Manhattan U.S. Attorney Announces Arrest Of United States Citizen For Assisting

Theb

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 05, 2020, 06:42:07 PM

If it's proven then it's an extremely straightforward case. He went to an enemy of the US under almost universal sanctions and educated them further in how to evade them. It doesn't really get much more simple than that.

The nature of cryptocurrency and the nature of the DPRK's way of operating would make it a screaming no to me at least.

Well they have to prove that in court first and even with some accusations about Griffith renouncing his US citizenship and assets found in his home in Singapore it wasn't enough to convince the judge that Griffith doesn't deserve to post bail. That in a sense is a big step forward telling us that what the plaintiff have isn't that enough to put him in jail for a while, he was even allowed to use his passport domestically to meet his lawyers. If they only have a video of the actual event Griifth held and heard and see what he is talking about I think that would be enough to nail him in prison.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Theb on January 05, 2020, 12:43:38 PM

I'm not saying Virgil Griffith is guilty but the judge already agreed with a bail and he also doesn't view him as a flight risk whatsoever he even has a clean record on had to convince the judge even more. Another thing that makes me don't jump into any conclusion is I know for a fact that the authorities in the US are having several kinds of these witch hunts for far too long to sense that on matters like this so I cannot say that the US is seeing things clearly here or they are just easy to accuse someone on things they haven't really done.

If it's proven then it's an extremely straightforward case. He went to an enemy of the US under almost universal sanctions and educated them further in how to evade them. It doesn't really get much more simple than that.

The nature of cryptocurrency and the nature of the DPRK's way of operating would make it a screaming no to me at least.

target

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While banks are regularly laundering money were not sanctioned to such crime. They prosecute Griffith for simply teaching which isn't even proven yet.
Obviously Griffith is going to be face big players which will probably landed him to jail for life.

Quote from: chaoscoinz on January 05, 2020, 07:35:23 AM

I think the guy was noble for wanting to teach others, especially within a country like Korea but really he didn't practice his due diligence and is now facing the harshest of consequences. North Korea has a lot of smoke with the U.S, mainly because of all of the threats they have made to wipe it out. This guy Virgil is extremely lucky that he isn't being tried for treason or worse. He could at least have went to contact Dennis Rodman for help first, they literally love Rodman over there more than Michael Jordan as weird as it may sound.

If they are going to make this crime so big, they can charge treason. He was warned before he flew there.

Theb

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 05, 2020, 08:02:21 AM

If it were down to nobility he would've gone to Liberia to pass on his knowledge to recovering child soldiers. Instead he went straight to the capital of a regime that does not have a great deal of love in its heart for where he's from and is known to be using crypto to prop itself up.

It'll be interesting to see what the actual story is. I'm sure many people would be curious to attend something like that. Maybe he was paid to be there and knew why he was there. Maybe he was simply lured into a conversation to hand over some knowledge.

I'm not saying Virgil Griffith is guilty but the judge already agreed with a bail and he also doesn't view him as a flight risk whatsoever he even has a clean record on had to convince the judge even more. Another thing that makes me don't jump into any conclusion is I know for a fact that the authorities in the US are having several kinds of these witch hunts for far too long to sense that on matters like this so I cannot say that the US is seeing things clearly here or they are just easy to accuse someone on things they haven't really done.

Baofeng

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Quote from: chaoscoinz on January 05, 2020, 07:35:23 AM

I think the guy was noble for wanting to teach others, especially within a country like Korea but really he didn't practice his due diligence and is now facing the harshest of consequences. North Korea has a lot of smoke with the U.S, mainly because of all of the threats they have made to wipe it out. This guy Virgil is extremely lucky that he isn't being tried for treason or worse. He could at least have went to contact Dennis Rodman for help first, they literally love Rodman over there more than Michael Jordan as weird as it may sound.

Lol, Maybe the US should use Dennis Rodman as a ambassador of sort.

https://twitter.com/dennisrodman/status/1005395124350869511/

Seriously though, I don't see any noble thing from Virgil here, except maybe he got some incentives to travel to North Korea (I'm just speculating here). That's why all eyes are in this case because all of us are really lost as to what is the real reason of Virgil going to North Korea specially with his wealth of knowledge about crypto.

gentlemand

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Quote from: chaoscoinz on January 05, 2020, 07:35:23 AM

I think the guy was noble for wanting to teach others, especially within a country like Korea but really he didn't practice his due diligence and is now facing the harshest of consequences.

If it were down to nobility he would've gone to Liberia to pass on his knowledge to recovering child soldiers. Instead he went straight to the capital of a regime that does not have a great deal of love in its heart for where he's from and is known to be using crypto to prop itself up.

It'll be interesting to see what the actual story is. I'm sure many people would be curious to attend something like that. Maybe he was paid to be there and knew why he was there. Maybe he was simply lured into a conversation to hand over some knowledge.

chaoscoinz

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I think the guy was noble for wanting to teach others, especially within a country like Korea but really he didn't practice his due diligence and is now facing the harshest of consequences. North Korea has a lot of smoke with the U.S, mainly because of all of the threats they have made to wipe it out. This guy Virgil is extremely lucky that he isn't being tried for treason or worse. He could at least have went to contact Dennis Rodman for help first, they literally love Rodman over there more than Michael Jordan as weird as it may sound.

Baofeng

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on January 02, 2020, 02:08:31 AM

And it looks like there is a verdict already

:

Quote

Judge Broderick tells Virgil Griffith, "Laws in this country are not suggestions... Assisting foreign governments with money laundering is illegal."

Perhaps Judge Broderick blurted it out to show how big the accusations against Virgil.

We all know that the justice system, all evidence as weigh in, the judge determines the guilt of the defendant beyond reasonable doubt. Everyone here doesn't know whats Virgil do in North Korea, so this case will prove everything.

Yaunfitda

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So $1 million bond + putting his whole family up for collateral?

And it looks like there is a verdict already

:

Quote

Judge Broderick tells Virgil Griffith, "Laws in this country are not suggestions... Assisting foreign governments with money laundering is illegal."

Baofeng

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Update: The judge allow Virgil to be released on a $1 million bond:

https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1211682421634195456

You can follow that twitter account for a detailed timeline of the case.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: avikz on December 02, 2019, 09:34:44 AM

I support US government's move in this case! Let's not see it as an arrest of a crypto programmer to teach crypto technicalities! We also need to see where he had bestowed his crypto knowledge! North Korea is a dangerous country and with power in their hand, they can become a big threat to the world! So US government has taken the right step! The dictator of North korea is a psychopath and he can ruin the entire world! Helping such a terrorist, is definitely not a good deed!

it's a bit more complicated than "north korea bad, USA good". tabling the discussion of nuclear arms, the sanctions are having brutal effects on ordinary north koreans---shortage of food and vital medicine, for one. so sanctions evasion should also be viewed through a humanitarian lens.

Quote

The ban on employing North Korean workers in the construction sectors of Russia, China, and other countries deprived tens of thousands of North Korean workers of potential earnings, hurting workers and their families. Sanctions have hampered the activities of humanitarian agencies and foundations (U.S.-based humanitarian agencies have faced additional difficulties following the United States’ ban on travel to North Korea). As a result, large areas of the country face increased food insecurity and a shortage of vital medicines. The ban on imports of a number of goods (including oil and petroleum products in excess of volumes allowed by UNSC Resolutions, as well as luxury goods and foodstuffs) has fueled a growth in smuggling and “gray” import volumes as well as foreign-flagged vessel operations. In general, the number of intermediaries in supply chains has increased, meaning more suppliers along the way are charging an excess fare for “risks” undertaken, thus making the final cost of goods unaffordable for ordinary North Koreans.

gentlemand

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Quote from: ?? on ??

But we can't certain what advise he gives to North Korea though, obviously there will be no videos here. But let's see what US Attorney will present in this case.

It kind of reminds me of them trying to class encryption software as munitions to illegalise its export. He'll be regarded as wee knowledge bomb and they may not care what he actually came out with on the day.

An incredibly dimwitted move on his part. Even crypto dumbos know the DPRK have something to do with crypto and it's not for the greater good. Regardless of the injustice of this, it's one hell of a lot easier to simply say no thanks and get on with your life.

Harlot

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The question really here is if Griffith really presented crypto as a way to avoid intentionally or not. If he just lectured them about crypto and they are the ones to find loopholes about avoiding sanctions then Griffith isn't guilty of anything, he simply just presented cryptocurrencies and that's it, they are like trying a gun seller because their guns are used in a criminal activity which is something silly to begin with. Even if he is unconsciously teaching them about ways to avoid sanction it still doesn't merit any kind of offense as the North Koreans might have tricked him into saying some.

avikz

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I support US government's move in this case! Let's not see it as an arrest of a crypto programmer to teach crypto technicalities! We also need to see where he had bestowed his crypto knowledge! North Korea is a dangerous country and with power in their hand, they can become a big threat to the world! So US government has taken the right step! The dictator of North korea is a psychopath and he can ruin the entire world! Helping such a terrorist, is definitely not a good deed!

chaoscoinz

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Yes, I think that Virgil did violate the law, an international policy named [IEEPA] International Emergency Economic Powers Act. He went overseas and tried to supplant another country's financial and economic system by introducing a foreign type of asset investment in the form of cryptocurrencies.
According to the [IEEPA] you can't do that. It could fuck up another country's economy pretty badly. He should have practiced his due diligence and sought after legal guidance first before jumping the gun, flying out to a country that has strict laws against its citizens (North Korea), which has constant conflict with the U.S, trying to re-ducate their country's citizens.

Kemarit

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Quote from: SaShiRaJaVu on December 01, 2019, 09:57:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

But we can't certain what advise he gives to North Korea though, obviously there will be no videos here. But let's see what US Attorney will present in this case.

I doubt how they collected these information unless they are monitoring every communication, it is interesting how the US attorney will be presenting the case and what evidence they have against him and how they collected those information to begin with and i would like to know these technical things and what is shared to launder money and evade sanctions, is there a magical recipe Cheesy

and i guess they will come up with a finding that North Korea is using bitcoin to counter sanctions Grin

.

Yes, that is the big question mark here, how the hell they did collected all the evidences in the first place. Perhaps they have insider or spy within the North Korean circles and reported back what Virgil is presenting to the communist government?

So let's see how everything will pan out in the court, but it seems to me that Virgil is already guilty. And it also noted who will defend him, as this might set a precedent to the crypto community.

CryptoBry

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Of course, he can be arrested if he broke the law connected to the sanction against North Korea. As a USA citizen, he should know better and should have asked advice and permission first from the right agency in the USA on his travel and what the things he will be doing in that county. Just because a person is in cryptocurrency does not mean that we can skip the law and that authorities will just let us go scot-free. In fact, I would say that if we are in the cryptocurrency industry, the more we should be cautious and be aware of the existing laws on things we are doing. We should not be seeking to be above the law and then use the cause of freedom when we are caught doing something not allowed. This is just my personal opinion, by the way.

SaShiRaJaVu

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Quote from: ?? on ??

But we can't certain what advise he gives to North Korea though, obviously there will be no videos here. But let's see what US Attorney will present in this case.

I doubt how they collected these information unless they are monitoring every communication, it is interesting how the US attorney will be presenting the case and what evidence they have against him and how they collected those information to begin with and i would like to know these technical things and what is shared to launder money and evade sanctions, is there a magical recipe Cheesy

and i guess they will come up with a finding that North Korea is using bitcoin to counter sanctions Grin

.

Hueristic

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Griffith

Sounds like someone I would have liked, I can't imagine what he could have given them that they could not have learned one of a hundred other ways. It's not like all this isn't FOSS. I think he made enemies in high places and made the mistake of giving them the excuse they needed. This is what happens when TPTB fear you.

malevolent

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Looks pretty bad for him if true, what was he thinking? And why is it only now that he's getting arrested? Looks like US authorities weren't so confident they could extradite him from Singapore and decided to wait till him flies in to the US.

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