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Topic: Stolen Bitfinex Coins on the Move - page 5. (Read 6486 times)

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 252
Veni, Vidi, Vici
January 28, 2017, 12:34:43 PM
#43
I sincerely hope stolen coins get frozen. Crypto scum should never be allowed to profit from their crime. It undermines trust into the community and gives them ideas to repeat the whole process.

Bitfinex is offering a 5% reward for each coin anyone can return to it. Any exchange sent stolen coins can claim 5% of them and return the rest to bitfinex. Dong that would pay them more money than they would get if they let the hacker withdraw or trade any coins he deposited to an exchange. All those exchanges will probably opt to claim the 5% reward because of the financial incentive.


There is not only the economic incentives that likely for an exchange are not very large compared to an individual. Think of it however as a collegiality and solidarity. If you were one of the shareholders of another exchange I believe that you would like the same way others to do for you, don't you? In these circumstances there is no the competition issue but anyone accepts or receives stolen goods then is called conspirator or fence and this action is a criminal offence punishable by the law in any country of the world.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1074
January 28, 2017, 11:46:00 AM
#42
The mixer services are currently under scrutiny from most governments and they will possibly work with the authorities to identify

the people behind this hack. If they resist, they will just attract a lot of negative attention and they do not need that now. The

authorities do not need to ask nicely, they can just force them with a Subpoena through the courts. The exchanges is no problem,

because they already work with most governments, if they adhere to AML/KYC regulations.  Roll Eyes   
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
January 28, 2017, 11:28:14 AM
#41
It's really scary to know like a third of the coins were stolen but at least BIFINEX is not closing down and will compensate everyone so customers have not lost out.

Compensating people in form of worthless tokens that people can exchange to a certain amount of equity in the main company is not really a worthy compensation if you ask me. People simply want their cold hard coins back. This "comensation" is just set up to keep people their mouths shut for a good while

This is not so much about keeping people's mouths shut as giving people (most likely) false hope of getting their coins back eventually, somewhere in the future. Basically, they are trying to keep their client base since without them and their fresh coins they will quickly turn into a Bter-like exchange which leads mostly a ghostly existence now (but at least they didn't socialize the losses caused by the theft, unlike Bitfinex)...

Personally, I don't think this will help Bitfinex in the long term but they can still drag on for some time

It's funny though that they are offering a bounty even to the hacker lol. He should be rewarded for hacking? I am not so sure, but if he returned the dough that would be something.

It's indeed funny, but at the same time quite a desperate call as well. Especially if you consider that there might not have been a hack at all. But in case these coins are really stolen due to a hack, then a bounty could be a last resort option. If you don't try, you won't gain anything. But there is more to it than simply a reward. I am sure that they try to contact the "hacker(s)" in the hope that they make a mistake where they potentially can be traced one way or another. Nothing will be done without a reason. Thieves won't be rewarded just like that. Wink

I wouldn't trust a word coming from Bitfinex officials. Trusting them might harm innocent people not involved in this affair altogether. Though that shouldn't be misconstrued as me endorsing theft or hacks
copper member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 899
🖤😏
January 28, 2017, 11:19:46 AM
#40
There are many exchanges willing to accept and or convert bitcoins to altcoins, they can sell to unsuspected people around the world.
If we really want to trap them then the only possible solution would be for miners to somehow refuse including them in blocks.
But that is unlikely the case of success, therefor once again not bitcoin's problem of safety but rather neglected exchange admins.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
January 28, 2017, 11:16:44 AM
#39
Well, sooner or later those stolen bitcoins had to be appeared. I just wander how you could find out that were exactly those Bitfinex's bitcoins? They were not marked as I know.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1085
Money often costs too much.
January 28, 2017, 10:53:47 AM
#38
I sincerely hope stolen coins get frozen. Crypto scum should never be allowed to profit from their crime. It undermines trust into the community and gives them ideas to repeat the whole process.

If someone is capable of freezing them. Traced deposits ending up inside some exchanger, yes for sure that is possible if the community keeps on beeing observant. But Bitcoinmixed BTCs?
Currencies with builtin anonymity will cause additional havoc. The cat is out of the bag, BTCs can be "washed" in several ways today so maybe it does not matter anymore.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
January 28, 2017, 10:14:28 AM
#37

It's clear that if you cause so much damage to an exchange, that you as hacker don't have any moral problems with keeping these coins even though you know that innocent people have been suffering.
What are they going to do with their coins if they keep them? As of now, they are unable to exchange them for fiat, and are unable to use them to buy anything of any meaningful amount.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 251
January 28, 2017, 10:07:06 AM
#36
I doubt these exchanges will freeze the coins. The problem is that they will earn profit on any trades made by the hacker, and it is none of their business; they do not have to enforce the law. The main reason I think they will ignore the coins is because Bitfinex is their competitor. Giving them back their coins would be helping Bitfinex get back up on its feet. The worse Bitfinex does, the better the other exchanges do.
sr. member
Activity: 310
Merit: 250
January 28, 2017, 10:06:30 AM
#35
I still fully think that Bitfinex are the ones that stole those coins, I really HOPE they aren't but my gut says that this is all them.

I guess they're trying to get their name out a bit right now.

Maybe they are trying to clean their name a bit for purposes of boosting their trading volumes. I would seriously like to say that they should just avoid the damned platform and move other legit ones that have a clean record. There are plenty of other services to choose from.
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1127
January 28, 2017, 09:29:22 AM
#34
Maybe they would let the coins in, tag the accounts and try to get the identity of the thieves, seems to be the only way to get them

By the way, why did they waited so long to move the coins somewhere, if was before people discovered what was going on, they could mix and use exchanges to mix some significant part of the coins, and have a good profit
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1285
Flying Hellfish is a Commie
January 28, 2017, 09:20:21 AM
#33
I still fully think that Bitfinex are the ones that stole those coins, I really HOPE they aren't but my gut says that this is all them.

I guess they're trying to get their name out a bit right now.
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 514
January 28, 2017, 06:56:45 AM
#32
This is interesting with the published address there's a high level certainty that the coins shall be returned by the exchanges though I can't remember when was the last time something like this ever happened. I read there a 5% reward per coin, which raises a suspension in my mind, what if the exchanges are involved in it. The guy who stole it could have a pact with them right, so both would profit as the risk of being caught would reduce, or I am thinking wrong?
If you think logically, then there is no point for the hacker to return whatever number of coins to Bitfinex.

It's clear that if you cause so much damage to an exchange, that you as hacker don't have any moral problems with keeping these coins even though you know that innocent people have been suffering.

If these coins do get returned, which I can't see happening, then it's an ultra foolish hacker. Another possibility is that it was an insider job where the people behind this attack are trying to slowly return a small portion of these coins.
What might be happen is the hackers will keep it (85%) in my opinion. There are 3 speculation right?
- hackers give it back and rewarded 5% (but others may think, "it's a conspiracy between them, inside job)
- hackers won't give it back and try to mix it or hold for years.
- bitfinex somehow could fine them and make the hackers going intoo the jail.
Let's wait and see what will happen in the future between bitfinex and the hackers.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
The revolutionary trading ecosystem
January 28, 2017, 06:47:54 AM
#31
I seriously wonder if these stolen coins will ever be recovered? I mean, it doesn't seem impossible with companies devoted to blockchain analysis.
Does anyone know of any examples of large Bitcoin thefts where the perpetrators were caught in the end? 

They can't be recovered, is just like asking the DAO hacker to refund the stolen tokens or the Shapeshift hack, this is one of the minus in the space, I just hope in future there will be a solution to theft of this huge nature
sr. member
Activity: 868
Merit: 259
January 28, 2017, 06:34:43 AM
#30
I seriously wonder if these stolen coins will ever be recovered? I mean, it doesn't seem impossible with companies devoted to blockchain analysis.
Does anyone know of any examples of large Bitcoin thefts where the perpetrators were caught in the end? 
If I were to bet on it, I would say they will be recovered. The exact addresses of where the coins are "sitting" are very well known, and are well publicized. I would doubt that any exchange would hesitate to freeze the account of anyone who receives any of the stolen coins. If a mixer were to receive any of the stolen coins, they would probably not "mix" the stolen coins because their customers would be unable to use those coins on an exchange. So, the hacker's only likely choice would be to deal with bitfinex to try to negotiate the return of some of the stolen coins.

I am not aware of any large thefts/hacks in which the thieves ended up getting caught, although I think this is different because of the above.

As of block 450293 872.89153671BTC has moved, and according to the OP of the above reddit thread they have been sent to various exchanges (possibly to see how they will react to receiving deposits of these stolen coins).

Seems to be a fraction of the whole booties. I would announce doubts about the exchanges reacting in a way that is satisfying for the thieves, which will just drain that flow again. Evading further observations. This time they just got caught, next times not.
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say.

Was there ever a scenario that hacked and stolen BTC from exchanges that amounted in the millions were returned? I dont believe Ive ever read something like it in the news. All stolen BTC were forever lost. Its something the whole community have been enduring for a long time.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1007
January 28, 2017, 06:29:43 AM
#29
I seriously wonder if these stolen coins will ever be recovered? I mean, it doesn't seem impossible with companies devoted to blockchain analysis.
Does anyone know of any examples of large Bitcoin thefts where the perpetrators were caught in the end? 
Such stories have not heard, but the FBI has repeatedly stated that they have echnology able to calculate the attacker, recently working on a similar program started Interpol, can see what they come out and be like stealing fast track and return the funds to owners.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1179
January 28, 2017, 06:22:46 AM
#28
This is interesting with the published address there's a high level certainty that the coins shall be returned by the exchanges though I can't remember when was the last time something like this ever happened. I read there a 5% reward per coin, which raises a suspension in my mind, what if the exchanges are involved in it. The guy who stole it could have a pact with them right, so both would profit as the risk of being caught would reduce, or I am thinking wrong?
If you think logically, then there is no point for the hacker to return whatever number of coins to Bitfinex.

It's clear that if you cause so much damage to an exchange, that you as hacker don't have any moral problems with keeping these coins even though you know that innocent people have been suffering.

If these coins do get returned, which I can't see happening, then it's an ultra foolish hacker. Another possibility is that it was an insider job where the people behind this attack are trying to slowly return a small portion of these coins.
hero member
Activity: 2646
Merit: 686
January 28, 2017, 06:11:16 AM
#27
This is interesting with the published address there's a high level certainty that the coins shall be returned by the exchanges though I can't remember when was the last time something like this ever happened. I read there a 5% reward per coin, which raises a suspension in my mind, what if the exchanges are involved in it. The guy who stole it could have a pact with them right, so both would profit as the risk of being caught would reduce, or I am thinking wrong?
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 2846
January 28, 2017, 05:46:44 AM
#26
I sincerely hope stolen coins get frozen. Crypto scum should never be allowed to profit from their crime. It undermines trust into the community and gives them ideas to repeat the whole process.

Bitfinex is offering a 5% reward for each coin anyone can return to it. Any exchange sent stolen coins can claim 5% of them and return the rest to bitfinex. Dong that would pay them more money than they would get if they let the hacker withdraw or trade any coins he deposited to an exchange. All those exchanges will probably opt to claim the 5% reward because of the financial incentive.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
January 28, 2017, 04:40:21 AM
#25
It's really scary to know like a third of the coins were stolen but at least BIFINEX is not closing down and will compensate everyone so customers have not lost out.

Compensating people in form of worthless tokens that people can exchange to a certain amount of equity in the main company is not really a worthy compensation if you ask me. People simply want their cold hard coins back. This "comensation" is just set up to keep people their mouths shut for a good while.

It's funny though that they are offering a bounty even to the hacker lol. He should be rewarded for hacking? I am not so sure, but if he returned the dough that would be something.

It's indeed funny, but at the same time quite a desperate call as well. Especially if you consider that there might not have been a hack at all. But in case these coins are really stolen due to a hack, then a bounty could be a last resort option. If you don't try, you won't gain anything. But there is more to it than simply a reward. I am sure that they try to contact the "hacker(s)" in the hope that they make a mistake where they potentially can be traced one way or another. Nothing will be done without a reason. Thieves won't be rewarded just like that. Wink
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 506
January 28, 2017, 03:22:44 AM
#24
I seriously wonder if these stolen coins will ever be recovered? I mean, it doesn't seem impossible with companies devoted to blockchain analysis.
Does anyone know of any examples of large Bitcoin thefts where the perpetrators were caught in the end? 
If I were to bet on it, I would say they will be recovered. The exact addresses of where the coins are "sitting" are very well known, and are well publicized. I would doubt that any exchange would hesitate to freeze the account of anyone who receives any of the stolen coins. If a mixer were to receive any of the stolen coins, they would probably not "mix" the stolen coins because their customers would be unable to use those coins on an exchange. So, the hacker's only likely choice would be to deal with bitfinex to try to negotiate the return of some of the stolen coins.

I am not aware of any large thefts/hacks in which the thieves ended up getting caught, although I think this is different because of the above.

As of block 450293 872.89153671BTC has moved, and according to the OP of the above reddit thread they have been sent to various exchanges (possibly to see how they will react to receiving deposits of these stolen coins).

Seems to be a fraction of the whole booties. I would announce doubts about the exchanges reacting in a way that is satisfying for the thieves, which will just drain that flow again. Evading further observations. This time they just got caught, next times not.
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say.
I don't think that most mixers would have the morality to not mix these coins because their customers would not be able to use them.
About that, would they really not be able to use them? I would assume that blockchain analysis is something that takes time.

Enough time for someone (someone getting those mixed coins) to use those tainted coins before anyone noticing perhaps?

This topic from 2014 talk about previous Bitcoin thieves being caught and there are some that were, if you read the entire thread.
Though not many high profile cases.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/has-a-bitcoin-hackerthief-ever-been-caught-500212
Yes, not all of mixer may have the morality to refuse that kind of transaction. But I bet they don't want to accept to mix those stolen bitcoin as it so famous to deal with. The thieves have been waiting all this time to move the coins, but every move may tracked by authorities. Hopefully those bitcoins could be recovered even bitfinex and thieves should negotiate to give it back, but low chance to be happen.
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