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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 6. (Read 2032266 times)

hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 18, 2015, 02:28:43 AM


Thank you for yet another demonstration of your group's lazy argumentation


Another powerful point not made. Its right up there with your false "Bitcoin is already sidechain readytm!!' claim

https://github.com/ElementsProject/elementsproject.github.io

It doesnt work on bitcoin.  It uses federated peg servers to fake the functionality ( contract like scripts) until they can shoehorn it into bitcoin.
Nothing these guys are doing at the moment is above PoC level. Its interesting, its just not ready.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 18, 2015, 02:25:33 AM

 It's more about wrestling control from a compromised few to..... Mike Hearn.


At least you are now starting to accept that point that they are compromised. Some progress finally.

I really dont value the opinion of that guy to spend time on that blog. I'm aware of him - that is sufficient.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 02:24:55 AM


Thank you for yet another demonstration of your group's lazy argumentation


Another powerful point not made. Its right up there with your false "Bitcoin is already sidechain readytm!!' claim

https://github.com/ElementsProject/elementsproject.github.io
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 18, 2015, 02:24:51 AM
I don't think Blockstream has a deliberate financial agenda to mess up Bitcoin or hold it hostage.

I do think the founders of Blockstream (mostly gmaxwell and adam3us; the perspectives of the others are somewhat less apparent) have (and, importantly, had; see next paragraph) a different vision for how Bitcoin is supposed to work. Different, that is, from most of the community and also from satoshi's public writings (including the white paper).

Here's where things get a bit complicated because their vision for how Bitcoin is supposed to work has in part motivated the creation of the business and the requirements to realize that vision are the needs they aim to satisfy with their business plan.

But claiming they want to do such and such to Bitcoin because it makes their business succeed is reversing the actual causality.

I may be completely wrong, but probably not.

hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 18, 2015, 02:19:11 AM


Thank you for yet another demonstration of your group's lazy argumentation


Another powerful point not made. Its right up there with your false "Bitcoin is already sidechain readytm!!' claim
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 02:18:41 AM
See post above. It's more about wrestling control from a compromised few to..... Mike Hearn.

Now about accusations of being compromised, let's compare the facts : http://trilema.com/2013/and-gavin-moves-on-to-the-dark-side-the-bitcoin-project-is-officially-hijacked/

Quote
Bruce Wagner : When was the last time you chatted to satoshi

Gavin Andresen: Um… I haven't had email from satoshi in a couple months actually. The last email I sent him I actually told him I was going to talk at the CIA. So it's possible , that…. that may have um had something to with his deciding.

Possible ?  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
August 18, 2015, 02:15:50 AM
Gavin Andresen On Future Blockchain Security: I Dunno LOL!

http://qntra.net/2015/01/gavin-andresen-on-future-blockchain-security-i-dunno-lol/#comment-7830

Quote
So how will blockchain security get paid for in the future?

I honestly don't know.


fuck you gavin.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 02:14:19 AM

The issue is not whether they will succeed or not.

Obvious fallacy. Thats the only thing its about. Its about wresting control from a compromised few to the many.


Quote from: brg444
It's about undermining the value of the original decision model using fear & propaganda.

Thats exactly what you are trying to do - your just not doing it very well anymore. As a shill, I'm afraid you really need to up your game.

Everything you have written is designed to instill fear - it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Calm and informed rebuttals are weakening your case with every post.

See post above. It's more about wrestling control from a compromised few to..... Mike Hearn.

Now about accusations of being compromised, let's compare the facts : http://trilema.com/2013/and-gavin-moves-on-to-the-dark-side-the-bitcoin-project-is-officially-hijacked/
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 18, 2015, 02:12:19 AM

The issue is not whether they will succeed or not.

Obvious fallacy. Thats the only thing its about. Its about wresting control from a compromised few to the many.


Quote from: brg444
It's about undermining the value of the original decision model using fear & propaganda.

Thats exactly what you are trying to do - your just not doing it very well anymore. As a shill, I'm afraid you really need to up your game.

Everything you have written is designed to instill fear - it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Calm and informed rebuttals are weakening your case with every post.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 02:11:05 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

Central authority like the bitcoin core devs?

The core devs have historically worked using a consensus based model of decision making. Gavin & Mike are the ones attempting to force through a contentious fork.

Explain how this works exactly.  Will gavin and Mike visit each miner, put a gun to their head, and force them to switch to XT.  Explain what mechanism they will use to force miners and users to upgrade to XT against their will.

The issue is not whether they will succeed or not. It's about undermining the value of the original decision model using fear & propaganda.

The original decision model Satoshi designed is consensus through POW based mining as representative of individual voting.

You think consensus among devs somehow means something, it doesn't.

The reason you and others are throwing so much venom at XT is you are fighting bitcoin's built in consensus mechanism, thinking it should be something its not.

Maybe you tell that to your friend Mike

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 02:08:09 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

Central authority like the bitcoin core devs?

The core devs have historically worked using a consensus based model of decision making. Gavin & Mike are the ones attempting to force through a contentious fork.

Historically, perhaps. But that was history, and that was certainly before Blockstream. Now their interest is to preserve a bottleneck in Bitcoin that makes up the only value proposition for their sidechain alt coins. They have $21m reasons to fight this.

And as people begin to realise this, they are getting behind the fork, something most (including me) wouldn't have countenanced just a few months ago.

Thank you for yet another demonstration of your group's lazy argumentation

The fact that this debate has turned very early on into character assassination and personality contests tells the whole story.

Gavin, Mike & their supporters have made it a political battle that necessarily undermine their arguments and ultimately weaken their position.

About sidechains: they will be of very little use under current block size constraints so you're really grasping at straws here.

You'd think they are goddamned stubborn at Blockstream. Why worry about innovating zero-knowledge proof to scale their sidechain when we can just inflate the block size to infinity!
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 18, 2015, 02:01:34 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

Central authority like the bitcoin core devs?

The core devs have historically worked using a consensus based model of decision making. Gavin & Mike are the ones attempting to force through a contentious fork.

Historically, perhaps. But that was history, and that was certainly before Blockstream. Now their interest is to preserve a bottleneck in Bitcoin that makes up the only value proposition for their sidechain alt coins. They have $21m reasons to fight this.

And as people begin to realise this, they are getting behind the fork, something most (including me) wouldn't have countenanced just a few months ago.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 01:17:56 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

You're joking, right?
Is there anyone that really thinks that Satoshi wrote that?
Even though I largely agree with what was written, it should be considered simply "anonymous".

The beauty of the message is precisely the presence of plausible deniability so as to let the ideas stand on their own
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
August 18, 2015, 01:13:53 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

Central authority like the bitcoin core devs?

The core devs have historically worked using a consensus based model of decision making. Gavin & Mike are the ones attempting to force through a contentious fork.

Explain how this works exactly.  Will gavin and Mike visit each miner, put a gun to their head, and force them to switch to XT.  Explain what mechanism they will use to force miners and users to upgrade to XT against their will.

The issue is not whether they will succeed or not. It's about undermining the value of the original decision model using fear & propaganda.

The original decision model Satoshi designed is consensus through POW based mining as representative of individual voting.

You think consensus among devs somehow means something, it doesn't.

The reason you and others are throwing so much venom at XT is you are fighting bitcoin's built in consensus mechanism, thinking it should be something its not.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 18, 2015, 01:13:09 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

You're joking, right?
Is there anyone that really thinks that Satoshi wrote that?

Yes there is. I'm not saying I do.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
August 18, 2015, 01:11:28 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

You're joking, right?
Is there anyone that really thinks that Satoshi wrote that?
Even though I largely agree with what was written, it should be considered simply "anonymous".
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 12:59:24 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

Central authority like the bitcoin core devs?

The core devs have historically worked using a consensus based model of decision making. Gavin & Mike are the ones attempting to force through a contentious fork.

Explain how this works exactly.  Will gavin and Mike visit each miner, put a gun to their head, and force them to switch to XT.  Explain what mechanism they will use to force miners and users to upgrade to XT against their will.

The issue is not whether they will succeed or not. It's about undermining the value of the original decision model using fear & propaganda.

So gavin and Mike are using "fear and propaganda" to force miners and users to upgrade to XT against their will.  Wow.  You guys are stooping to new lows, just when I thought you couldn't get any lower.

You should make peace with this because I have much worst thing to say about Gavin & Mike. A lot of ugly will come out of that story and you should eventually feel very sorry your ever held USGavin in esteem
hero member
Activity: 622
Merit: 500
August 18, 2015, 12:57:33 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

Central authority like the bitcoin core devs?

The core devs have historically worked using a consensus based model of decision making. Gavin & Mike are the ones attempting to force through a contentious fork.

Explain how this works exactly.  Will gavin and Mike visit each miner, put a gun to their head, and force them to switch to XT.  Explain what mechanism they will use to force miners and users to upgrade to XT against their will.

The issue is not whether they will succeed or not. It's about undermining the value of the original decision model using fear & propaganda.

So gavin and Mike are using "fear and propaganda" to force miners and users to upgrade to XT against their will.  Wow.  You guys are stooping to new lows, just when I thought you couldn't get any lower.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
August 18, 2015, 12:53:28 AM
Satoshis recent comments were right and I agree that bitcoin wasnt designed to be at the whim of central authority which is what it is trying to destroy. So with that im with bitcoin original thick or thin.

Central authority like the bitcoin core devs?

The core devs have historically worked using a consensus based model of decision making. Gavin & Mike are the ones attempting to force through a contentious fork.

Explain how this works exactly.  Will gavin and Mike visit each miner, put a gun to their head, and force them to switch to XT.  Explain what mechanism they will use to force miners and users to upgrade to XT against their will.

The issue is not whether they will succeed or not. It's about undermining the value of the original decision model using fear & propaganda.
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