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Topic: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade - page 31. (Read 174430 times)

member
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
NuBit and B&C Exchange Architect
For those worried about the scalability of the design, remember that this design is not set in stone. It's merely a starting point. Using voting and motions, shareholders will be able to alter the design over time to improve it and make it faster. Here is something I read on the Peercointalk chat box...

Quote
pillow: I still believe that Open Transactions is _SUPERIOR_ to B&C way of doing it... _but_ my bet is that B&C will morph into Open Transaction like style

Open Transactions has been in development for four years. This is an indication that it is not simple, and it is difficult to know how much longer it will take to complete, if it is ever completed.

My design is intended to be as simple and reliable as possible. It isn't the fastest approach (in terms of settlement time) and it uses more resources than some proposed solutions. However, I am confident it can be delivered more quickly and for less money than the alternatives. The iterative approach I am employing has been proven more likely to succeed than large ambitious projects full of complexity and uncertainty. It is worth noting the more complicated solutions haven't been delivered yet.

Sentinelrv is certainly correct that B&C Exchange will be iteratively developed for as long as there is funding to do so. Take a look at this relevant section from the design paper:

Quote
Future optimizations

Some observers may have concerns about the scalability of the solution. The initial design can scale to handle approximately 10 orders per second, along with all the other transactions needed to support orders. There are many changes that can be made in the future to improve scalability. They require additional development, so it doesn't make sense economically to implement them at this time. As network latency reduces over time due to hardware improvements block intervals can be collapsed, validation messages can be merely broadcast but not placed on the blockchain, a derivative of Cryptonite's mini-blockchain can be employed, delegates can be employed, etc. The solution proposed here can be evolved to scale far beyond 10 orders per second.

The initial version of B&C Exchange is in a sense just another iteration of earlier work. First the team and I developed the Peershare template. Once it was proven to work in on a public test network, we created the Nu network. B&C Exchange will be built on that code base and use most of the features of NuShares and NuBits. It is just another iteration. As such, I am confident it can be delivered. I wouldn't want to have to deliver Ethereum or Open Transactions, by the way. I'm just not at all confident I could do it. B&C Exchange is a much more modest proposal.
sr. member
Activity: 650
Merit: 318
For those worried about the scalability of the design, remember that this design is not set in stone. It's merely a starting point. Using voting and motions, shareholders will be able to alter the design over time to improve it and make it faster. Here is something I read on the Peercointalk chat box...

Quote
pillow: I still believe that Open Transactions is _SUPERIOR_ to B&C way of doing it... _but_ my bet is that B&C will morph into Open Transaction like style
pillow: both etherum and b&C has latency issues... thats not good. also both doesn't scale really
NewMoneyEra: Ethereum testnet is running 12 second blocktimes: http://stats.ethdev.com/
NewMoneyEra: Scalability is a big concern as Vitalik wrote 3 blog posts on it. frankly, it is over my head with merkle trees and the like. I do remember top guys saying a critical component was the need to successfully break the link that every node had to run every program, which I think they have not solved yet
masterOfDisaster: one advantage of b&c compared to ethereum is that it's quite easy to get the basic function of it - at least for those who know the basics of block chains
pillow: 12 seconds is very slow. I don't think it will work for a proper exchange. We need at least milliseconds, preferably much much faster. the only limit, basically, should be the time it takes for computer to communicate, which would still be too slow to compete with centralized exchanges
pillow: so basically, no blockchain should be used for order matching etc.
mably: certainly not fitted for high frequency trading Wink
pillow: the thing is because of voting mechanism in B&C I think it will morph into such a system
pillow: mably yes exactly. if the decentralized exchange is lagging behind, people will prefer centralized exchanges
pillow: "liquidity begets liquidity" so... the bid ask will make B&C traders very expensice. the network needs to be fast enough for arbitraging bots to provide liqudity
pillow: basically what I envision is an Open Transaction like thing, where voting pools sign richardian contracts and trades are settled when people withdraw etc.
mably: Yep will probably be better suited
pillow: using B&C there would now, I envision, be a way to "discover" voting pools and ensure that they are good
mably: I'm a big fan of the KISS principle
mably: yep why not, that's an idea
masterOfDisaster: at least b&c is a big step into the right direction. the details of the inner works of the exchange can be altered by owners will. just have a look how fundamentally nu was improved!
pillow: yes yes exactly,
masterOfDisaster: whatever is promising better for customers (and can be afforded) has a good chance to let a corresponding motion pass ;-) b&c doesn't need to be perfect from the start; it can be tailored afterwards. in case something isn't compatible with the design, it can still be forked. high-speed trading not compatible with b&c design? let's fork "b&c turbo edition" - if you know what I mean ;-)
pillow: yes yes
pillow: after reading sents' recap/history of nu thread, I realized how powerful the motions/voting concept is. not only does it work, but it creates a real focused community
pillow: while I think the basic B&C design is not competitable enough, I think it will be improved when people with idea of how to fix it joins in
pillow: my dream would be a B&C network that maintains and ensure operations, voting pools connected running exchanges and discovery process of these exchanges via the B&C network. this entire thing would then be wrapped and exposed in simple Android apps and super simple WebApps
pillow: the B&C blockchain would be super lite, because it will only contain a few normal shares/coins transactions, the voting and voting pool "end points"
masterOfDisaster: sometimes it's about being first - in this case the first very low trust decentralized dac that offers exchange services!
pillow: yes indeed
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.


That would actually be excellent. I have no issues with the Nu community overall, but lets just say that overposting there is what killed reddcoin in the eyes of many. I enjoy reading about interesting updates and milestones for any cryptocurrency, but if I want daily updates I'll subscribe to r/NuBits.

I wish you all luck in your project.
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 250
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.
If you are tired so easily, I kindly recommend you get some rest Wink

Out of curiosity - what is that NuTeam, you are speaking of?
Please don't take a part for the whole...
...but after all - isn't the cryptocurrency section for cryptocurrency related topics; which applies to Nu?
There's much development going on at Nu. That might be the reason for a lot of posts...
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
Thumbs up, I've been around with the Nu network just before their launch, I had the pleasure of dealing with numerous Nu community members, from watchers, through backers to devs, on various levels, from chat to business. I'm glad to see further developments from your side, your effort and work is superb.
hero member
Activity: 764
Merit: 500
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.

Yes, I was referring to him.
sr. member
Activity: 650
Merit: 318
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.
hero member
Activity: 764
Merit: 500
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

And you're not tired of the ads spam and paid articles that many other coins use?
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
What's your opinion about open transaction? It seems OT can do anything b&c can do.
full member
Activity: 203
Merit: 100
It is now the final day of the auction. As a reminder, there will be no extensions of the auction deadline. If you would like to secure NuShares (and BlockShares) please place a bid as soon as possible.
member
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
NuBit and B&C Exchange Architect

There will be websites that offer convenient access to the block chain and messages to it - e.g. to place orders in a way that people are familiar with from centralized exchanges.
But anybody is able to host such a website. In case websites are taken down, new ones will come up.


This is correct, but I wanted to clarify that if websites disappear nothing is lost because the websites don't hold any customer data or funds. That is all completely held on blockchain.

Account login only requires a BlockCredit private key. The website is just a user interface for the blockchain, and no other database is used. So, if the website you use disappears, you can use the same login credentials at any other site or in the desktop client.
sr. member
Activity: 650
Merit: 318
Just in case anyone here is hesitant to bid because you're unfamiliar with Nu, I spent several days putting together an entire history of the Nu Network. I included all the major events and tried to show the evolution of our design and shareholder voting over the last 7 months. Hopefully this will be able to catch you up to the point where you feel comfortable bidding on shares. I still need to add some things to the history to make it more complete, but I think this is a very good first draft. Enjoy...

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/history-of-the-nu-network-feedback-please/2088
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
tks @jordanlee for your answer.


My vision for b&c is that if it is successful, b&c will become the first decentralized stocks market place in the world.
Imagine the revolution.
On b&c not only btc and other crypto-currencies will be traded but also any crypto-assets that are "Satoshi-based."
I have of course in mind all the crypto-shares that based on peershares' blueprint.
Not only we can imagine that nushares will be traded on b&c, but also its own shares, b&c shares, and any shares that belong to any DAOs.
The consequence of that is that b&c could spark a revolution in the IPO funding of any business.
A business that needs to raise funds will create its own peershares blockchain and then go IPO from day one and float its shares on b&c.
Also, as @jordanlee envisions it, it seems natural that nubits will be used to get in and out of the market...as a synthetic dollar as you use dollars to buy google stocks and sell them for dollars...
The near future is bright.
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 250
Will B&C exchange be decntralized?  Like will FINCEN be able to shut it down or will it be like bittorent decentralized?

My understanding of the design leads to conclusion that there's no single point of centralization at B&C.

There will be websites that offer convenient access to the block chain and messages to it - e.g. to place orders in a way that people are familiar with from centralized exchanges.
But anybody is able to host such a website. In case websites are taken down, new ones will come up.

And the signing of transactions is completely decentralized as well.
There's no service provided by a domain name or an IP address that can be traced back.
The signers are expected to run the signing bots using TOR, VPN or proxies (because of security reasons).
So once again no centralized point of attack.
And the only reason why the work of the signers isn't completely automated and requires a little human interaction is the key management (backup of private keys) - I mean, you can't store the private keys of the signers in the B&C block chain and expect that nothing bad happens, right? Wink

Anything else runs on a distributed block chain.

Attacking the owners of B&C will be hard as well.
Neither B&C nor its shareholders need to register anywhere for the whole DAC to work.
From voting to the payout of dividends - all runs on block chains.
This is the beauty of DACs that are based on the Peershares template - which will be the case for B&C, because it will be forked from Nu, which was built upon the Peershares template - you need no connection to any real world identity; everything is just about cryptography and signatures Wink
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
Will B&C exchange be decntralized?  Like will FINCEN be able to shut it down or will it be like bittorent decentralized?
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
Anyone following cryptocurrency for as long as I have knows there is no shortage of brilliant minds taking part in this social leap.  Unfortunately, there are also plenty of thieves, con artists, and dreamers distracting from the true advances in Bitcoin’s evolution.  At this point, anyone with financial skin in the game should be leery of investing in undelivered promises.

The Peercoin track of development stands out in my mind as a veritable leader in innovation, foresight, and meticulous deployment.  Jordan Lee, sigmike, and erasmospunk have proven talent in advancing the ground-breaking work of Sunny King.  If you haven’t taken the time to evaluate the opportunities in Peershares and NuBits you haven’t performed due diligence in the industry and shouldn’t be investing in cryptocurrencies.

Jordan Lee has demonstrated himself capable not only of professional development but of true commitment to solving the fundamental roadblocks in world-wide adoption of decentralized finance.  Instead of pumping a trend for a quick buck, Jordan has joined Sunny King in constructing a legacy for our children that is both fair and resilient.  What other examples in history do we have of true intellectual treasure being openly distributed into the hands of the community?

Having solved volatility and liquidity in NuBits, Jordan and his team are moving ahead to cure the other black eye of Bitcoin - centralized exchanges.  As one of many who have suffered great losses through exchange collapse, I cannot be more certain that this is the vital next advance the democratization of money.  Personally, my cryptocurrency assets are out of the economy until something like B&C exchange is up and running.

In my mind, the tradition of security and fairness that lives on with Peercoin carries through to this auction.  It’s hard to imagine a less risky investment in the cryptocurrency space simply because one has here the opportunity to bid on a proven asset at possibly below market value.  Although I have no doubt about the capacity of Jordan, Sigmike, and erasmospunk to deliver on their promises, a winning bid in this auction immediately conveys value through the direct ownership of the NuShares.  Aquiring NuShares though this bid may be your last opportunity to build a sizable stake in the Nu network irrespective of the eventual success of B&C.

If, for some reason, you maintain no interest in a long-term investment in NuShares you should at least take heed of the success of NuBits over the past 9 months in upholding 1:1 USD parity against extremely deep volume through periods of extremely rapid BTC/USD volatility.  Jordan Lee promised a stable cryptocurrency, and he delivered on schedule.  Furthermore, he continues to demonstrate his perseverance in accepting criticism, learning from mistakes, and building the future as a full team effort with some of the leading innovators in cryptocurrency.  Bidding on NuShares through this auction is your opportunity to enable the freedom of us all -for the first time in modern history- to store wealth and engage in commerce liberated from centralized power.

If you own Bitcoin, you should be bidding on this proposal.
full member
Activity: 203
Merit: 100
There are now only 2 days left in the auction. You can bid by sending a BitMessage or email to the contact information specified in the original post.
full member
Activity: 203
Merit: 100
Thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread so far! We appreciate the thoughtful questions and comments.
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