments don't see us as humans, but numbers, so "my excuse" (even if the truth) may not work out well. In my case it's the truth, but actual criminals could just claim that it happened to them too, so I understand that from that PoV. However what im supposed to do then, if not just hold these coins forever (alternative being to gamble my legal-activity earned money in some vague definition of "good or bad faith")

now that trading is going to be really bad, it's because of the price that is happening in the market. everyone is in a hurry to buy all the traders who can sell their holdings but it is a good buy now because of the market.

Livecoin is worst exchange ever. How you trading in here i don't know. Trading volume is good but this exchange really slow down even it's going to offline a  couple of days within a week. I have more lose trading history in binance and LBANK. Volumes is matter in every trading.

Easy to say but wont really be that easy for them to convince about on where those funds came from.No evidence or proofs to be shown then it would really be a big problem.


Stop on making a shitpost or garbage presumptions because theres no such error about on exchange log deletion.Its clear that its being mention about storing only last 30 days of transactions.There are exchangers who do have that kind of system.

Is it not that the local exchanges should be required by the government to keep all the transaction records of every client for future verification? I just wonder of which country you were belong in which its seems that you are oblige to submit your transactions for future taxation while in our country the tax is already deducted during Crypto to fiat conversion.

This seems to be an error from the exchange site that you are using, whether from some of the transactions that you have done so that you delete some history that turns out you have forgotten that you deleted it, but usually every exchange will surely show proof of withdrawal or expenditure transaction...

A good first step is to collect as much information as possible from the financial institutions involved. For older trading records, you may need to pay a research fee that depends on the age and complexity of the records requested. Another option is to assemble all the necessary data – including historical trading prices, dividends and stock splits – and then use a spreadsheet to determine the amount of capital that was reinvested. The best approach, of course, is to keep your transaction records. That will save you a lot of work and stress.

You have your excuse already. If the government will really require your reports then tell them what happen, that the trading site should be held responsible for the transactions records that lose. Anyway, you are legal person and you hide nothing. In our country, we are not oblige to submit reports but the government will just review all of our transactions records in the exchanges.

I told H&R block something like "This $ is how much BTC I sold, I've had BTC for a long time, It didn't cost me anything I made it"


They taxed the whole thing as long term cap gains and gave me audit insurance so if it doesn't fly it's H&R block's problem, not mine..

I even told them straight up that you will have to go through 10mm TXs from the exchanges still up and missing ones from dead exchanges and they said no problem..
I think I might have filed my bank statement showing the deposit with it..

My bank weirds me out sometimes though..
They always ask me what I'm buying and "What kind of car? What color?" kind of BS when I WD a large amount..
They are likely just trying to be nice and make conversation but it creeps me out..

Al Capone got busted for tax evasion. He didn't get busted for inability to prove where his income was derived from. That's not a coincidence. The IRS does not ask for the origin. They only ask for very general categories of income (including itemized capital gains).

You're veering off into paranoia when you say that possessing money automatically means the presumption of illegal activity, and further that this warrants investigation by law enforcement agencies besides tax authorities. Do you have anything to support these theories, besides hypotheticals?

It's been explained already that the threshold (at least in the US) is whether reporting was "reasonable" and in "good faith." For example, see this answer from a licensed CPA:

I'm really not sure where guys get these ideas about proof -- "if you can't prove the source, you'll lose everything or get dragged off to prison" etc. That sounds very outlandish to me. I've been filing tax returns on behalf of clients for many years as well as my own, and I deal with CPAs and tax authorities regularly.

Anyway, personally, I would avoid talking to the IRS directly about your own case. Consult a qualified tax professional (or two) and follow their advice. That way, if the IRS ever comes after you -- highly unlikely IMO if you pay your taxes with reasonable accuracy -- you'll have formed the basis for a "reasonable cause and good faith" defense.

Seems dead sensible. It's not as if he's trying to defraud anyone. I'm sure the taxman would vastly prefer to be approached and consulted rather than be treated like some type of boogeyman.

Apart from Americans again.

I seems that you still haven't got any clue about what to do.

Why don't you under a different name (fake identity) reach out to your local tax department and ask for advice? I don't think anyone here will be able to come up with a satisfying answer that will make you report your profits and what not with a peace of mind, so why not just reach out to the source of your concern?

I have done that before, and ironically enough, my local tax department has an actual desk for those who seek to be anonymous with questions. I still didn't use it because you never know how anonymous your are even when using that option, but using a fake identity definitely keeps you out of their aiming range. There is nothing to lose for you. Go for it.

Many exchanges don't rotate deposit addresses. In fact, I believe Poloniex, at least the last time I used it, still had my old same deposit address after years. I've saved screenshots of these, the big problem here is, im talking about exchanges that no longer exist.

If the exchange no longer exists, and you don't have the trading history, or a screenshot for what's worth it.. (a screenshot could be manipulated anyway... if they get too nitpicky they may ask even for your login details?) how are you supposed to prove it? And anyone that has been around here for a long enough time may have lost trading history in similar ways. Remember that back then exchanges were insanely scammy and disappearing out of nowhere the next day, it was ridiculous, and it was still to new, so you were in uncharted territory, still learning, and maybe you weren't updating your trading history on every new trade you made, so there will be gaps in your trading history..

Honestly the only bitcoins that I feel that I can prove the origin of where I got them from are mostly signature campaign payments and not much else, because if you put your coins in an exchange and then withdraw them, and you don't have information of what happened within the exchange, then it's basically the same as mixing your coins.

At the very least you will have an exchange address that you deposit to, and many exchanges are so shit they never change the deposit address so you can screenshot that. You will also have withdrawals from known exchange addresses.

You're a bit stuck if it comes to handing over trade by trade gains, but you could point to the overall origin of a large amount of BTC.

Much depends on where you live. I think only the Americans are psychotic enough to pursue everything to the end of the Earth. Most other places probably won't raise it unless multiple red flags pop up if you pay capital gains on a zero cost basis.

If you can't prove you how reached that figure, then you can't. In that case your local tax authority will look deeply into your story to see if it's plausible or just bogus to begin with, and based on that they could either just have you pay the tax amount you "owe" them (which is the most favorable outcome for you), or they in the worst case could seize your assets entirely.

It's a very tricky situation and I definitely understand your concerns. The problem with tax autorities is that they tend to stereotype people in the crypto space as being tax evaders, and that will definitely work against you in the forthcoming years, especially in case they are nitpicking about every pathetic little detail. They can only win, either a small chunk in tax payments or the whole amount. In other words, you are the loser.

How can you say that? yes, almost the trade is not strong today but does not mean that trading is outdated, the market is relatively low, so it's difficult to trade coins, so long term holds, traders will start again when the market is fine.

Theres nothing to be proved when you wouldnt be asked out but i understand on how op is really making this a serious thing because we do know the thing we should really be ready at all time because anytime
we might be needed to provide those kind of proofs when they do already ask on where are your transactions related on the money you are converting.Each country do have taxation laws and i do understand on op's side.
Therefore, the thing on my mind  that Livecoin itself can give you out that certain informations about trading history unless if they completely delete all logs due to their own rules on having or listing last 30 days transactions which is really a disastrous thing for you on not to discover it earlier.

I think it's delusional to claim they don't care about the origin, otherwise people would be selling illegal stuff on the darknet and then putting it into some exchange, making some gains and reporting it as capital gains.

Let's say you put 1 BTC in some exchange, and this BTC was made with signature campaign posting for instance, across a couple of years or so. You then x100 that in some exchange, and then you put your 100 BTC back into your Bitcoin Core wallet or whatever.

In 5 years Bitcoin goes past $100k, so you are sitting on 10 $million now, and you want to buy a million dollar house. When you cash out this million, they will obviously ask where the money came from.

You may have screenshots and whatever proving you got paid to post in some internet forum, but then, if you lost your altcoin trading history in the exchange, you cannot prove how you made this BTC go x100.

How this isn't a problem?

From what I've read, and in regards to US law, that's not really true. One of the only facts in this case is your provable income. That's what tax authorities base cases on. If you make a good faith effort to pay taxes on your provable income, there are no facts that can be used against you (in a court of law or otherwise).

I'm not sure where you are, but here, the IRS isn't particularly interested in the origin. They only have jurisdiction over the tax code. And they're probably not very interested regardless if you're income is 5-figures to low 6-figures. If you send a BTC output to an exchange and sell the proceeds, then pay the requisite taxes on the capital gains, the IRS has no reason or evidence to claim you owe additional taxes.* I'm not sure what kind of totalitarian regime you might live under, though?

* They are analyzing the blockchain, though. So I would keep that in mind if you're trying to keep some of your stash off the radar.

The problem is that governments often couldn't care less if you couldn't be proved wrong because there is no evidence. If they demand records and you don't have it, you could be in trouble.. hence why now im hesitant to ever sell coins whose origin is not really clear anymore because of situations like this one where you have lost partial or total records.

I have the transaction to the Livecoin deposit address, and when I get my coins out, I have the transaction to my address. So I have "coins going in-> coins going out".  However I think (im not sure) they also want all of your altcoin trades within the exchange, so that's why you should have the .csv files and I wasn't able to save that because they deleted it.

And in the case of Mintpal, I think I also have "coins going in-> coins going out", I would need to check, I think I labeled the deposit transaction as "Mintpal", however since the exchange is dead and I didn't take a screenshot of my deposit address... it could be a transaction to any address. I don't think there's a way to prove it went into an exchange and then out.

So im not sure anymore if im going to be able to ever sell these coins without ending up in trouble because the origin of the funds is unclear. Luckily I've never been much of a trader, but it's still very annoying, there was a period where I did a lot of trades and it's a pain in the ass now trying to make sense of all these transactions going in and out of exchanges.