Author

Topic: PBOC recanting and generally makeing a hash of it. (Read 1233 times)

legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1023
clearly English is not your first language, but i have to say, that was some of the most sophisticated English writing i have ever read!

hilarious too! Cheesy

English is my first language...I chose a particular style that will translate in a particular way to a particular reader...
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
ヽ( ㅇㅅㅇ)ノ ~!!
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The first potential mainstream use is "bitcoin as a store of value."
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Thank you, that's very interesting.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1014
Maybe the exchange owners had visitors coming to their home, offering them a 10years+ stay in a re-education camp in the Chinese mountains? Or a Tibetian monk type of treatment? Some special "tax fraud" investigation Ai Weiwei style? Who knows what govt scum has come up with?  Angry Cry Lips sealed Embarrassed

PBOC still not happy, BTC is over 400$, BTC is showing no sign of respect!!!!!!!



So they do this:

https://imgur.com/a/KDwtE

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
I wonder how the Chinese regulations would apply if the exchanges targeted their business at countries outside of China...i.e. set up banking relations with US Banks (or other major countries), and used USD/BTC instead of CNY/BTC?   Would it make it any different since they wouldn't need Chinese banks?

Think it's quite difficult and a bit of a legal grey area to move CNY/RMB out of the country for the average Chinese citizen. Also because it would still be depositing to a Bitcoin related business, you would take risk of having your bank account closed.

Are there any exceptions to this rule though? Can a Chinese citizen easily donate CNY/RMB to a registered international charity?
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf
I wonder how the Chinese regulations would apply if the exchanges targeted their business at countries outside of China...i.e. set up banking relations with US Banks (or other major countries), and used USD/BTC instead of CNY/BTC?   Would it make it any different since they wouldn't need Chinese banks?
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
The first potential mainstream use is "bitcoin as a store of value."

one can't emphasize this enough and is the #1 reason i got into Bitcoin by swapping out my gold and silver for Bitcoin.



Yeah, everytime someone says that Bitcoin needs a killer app... I think to myself that it's been a pretty killer store-of-value app for me...

I'm tired of hearing Andreas say that Bitcoin the currency is the first app layered on the blockchain. This implies you can afford to lose the currency and still be fine because you'd still have the underlying blockchain.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Bitcoin the currency is Bitcoin. You lose those fundamentaly valued units to something like a sidechain and you lose the entire Bitcoin network including the blockchain and Bitcoin will be destroyed.

I've become even more fond of my favorite saying and that is the Geeks fail to understand that which they hath created.

IMO, Bitcoin is first and foremost a fixed supply form of money (store of value), not a blockchain to be used for smart contracts, colored coins, assurance contracts, etc. I would say that Satoshi developed blockchain technology around this new form of money to facilitate and secure this one economic concept, not the other way around.   this one economic concept is what has lead to Bitcoins current success. The Geeks have been unable to focus on that ball to make it stronger. They've diluted their investments into all sorts of scamcoins and unrelated projects that have caused the outside world to look at the community, throw up their hands and say, as Daniel Krawicz has said, "what is all this shit? "

I keep hearing all these people complain they aren't going to buy bitcoin at these unfair prices therefore they are going to go start an Altcoin. This is precisely the problem. We haven't even successfully made Bitcoin an accepted form of money yet but we are trying to take over the world developing all this other stuff. There's still a long way to go getting Bitcoin itself accepted.

Until we all rally around Bitcoin itself as a fixed supply form of money , we aren't going to the moon.



I think something more nuanced is going on. I don't know about Andreas, but I think a lot of other people talking about how Bitcoin is a  "great technology" but a "poor currency" (or some equivalent statement) are being sly. They are hedging their social reputation... if Bitcoin takes off they can say "see, I told you it was great" and if it fails they can point to their statement about it being a bad currency. Using Bitcoin as a new currency is a very audacious idea that very few people are willing to support in public, but referring in a vague way to the technology as being innovative is easy to support. I don't really mind too much, it's a political strategy and it will end in the same place: Bitcoin as a universal currency.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
The first potential mainstream use is "bitcoin as a store of value."

one can't emphasize this enough and is the #1 reason i got into Bitcoin by swapping out my gold and silver for Bitcoin.



Yeah, everytime someone says that Bitcoin needs a killer app... I think to myself that it's been a pretty killer store-of-value app for me...

I'm tired of hearing Andreas say that Bitcoin the currency is the first app layered on the blockchain. This implies you can afford to lose the currency and still be fine because you'd still have the underlying blockchain.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Bitcoin the currency is Bitcoin. You lose those fundamentaly valued units to something like a sidechain and you lose the entire Bitcoin network including the blockchain and Bitcoin will be destroyed.

I've become even more fond of my favorite saying and that is the Geeks fail to understand that which they hath created.

IMO, Bitcoin is first and foremost a fixed supply form of money (store of value), not a blockchain to be used for smart contracts, colored coins, assurance contracts, etc. I would say that Satoshi developed blockchain technology around this new form of money to facilitate and secure this one economic concept, not the other way around.   this one economic concept is what has lead to Bitcoins current success. The Geeks have been unable to focus on that ball to make it stronger. They've diluted their investments into all sorts of scamcoins and unrelated projects that have caused the outside world to look at the community, throw up their hands and say, as Daniel Krawicz has said, "what is all this shit? "

I keep hearing all these people complain they aren't going to buy bitcoin at these unfair prices therefore they are going to go start an Altcoin. This is precisely the problem. We haven't even successfully made Bitcoin an accepted form of money yet but we are trying to take over the world developing all this other stuff. There's still a long way to go getting Bitcoin itself accepted.

Until we all rally around Bitcoin itself as a fixed supply form of money , we aren't going to the moon.

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
clearly English is not your first language, but i have to say, that was some of the most sophisticated English writing i have ever read!

hilarious too! Cheesy

I've learned a new word!

in·cho·ate
inˈkō-it,-āt/
adjective
adjective: inchoate

    just begun and so not fully formed or developed; rudimentary.
    "a still inchoate democracy"

    synonyms: rudimentary, undeveloped, unformed, immature, incipient, embryonic, beginning, fledgling, developing;
    "their government should not interfere in the inchoate market forces"
       
    LAW
        (of an offense, such as incitement or conspiracy) anticipating a further criminal act.

hey, no kidding, i learned about the Schwarzschild Radius, aka, blackhole!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
clearly English is not your first language, but i have to say, that was some of the most sophisticated English writing i have ever read!

hilarious too! Cheesy

I've learned a new word!

in·cho·ate
inˈkō-it,-āt/
adjective
adjective: inchoate

    just begun and so not fully formed or developed; rudimentary.
    "a still inchoate democracy"

    synonyms: rudimentary, undeveloped, unformed, immature, incipient, embryonic, beginning, fledgling, developing;
    "their government should not interfere in the inchoate market forces"
       
    LAW
        (of an offense, such as incitement or conspiracy) anticipating a further criminal act.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
The first potential mainstream use is "bitcoin as a store of value."

one can't emphasize this enough and is the #1 reason i got into Bitcoin by swapping out my gold and silver for Bitcoin.



Yeah, everytime someone says that Bitcoin needs a killer app... I think to myself that it's been a pretty killer store-of-value app for me...
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
The first potential mainstream use is "bitcoin as a store of value."

one can't emphasize this enough and is the #1 reason i got into Bitcoin by swapping out my gold and silver for Bitcoin.

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
You really think Bitcoin could exist in any significant context in China if the government decided to crack down? Do you think it will exist in a manner other than perhaps in businesses that have registered and are heavily audited/regulated by government? Can "black market" use really compare to the potential of mainstream use?

The first potential mainstream use is "bitcoin as a store of value."  So I think bitcoin actually becomes more appealing as governments crack down on financial products regulations and tighten-up capital controls.  The total value of all the gold in the world is some three orders of magnitude more than the total value of all the bitcoins in the world, despite bitcoin being easier to store, transport and exchange.  So there is a lot of room for growth in China as well as the rest of the world regardless of things like "merchant acceptance."

It's been proven with alcohol during prohibition, marijuana nowadays, and gold imports to India: governments can't stop the free market.  If there is demand, supply will find a way to meet it.  The crypto cat is out of the bag and if we see bitcoin prices start to grow and it looks like there will be another growth spurt, there will be increased demand from China regardless of PBOC actions.  
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
ヽ( ㅇㅅㅇ)ノ ~!!
The repercussions of BTC are likely to reshape society/culture.
True! Absolutely! Hopefully this includes Chinese society/culture too, but I am not so convinced.

The China is as China does, is only a product of this generation being unable to remember the ones just a few before. This to will pass.

Oh really? Explain further, please. By "China is as China does", all I mean is pleeeaase ignore China, this fixation is getting tiresome. Though it would be nice for Chinese if they can have Bitcoin, it can also succeed fine without them. Obviously if you yourself are Chinese I guess it matters a whole lot more to you.

Yeah, I'd be saying "please ignore USA" too if they were constantly wavering on issues of legality.

You really think Bitcoin could exist in any significant context in China if the government decided to crack down? Do you think it will exist in a manner other than perhaps in businesses that have registered and are heavily audited/regulated by government? Can "black market" use really compare to the potential of mainstream use?

What special historical insight do you have here?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
clearly English is not your first language, but i have to say, that was some of the most sophisticated English writing i have ever read!

hilarious too! Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 783
better everyday ♥
DAM, "China banned Bitcoin again"  Cry

Love that meme.  They must've banned Bitcoin 100 times this year alone.
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1023
China is as China does, they will heavily regulate or ban Bitcoin, this kinda goes without saying and always has.

The only thing of great interest is whether decentralised methods of exchange can exist in China. When they exist, I'll get cautiously excited. (And even that still might not survive China crackdowns, since they probably can block the Bitcoin protocol and make it very difficult to use beyond the techie elite).

The repercussions of BTC are likely to reshape society/culture.

The China is as China does, is only a product of this generation being unable to remember the ones just a few before. This to will pass.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
ヽ( ㅇㅅㅇ)ノ ~!!
China is as China does, they will heavily regulate or ban Bitcoin, this kinda goes without saying and always has.

The only thing of great interest is whether decentralised methods of exchange can exist in China. When they exist, I'll get cautiously excited. (And even that still might not survive China crackdowns, since they probably can block the Bitcoin protocol and make it very difficult to use beyond the techie elite).
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
All that will happen is that Exchanges based in China will move their operations to a less restrictive locality.  But sooner or later, even that won't matter, as someone is likely to devise a suitable way of trading between currencies without relying on centralised exchanges.  The present incarnation of Exchanges will be an outmoded concept once we come up with something better. 
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1023
So now they [perhaps PBOC & ors] are leaning on CNY exchange CEO's to not attend BTC conferences yet imply that BTC is to "small" for them to worry about....that's why PBOC may not communicate directly. Really Mr. Peking?

http://www.coindesk.com/five-chinese-exchange-ceos-pull-out-conference/

If this is true (and coinbase is the source, so their must be some suspicion), it is very interesting compared to the prior December statement that was jointly put out by PBOC & Friends. The Dec joint statement directly on BTC would appear to make BTC supra PBOC not infra.

The "Friends" all stamped in, officially at the bottom, are likely having less than acrimonious discussions in the corridors of slightly less power than before right about now.

Coupled with the number of times BTC was mentioned directly in the joint statement makes it hard to underplay now. If they do underplay they make themselves loose serious face by way of the prior statements.

Consider the tittle of the release, [I rely on the translation]
https://vip.btcchina.com/page/bocnotice2013

Quote
The People’s Bank of China and Five Associated Ministries Notice: “Prevention of Risks Associated with Bitcoin”


it wasn’t not about Bitcoin further. Consider not 1, 2 or 3, but 5 whole ministries including the PBOC put their chocks on [the block] for this. Lets list them

中国人民银行 ......The People’s Bank of China
工业和信息化部 ...Ministry of Industry and Information Technology
银  监  会...........China Banking Regulatory Commission
证  监  会...........China Securities Regulatory Commission
保  监  会...........China Insurance Regulatory Commission

It would be bard to put the word bitcoin more times into the joint statement if you tried.

It is arguable now, the amount of press the December joint statement generated more importance to BTC than wished. The price drop caused by the joint statement announcement was essentially converted to a payment for the advertisement campaign to 1.3 Billion Chinese, by our good friends.

But we need to cut them some slack. In the face of the financial and broader implications that BTC presented, which are to say the least "novel" one can understand the wisdom of the quick action taken by the Chinese Govt as they extrapolated the time frames within which they had to act. Lets put it this way: BTC was on the verge of a schwarzschild radius epicenter Peking, Ex nihilo. Think of all the carefully laid currency controls about to disappear, sucking RMB value out to who knows where. You can understand there must have been some headless chickens running around saying the sky is falling [For the status quo], sign this sign this. They were probably right…for them. The PBOC most of all faced questions about their raison d'etre.

The mid term results of these actions are now presenting difficulty for several actors. The message this latest action sends again appears to be sub optimal. The Exchange CEO's not attending is more conspicuous by their joint absence at short notice. It is almost giving more importance to BTC than could otherwise be achieved. Yes it sends other messages to locals and the broader market "we are in control", but this message rings hollow. It was the fact that Winston could be seen in public with Julia that showed whom had won out. The problem for BTC is of course how do you send math’s to room 101. How do you revise that 2 + 2 = 4. Well you could, but you need to be in a different Universe…literally.

The critical takeway from this is the novelty of BTC and the magnitude of the advance it has made over any preceding system makes it almost impossible to deal with by either conventional reasoning or tactics. There simply are no reference points, or historical precedents, reasoned theorists, or models to work from. While bitcoin maybe in beta, it turns out it has shown the structure/mechanics of society are also thrown into beta by the appearance of BTC.

Further it seems the harder you squeeze BTC at one point it just thrives at another point. One example of this is the inchoate promise BTC makes to state actors that pen more friendly BTC regulation will attract capital, business and brains....in orders undreamt of.

I wonder if our [usually] enlightened friends have parallels to the Boy who cried wolf, what happens when you cut of the head of the Hydra, Prometheus and certain burned texts.

It's probably high time a few think tanks actually sat down and made some reasoned decisions...there a a few obvious ones even if no comrade in the room want to put their hand up and say it. Right now they are starting to make Karples look organized.


One wonders if they had expected just the joint statement to implode BTC for good. What actually happened is China and PBOC found themselves increasingly relegated to a blip on a log graph, joining the large cohort of learned doomsayers.


Who knew you could Soft Hash to secure the blockchain and PBOC would be leading the way.

P.S. dear Translator & Official I hope you enjoyed translating/reading this.
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