Making Bitcoin Fully anonymous ? | Bitcointalksearch.org

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

Quote from: Kprawn on September 15, 2016, 03:27:56 PM

If you need to hide how much money was donated to a good cause, you need to reconsider what you doing. The whole point of donations

to charities are for people to see how much money was donated to the cause. Yes, Satoshi wanted Bitcoin to be "digital cash" but he also

recognized that it needs to be pseudo anonymous and not 100% anonymous. Roll Eyes

If you need to hide how much money was donated to a good cause simply give out a separate donation address to each person making a donation (HD wallet comes to mind).

Yes, Satoshi wanted Bitcoin to be "digital cash" my understanding is that the desire was for it to be anonymous but that was a very hard nut to crack so the system was released with pseudo-anonymity. Anonymous transactions was left as an exercise for future developers (meaning us).

To be a complete "digital cash" replacement for "cash" is would be nice if all transactions automatically mixed. It would also be nice to have the network enforce no address reuse. It does not. This is because truly trustless decentralized automatic mixing of transactions is very difficult if not impossible to do and people have become used to reusing addresses.

So, in order to support the privacy and fungibility of the Bitcoin system here are a few suggestions for you:

NEVER us a vanity address (HD wallet comes to mind)
NEVER us an address more than once (one input, one spend, throw it away, HD wallets do this naturally)
NEVER advertise an address as "yours", if you must do this then use the address only once (HD wallet anyone?).
MIX your coins on a regular basis.

shinratensei_

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Quote from: n691309 on September 14, 2016, 08:05:26 AM

Since they moved to altcoins business then for us using bitcoin we should use many different ways to be anonymous and few of them can be by using different IP addresses different wallets different exchanges and different bitcoin mixers and we end by paying some fees which worth or not.

And the word of bitcoin is anonymous it's just bullshit in this time? and the ending the people is need using some of their efforts for making their anonymity caused by bitcoin is can't providing it for instantly, and I think bitcoin is not made for the anonymity.

franky1

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Quote from: Dahhi on September 14, 2016, 11:43:07 AM

I wonder why everyone wants to go anonymous anyway...

It's not like we are all drug dealers Huh

drug dealing aside. there are other legit reasons to not want snooping eyes looking at your holdings.
1. your about to get divorced and dont want your ex wife to take 50% of everything, so you gotta hide it somewhere
2. you move country to country every 2 months and dont want to have to pay 6x yearly tax on the same lump sum, but happily pay one tax to the country you favour most.
3. you own a business and dont want your competition knowing your finances to work out how to undercut you by seeing how much you obtain and how much you spend
4. you dont want your neighbours seeing how much you have, or they will get too friendly and be asking for some 'help' financially
5. going to bitcoin meetups and someone sees ur name badge, searches the forum for addresses you publish and see how much you holding.. then does the dark alley pickpocket trick to take ur laptop or hardware wallet.

albert11

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I've heard zerocash is not to be trusted, true or false?

Docnaster

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on September 14, 2016, 06:49:47 AM

I guess we all agree here that Bitcoin is Pseudonymous and not anonymous , It's possible to use mixers,exchanges/gambling websites to mix your coins for the moment but It's just make things confusing and not anonymous for people to track you.

Darkwallet has officially failed and I'm not sure what they did with the funds , Zerocoin/Zerocash project kinda stopped the project and they are now working on an alternative coin called Zcash (and won't be used to make BTC anonymous).

I wanna know now , Is it possible to make Bitcoin anonymous or It's not meant to be in the first place when It first got designed by Satoshi ? If it's possible then would that require some modification in the Core and would need a Hard-fork ?

This one can be uses of another ponzi scheme by those who are creating one, why we can suggesting such thing we know that in the end can scammed our co-lead creating full anonymous wallet doesn't make any sense you already have one and you're anomous already you can do such thing , Such as trading illegal gambling on internet don't focus on darknet focus on what we have and what people see.

yayayo

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Quote from: PeRo on September 15, 2016, 03:37:11 PM

I do not think that Bitcoin was even supposed to be a 100% anonymous cryptocurrency. I do not mind the current state, I am not very disturbed if some site holds my location(if it is a legit site, of course), I do not enter fishy sites or unknown sites so I do not have the problem.

Sorry to say this, but to me you seem to be pretty thoughtless. If everyone would be equally ignorant like you, civil rights would cease to exists in no time (... and sadly this trend is indeed accelerating). Blind trust in third parties is exactly the thing Bitcoin was invented to resolve in the case of finance, because it always leads to an abuse of power.

How do you distinguish between a "legit" and a non legit site? And what's your reaction, if a site you deem legit abuses your data?

And it's not about private companies only. Governments are promoting blockchain analysis and eventually blacklisting of coins in their never ending hunger to exert control over all aspects of human behavior. If blacklisting is implemented, Bitcoin's fungibility and thus the whole currency will be destroyed, because everybody is at risk of accepting funds from the "wrong" source.

I think before you voluntarily give up your privacy, better spend an hour or two researching history...

ya.ya.yo!

PeRo

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I do not think that Bitcoin was even supposed to be a 100% anonymous cryptocurrency. I do not mind the current state, I am not very disturbed if some site holds my location(if it is a legit site, of course), I do not enter fishy sites or unknown sites so I do not have the problem.

Kprawn

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Quote from: pereira4 on September 15, 2016, 01:29:27 PM

For now we have mixers which is not much, also coin control to better control your in and outs. Other than that, we are stuck with what we have really. Let's hope that the good work of the likes of Gmaxwell continue in the direction of making Bitcoin actually digital cash as its described on the whitepaper. There are efforts in this direction being done with Confidential Transactions and Mimblewimble, look it up.

Quote from: Kprawn on September 15, 2016, 12:17:44 PM

I would not opt for 100% anonymous... I think Satoshi made it Pseudo anonymous for a reason.. that reason being, that it would give you

some degree of financial security, otherwise nobody would be using it, if everyone could track your tx's. A 100% anonymous technology

would create a scammers paradise and the filth of the world would be drawn to it, like flies to shit. If someone use Bitcoin to finance a

bomb to blow up a stadium full of people, I want the authorities to track down those shitheads and justice must be served. Normal law

abiding citizens must be left alone, to have the same degree of financial privacy as they have with cash. Wink

Unfortunately, you can't choose. You either have anonymous technology or you don't. If you can make an exception to track people down, then it isn't anonymous.

Satoshi said "digital cash", and we are far from being digital cash since Bitcoin is not fungible.

Optionally sending anonymous transactions in an easy way would be great. As of right now it's ridiculous. If you are accepting donations for example, everyone knows how much money people is donating to you which is just silly unless it's for a social project or something.

If you need to hide how much money was donated to a good cause, you need to reconsider what you doing. The whole point of donations

to charities are for people to see how much money was donated to the cause. Yes, Satoshi wanted Bitcoin to be "digital cash" but he also

recognized that it needs to be pseudo anonymous and not 100% anonymous. Roll Eyes

pereira4

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For now we have mixers which is not much, also coin control to better control your in and outs. Other than that, we are stuck with what we have really. Let's hope that the good work of the likes of Gmaxwell continue in the direction of making Bitcoin actually digital cash as its described on the whitepaper. There are efforts in this direction being done with Confidential Transactions and Mimblewimble, look it up.

Quote from: Kprawn on September 15, 2016, 12:17:44 PM

I would not opt for 100% anonymous... I think Satoshi made it Pseudo anonymous for a reason.. that reason being, that it would give you

some degree of financial security, otherwise nobody would be using it, if everyone could track your tx's. A 100% anonymous technology

would create a scammers paradise and the filth of the world would be drawn to it, like flies to shit. If someone use Bitcoin to finance a

bomb to blow up a stadium full of people, I want the authorities to track down those shitheads and justice must be served. Normal law

abiding citizens must be left alone, to have the same degree of financial privacy as they have with cash. Wink

Unfortunately, you can't choose. You either have anonymous technology or you don't. If you can make an exception to track people down, then it isn't anonymous.

Satoshi said "digital cash", and we are far from being digital cash since Bitcoin is not fungible.

Optionally sending anonymous transactions in an easy way would be great. As of right now it's ridiculous. If you are accepting donations for example, everyone knows how much money people is donating to you which is just silly unless it's for a social project or something.

Kprawn

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I would not opt for 100% anonymous... I think Satoshi made it Pseudo anonymous for a reason.. that reason being, that it would give you

some degree of financial security, otherwise nobody would be using it, if everyone could track your tx's. A 100% anonymous technology

would create a scammers paradise and the filth of the world would be drawn to it, like flies to shit. If someone use Bitcoin to finance a

bomb to blow up a stadium full of people, I want the authorities to track down those shitheads and justice must be served. Normal law

abiding citizens must be left alone, to have the same degree of financial privacy as they have with cash. Wink

OmegaStarScream

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Quote from: marleybobthedog on September 14, 2016, 07:51:52 AM

Making bitcoin fully anonymous is not a good idea because we will not be about yup know whether the third party had send us payment or not. Like now we can check in blockchain but if it is made fully anonymous then there will be more possibilities of scaming.

When I said making it anonymous , I meant more like making it impossible for track transaction (getting the IP addresses from where It's sent and received etc... ) and not removing the whole blockchain and making off-chain transactions .
Some people may suggest VPNs or Tor browser , It may be a good idea but I'm sure It doesn't give you total privacy.

unamis76

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I don't remember Darkwallet being officially closed down/development ceased. If I very well remember, the project was open source, so anyone can take it further.

Nevertheless, I think OP has answered his question already: Bitcoin isn't meant to be fully anonymous, and I'd like to see it stay that way for years to come, if not for eternity (and I'd like to see whatever comes to replace Bitcoin in a distant future adopt exactly the same stance about anonymity).

Lauda

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Terminated.

You are thinking about this from a very limited perspective. Do you really think that Bitcoin would ever be legalized in places like the US if it were 100% anonymous (hint, nothing is 100% anonymous)? The answer is obviously no. Generally I'm very pro-anonymity and privacy, however it should be opt-in, not opt-out. There are some proposals that will help with the anonymity such as Tumblebit.

Quote from: awesome31312 on September 14, 2016, 11:48:13 AM

A good way to make Bitcoin fully anonymous is to sell it and buy monero in its place.

This sentence does not make sense, and has nothing to do with making Bitcoin fully anonymous.

Quote from: OROBTC on September 14, 2016, 01:00:37 PM

If/when Mycellium starts automatic mixing with their rumored new wallet will make that easier. The more people mixing, the harder it becomes for our privacy to be cracked.

I don't think it's a question of 'if' anymore, but rather just 'when'. I've read about that feature not long ago, should be very useful indeed.

Quote from: awesome31312 on September 14, 2016, 11:52:58 AM

Drug dealers are not the only group of people who want privacy. People like Snowden or journalists who will get beheaded for talking smack about their government on the internet do too.

Correct, however there are plenty of methods to obstruct blockchain analysis to a certain degree. In addition to that, they can't really prevent you from converting to fiat (you can always face-to-face with someone for cash).

Milkduds

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Breaks down to hard you want to make some one sweat to figure out the money trail. Right now companies/government are unable or unwilling to commit time or resources,but that could change.

If I had a substantial amount,I would be using as many ways to throw the scent as possible. Often think gambling sites are overlooked for this factor.

franky1

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no matter what you do, you cannot cure the human factor.

EG
OP, recognize this
3KfPAawFK8qG8KmRBHfkyNtvJwSLwHDJam

sorry but now this address is know to be linked to you.
and that did not require any bitcoin code or detective work raiding through the blockchain..

next if you were to use funds to buy a car.. by checking the car outside of your house and then seeing you dont have enough FIAT income declared on a tax return to cover the cost of a car.. your caught again.

no matter what you try to do to the code to hide money. the human element of asking for money or spending money is where it fails. and always will fail.

no one cares about how many hands it has passed through. all they care about is how much you received and you spent. and that can always be found out by checking the human element.

OROBTC

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...

Most people using BTC are not using it for anything illegal. And most people using it are small users.

Therefore, mixing Bitcoin and staying away from breaking the law should be enough on its own for "pretty good privacy".

If/when Mycellium starts automatic mixing with their rumored new wallet will make that easier. The more people mixing, the harder it becomes for our privacy to be cracked.

awesome31312

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Quote from: Dahhi on September 14, 2016, 11:43:07 AM

I wonder why everyone wants to go anonymous anyway...

It's not like we are all drug dealers Huh

Drug dealers are not the only group of people who want privacy. People like Snowden or journalists who will get beheaded for talking smack about their government on the internet do too.

BingoDog

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Quote from: Dahhi on September 14, 2016, 11:43:07 AM

I wonder why everyone wants to go anonymous anyway...

It's not like we are all drug dealers Huh

That is not the point. Of course that not all Bitcoin users are using it for criminal activities but some of people just don't want that everyone knows they are Bitcoin users, especialy in the countries where governments are not very friendly to Bitcoin. Or where tax have to be paid.

awesome31312

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A good way to make Bitcoin fully anonymous is to sell it and buy monero in its place.

Dahhi

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MERCATOX

I wonder why everyone wants to go anonymous anyway...

It's not like we are all drug dealers Huh

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