Topic: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade - page 5. (Read 174430 times)

All I hear is BS... I have no longer interest in this project. You won't get half a dime from me

You are overly dramatic about it. Shareholders aren't dumb. They will listen to the users. You must understand that no one is going to develop a p2p exchange for free. Why should I give free money out to fund such development without expecting any profits? Why should anyone do it? Software development isn't cheap, you know. If you, as a user, are interested in voting on the matters then you are free to buy some blockshares so that your vote would count more than just an opinion from a potential user.

I don't know whether it's better. It's just different, e.g. in the way it offers trading pairs. B&C will offer trading of native assets instead of using proxy assets. This can remove friction.

And you can bet that B&C will have sufficient (US-)NBT liquidity. So you can effectively trade assets at pairs with "USD rates".
Does Openledger have pairs with synthetic fiat at a tight peg and decent volume?

Does Openledger have a client with that you can do your trades or are you limited to a website for your trading?
While it's expected to find websites that allow convenient access to the "B&C user accounts", the user account is on the B&C blockchain and the user can't be locked out. What happens to user funds on exchange, if https://bitshares.openledger.info is down due to technical or legal issues, DDoS'ed or unusable in any other way?

You might be able to DDoS B&C as well, but that will make BKS holders awfully rich and can't be sustained forever.
Users can't be locked out from their funds easily. They are handled by multisg through the signers.


None, that I'm aware of. Being signer doesn't create voting power. It's signing the tx, that are required for trading, what the signers are for. Voting is done by the BKS holders.

B&C user interests are of paramount interest for BKS holders. It's the users that consume BKC, which are required to pay fees and get destroyed by that. Destroying BKC means new BKC can get sold. That generates revenue (BTC), which BKS holders want to achieve (BTC will be distributed as dividends to BKS holders).
Signers are a kind of contract workers, hired by BKS holders.
If they don't behave, they'll get removed and replaced.

You seem to confuse decentralization with communism. Ownership of B&C and the signers are decentralized and distributed.

Users have all the power they need to have. They vote with their purses

This governance model (shareholders deciding by direct voting which way to go) proved to be very successful during all the development decisions and business process decisions Nu had to make since its beginning.
It's way more advances than what's used in traditional stock corporations. You don't need middlemen here!
As I said before, users already have a vote. They vote with they behaviour. If they don't come or leave the exchange, the BKS holders will hear that!
Users have an interest in using a convenient and cheap exchange.
BKS holders want to offer that, but still make money from it.
As the BKS holders funded this whole exchange, I think it's ok, if they have a say.
If users want to influence something at B&C directly, they might want to buy BKS?


Corporations who listen to their users are more successful than others - at least if there are alternatives; a monopoly is different.
B&C is not the only decentralized exchange approach.
B&C will need to listen to its users.

They will listen the same way corporations listen to their users but hey! it's okay, making profit out of them it's all that matters.

I'm still waiting for the answers of my questions

The operation cost of B&C is quite low, the hardware are dozens of low end PCs and neglectable power comsumption per year, or internet fee(probably already paid). B&C can survive with low income in long term.

And BKS holders will listen to the users who may ask for services on forum, of course, shareholders are not deaf.

Great business model! No users = no business

But it's okay... Profit is always FIRST, isn't it? B&C will be just another unsuccessful "decentralized" exchange

*1 It's sad to see a great and innovative idea being destroyed by the classical and primitive capitalist shareholders model which has shown that is not sustainable in the long term
Edit: *1

Simply put, democracy is a fallacy. In practice it doesn't work because human beings are not equal. In fact, they are very different and it's damn easy to inflate population with low value individuals. Everyone can make children, you don't even need a degree for that. But to educate one so that they would become a valuable member to the society is a whole different thing. What we see in Europe shows that politicians only care about votes and they aim to get the votes from migrants and other socialist parasites. As a result, foul laws are being passed and Europe moves through the spiral of self-destruction. That said, I wouldn't push that "users first" agenda so much. An exchange is a business, apply the rules of (anarcho) capitalism and you will see that B&C Exchange is perfect just the way it was designed.

Few questions:

• What makes B&C better than OpenLedger?
• What are the differences between BKS shareholders and signers in terms of voting power?
• How are you planning to take into consideration and defend the B&C user interests Vs BKS shareholders & signers?  

I see your voting system a bit too static and away from what decentralization means...You are giving zero power to your users which are the most important part of your project. You might have achieved a decentralized platform but its governance model defeats the whole idea that your are trying to sell. Why don't you make it a decentralized autonomous exchange (DAE) far from human conflict of interest. The running costs including developers would come out of the fees and donations and if there was a surplus the whole community could vote what to do with it via a smart voting system that takes into account the users voice, the developers voice and the infrastructure people voice. Perhaps this is the next thing after "Decentralized" exchanges...

Cheers

Recent updates:

1) Active testing continues on B&C Exchange v4.0.1.  

2) As development is quickly progressing with the recent hiring of eleven, we are becoming more active on Twitter. Please follow us at twitter.com/BC_Exchange for the latest development news.

3) We are still continuing to pursue new developer candidates to increase the pace of development.

As a reminder, please upgrade to B&C Exchange v4.0 if you haven't already done so, at bcexchange.org. This is a mandatory upgrade for all users.

Have you read through it yet? The main info is listed in the first post, while questions and answers about B&C Exchange are posted throughout the thread. Jordan just announced a new version release (v4.0) a couple posts above.

what is the latest on this thread, maybe I would be interested to be part of this thread

very excited!

I am excited to be able to announce the 4.0 release of B&C Exchange. It contains major protocol changes centering around the reputation system for signers, which is fully functional in this release.

We have implemented protocol voting in B&C, so when 90% of minted blocks have the upgraded protocol, the two week countdown to the actual protocol switch date will begin.

Once the switch occurs, shareholders will begin using the reputation voting system to elect reputed signers. @TomJoad has already indicated he will seek to be a signer. I am very interested to see who else will seek to become a B&C reputed signer. For those who are interested in becoming a signer, here is a summary of how to do that. Additional details can be found in the B&C Exchange design document.

Until now, active participation in B&C Exchange has been mostly restricted to developers. This release will change that as shareholders vote for reputed signers and reputed signers work with developers to bring B&C Exchange to full functionality in a 5.0 release.

I'm excited to be able to see the reputation system in action in just a few short weeks. I expect we will see quite a bit of discussion in the community about the reputation system and reputed signers going forward.

Here are the builds:

Download B&C Exchange 4.0 for Windows

Download B&C Exchange 4.0 for Linux

An OS X release will be available soon.

Here are some details about the features included in 4.0 and how to use them, provided by @CoinGame.

Welcome @Eleven to B&C exchange family and Task Force!

Things are getting more exciting each day!

Here is some content from a similar discussion on discuss.nubits.com that addresses your concern and some related issues:

Yes, it is our product. It is 2-2 multi-signature wallet.

VPS or dedicated server... It seems that  raspberrypi 3 is not as powerful as these
Btw, is it safe to put everything on a VPS server? I don't trust any big company at all.

To become a signer, you first need to appeal to shareholders to vote to increase your reputation. You, in this case, actually refers to your BlockShares public key you wish to use as your reputed signer identity.

I would recommend starting a new thread in the B&C Exchange section of discuss.nubits.com where you explain all the reasons why shareholders should vote for you as a signer.

Reputation voting will start once the protocol switch to 4.0 is complete.

Assuming you have success persuading shareholders to vote to raise your reputation, then you will need to decide which blockchains you wish to support. Only the Nu, B&C and Bitcoin blockchains will be supported at first. Let's say you decide to be a signer for only the B&C and Bitcoin blockchains, but not Nu. In that case, you will need to run a full Bitcoin client in addition to your B&C client. To have high availability, you will need to rent a VPS or dedicated server. You will need to configure your B&C Exchange client to work with your Bitcoin client. You will need to set up and back up wallets that you will use for signing.

Once you have your server or servers set up, you are ready to publish your deposit public key list for BlockShares, BlockCredits and Bitcoins. We will have an RPC that will allow you to do this. These deposit public keys will be consumed by exchange users, so you will need to publish new ones from time to time.

Everything else is automated. On a daily basis, you don't need to do anything except ensure your B&C client and Bitcoin client continue to run and communicate with one another. Signing and validations are all automated.

The best answer right now is a guesstimate by looking at the requirements of all the clients you'd like to support. You don't have to support all of them. You can pick and choose. Certainly Bitcoin could take a large chunk. I'm not sure but it might still work while utilizing the pruning feature in 0.12 since it supports wallet functionality. That could cut down some on the size.

I'd like to ask additional questions:
is it possible to state hardware requirements for a computer that is suitable for running a signing node?
How much RAM and CPU speed is necessary, how much I/O, bandwidth, etc.?
Is it possible to host a redundant solution (I suppose it's not easily possible, at least not as an integrated solution)?

Is a device like RaspberryPi3 suitable, or do you need more power?

As far as I understand, the reputed signers need to run nodes or have RPC access to daemons of the assets they offer signing for.
Can you please remind me: are only standard wallets supported or lightweight versions as well?
...signers for BTC will have a hard time, if they need to sync over 70 GB blockchain...