Cryptocurrency traders are coming together to sue binance for damages for the money they lost as the result of Binance outage. I experienced it too I couldn't login my account for days glad I didn't place any trade at the time.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/binance-crypto-service-outage-lawsuit-class-action-exchange-headquarters-decentralized-2021-08%3famp
Topic: Manipulation in Binance Futures Trading (Read 309 times)
Bitcoin got to $48,000 on the futures market and yet my sellborder at $40,000 wasn't triggered. I wonder how this happened without my sell order closing? Is Binance trying to manipulate the market because I'm sick of exchanges trying to liquidate traders
You don’t believe that short squeezes could liquidate accounts that have used high leverage to open their short positions? It’s obvious that small moves in price against the trade with 100x leverage is a quick liquidation.
I don't know if you understood my point. What Binance and all derivative exchanges I know use to liquidate positions is the Mark price because it's manipulation resistance as compared to the market price.
Let's assume during that time, you opened a short position at $40,000 and the liquidation price was at $43,000 but then a few seconds later, the market price of the perpetual contract you traded spikes to $48,000. At the same time the spot markets across all exchanges that Binance uses to calculate the index price stays at $40,000. There's no way your position is getting liquidated because the mark price hasn't crossed $43,000 during that short spike.
I would agree that people who might have managed to open long positions using high leverage during that flash spike may have been liquidated in an Instant, since the mark price was already low. I have ever experienced such a thing before on Bybit. It was a bug they corrected.
I’m confused. How could long positions be liquidated if there was a “flash spike”, and price went to the direction of their trade?
Using the same example, Let's assume during the spike, you managed to open a long position at $45,000 at market price of the perpetual contract you are trading, and your liquidation price is at $41,000 but remember the at the same time, spot markets are still at $40,000 which means the mark price is already below your liquidation price.
You would be liquidated in an instant before you even blink
I hope you now understand.
Perhaps this is not done by binance itself, but whales manipulate the market, place huge orders, thereby blocking everyone else with a wall, as soon as the price tag reaches the value they need, they leave the futures game in a huge plus. In general, it is not yet clear who is manipulating the market. I could of course be wrong ...
It's a pity that I can't post pictures.
I don’t think Biance’s long needle removed the position unless someone buy futures position at 48,000.
I don’t think Biance’s long needle removed the position unless someone buy futures position at 48,000.
A little late, but you can do so now since you're now a Junior Member
Usually I don't dwell with futures trading, became due to lack of knowledge about it. You need to learn everything from scratch when using futures, and most people I've known it's more like gambling in a casino.
Partly, I agree that there's a manipulation which is present with this system so I preferred to use spot trading instead of this system. It can't be manipulated since price was based on entire average btc price followed by different exchanges.
It can be manipulated, I mean the spot trading, it can be manipulated at some point. How can it be manipulated? We have seen it many times, price drops? Say to the whole world Amazon will accept bitcoin and watch it skyrocket, you have long futures opened right before so you can profit from it like crazy? All the better! Partly, I agree that there's a manipulation which is present with this system so I preferred to use spot trading instead of this system. It can't be manipulated since price was based on entire average btc price followed by different exchanges.
It has been manipulated a million times before and it will continue to be manipulated for a long time, hell Elon keep tweeting about doge is a pure manipulation, go do that about any stock and you will be penalized about it, Elon already did, he talked about his own stock back in the day on twitter and he got a huge punishment, and personal as well not for his company, he had to pay it from his own pocket (although he owns his companies as well so he can withdraw money if he wants to I am sure). So basically manipulation in spot market happens all the time.
Liquidation of high-leveraged short positions is more probable in these situations in my opinion. We can also see the same action in the chart when there’s a quick crash, liquidating leveraged long positions. Plus institutions don’t FOMO market buy like us plebs. Haha.
How are the liquidations of short positions possible if they are done on Mark price, not Market price?
You don’t believe that short squeezes could liquidate accounts that have used high leverage to open their short positions? It’s obvious that small moves in price against the trade with 100x leverage is a quick liquidation.
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I would agree that people who might have managed to open long positions using high leverage during that flash spike may have been liquidated in an Instant, since the mark price was already low. I have ever experienced such a thing before on Bybit. It was a bug they corrected.
I’m confused. How could long positions be liquidated if there was a “flash spike”, and price went to the direction of their trade?
~snip~
Bitcoin got to $48,000 on the futures market and yet my sellborder at $40,000 wasn't triggered. I wonder how this happened without my sell order closing? Is Binance trying to manipulate the market because I'm sick of exchanges trying to liquidate traders
Partly, I agree that there's a manipulation which is present with this system so I preferred to use spot trading instead of this system. It can't be manipulated since price was based on entire average btc price followed by different exchanges.
Liquidation of high-leveraged short positions is more probable in these situations in my opinion. We can also see the same action in the chart when there’s a quick crash, liquidating leveraged long positions. Plus institutions don’t FOMO market buy like us plebs. Haha.
How are the liquidations of short positions possible if they are done on Mark price, not Market price?I would agree that people who might have managed to open long positions using high leverage during that flash spike may have been liquidated in an Instant, since the mark price was already low. I have ever experienced such a thing before on Bybit. It was a bug they corrected.
Upon checking the 1m timeframe, it's probably an institution putting a position on BTC.
It occurred that fast, maybe it's just a single trader and fat-fingered it or something. I doubt they would admit it or something.
Same, I found that with futures trading sometimes if the trade is for a split second no orders are being triggered. It seems that the same thing happened here. Sure, it may be a very clever manipulation and nobody will own it, it is just the things we have to bear I guess. It occurred that fast, maybe it's just a single trader and fat-fingered it or something. I doubt they would admit it or something.
I do not think that it was binance's own doing, it is obvious that there is some sort of situation where some other person did it. However this is understandable, and I am very very happy about it as well. You may think why are you happy that some people lost money?
But the ones that lost it were people who shorted bitcoin and as a long term investor to crypto I really do not like people who short it, is this "nice" thing to do? No of course not, being happy that some others lost money is not nice but that is exactly what shorters do, they are happy whenever bitcoin falls down, hell they make profit when I lose money, hence I do not think that there is any new blood spilled over short futures end up losing money, it is something I wish and hope for because whenever they end up losing money that means I end up making profit anyway.
But the ones that lost it were people who shorted bitcoin and as a long term investor to crypto I really do not like people who short it, is this "nice" thing to do? No of course not, being happy that some others lost money is not nice but that is exactly what shorters do, they are happy whenever bitcoin falls down, hell they make profit when I lose money, hence I do not think that there is any new blood spilled over short futures end up losing money, it is something I wish and hope for because whenever they end up losing money that means I end up making profit anyway.
It's brutal manipulation but I have one more explanation for this. Look, I am not an expert at trading so please correct me if I am wrong.
This is what might have happened.
Just a small trade was somehow executed at 48k which set the highest marker @48k but because it was just a single trade and the market didn't stay there for much longer, orders were not filled. I believe there are many orders and maybe some were triggered some not.
But again, this is just my theory and the trade should have triggered normally.
I have to say that may not be the case since it was not fully covered. This is basically something that requires all the sell orders until 48k is covered for a while and then dropped, which we all know didn't happen, if it was just one order, and there were people selling for 40k then even if you fatfinger it then you get to do 40k and when your money runs out that stops, so you can take up a bit but not that much.This is what might have happened.
Just a small trade was somehow executed at 48k which set the highest marker @48k but because it was just a single trade and the market didn't stay there for much longer, orders were not filled. I believe there are many orders and maybe some were triggered some not.
But again, this is just my theory and the trade should have triggered normally.
What I believe happened was someone put a huge amount of money there, bought it there, then the price went low, so a big whale ended up buying a lot of bitcoin at those prices. Either that or it was just a technical error, which does happen time to time, we have seen ethereum dropping to cents from technical errors as well, just a second and not longer so it didn't hurt the market and same probably happened here, one mistake and that's it, something small.
Yeah, I do not think there was anything malicious from anyone on this. Very clearly a glitch from the platform and no one benefited so other than a data spike that might mess up some TA, nothing happened.
Many people feel that the Binance incident has no impact on ordinary futures investors, but is just a small malfunction. But I think they are wrong. If the stop loss is set at 39,000, then there will be a stampede because of too many short sellers. In the end, your market price stop loss transaction price will be 48,000 instead of 39,000.
This also reflects the importance of isolated.
I really still do not think there is an impact because no actual trades were settled because of this glitch. But ok,,, let us say market price stop loss is 48k, but that as well did not happen on the glitch, so the trade would have been left alone, or refunded at worst case scenario no? Or maybe I do not understand how it works on Binance:)
this is must be like a glitch from binance . these kinds are used to liquidate traders, have seen scenarios like this from bitmex where traders were also liquidated with this kind of wickshunting. this might seem like a copy strategy from bitmex, who knows.
It's brutal manipulation but I have one more explanation for this. Look, I am not an expert at trading so please correct me if I am wrong.This is what might have happened.
Just a small trade was somehow executed at 48k which set the highest marker @48k but because it was just a single trade and the market didn't stay there for much longer, orders were not filled. I believe there are many orders and maybe some were triggered some not.
But again, this is just my theory and the trade should have triggered normally.
Liquidation of high-leveraged short positions is more probable in these situations in my opinion. We can also see the same action in the chart when there’s a quick crash, liquidating leveraged long positions. Plus institutions don’t FOMO market buy like us plebs. Haha.
Maybe they needed money and decided to manipulate it for a second and just liquidate positions to fund their wallets? Lol. The difference between us plebs and institutions is the buying power, right? And if we combine all the plebs' power, we can overrun the power that they have? That's what happened with the Wallstreet bets and maybe crypto is next.
Who, the plebs? It could also be the combination of some whales and over-leveraged plebs. Which, in my opinion, might be easy to crash the current surge, because the whales could also reverse their positions and have the bearish plebs to take over-leveraged short positions with them, causing liquidations of the bullish plebs’ long positions.
If there's no one got liquidated then it's probably just a glitch but if it happens like 2 or 3 times already, something is really funnier than a glitch. This is likely the reason why they also reduce the leverage to 20x for all, I didn't read the entire news feed but it's what is said recently.
If someone set 100x and a rich futures traders want to win, he could probably manipulate the trend for himself. depends on the motivation.
If someone set 100x and a rich futures traders want to win, he could probably manipulate the trend for himself. depends on the motivation.
Liquidation of high-leveraged short positions is more probable in these situations in my opinion. We can also see the same action in the chart when there’s a quick crash, liquidating leveraged long positions. Plus institutions don’t FOMO market buy like us plebs. Haha.
Maybe they needed money and decided to manipulate it for a second and just liquidate positions to fund their wallets? Lol. The difference between us plebs and institutions is the buying power, right? And if we combine all the plebs' power, we can overrun the power that they have? That's what happened with the Wallstreet bets and maybe crypto is next. Upon checking the 1m timeframe, it's probably an institution putting a position on BTC.
It occurred that fast, maybe it's just a single trader and fat-fingered it or something. I doubt they would admit it or something.
It occurred that fast, maybe it's just a single trader and fat-fingered it or something. I doubt they would admit it or something.
Liquidation of high-leveraged short positions is more probable in these situations in my opinion. We can also see the same action in the chart when there’s a quick crash, liquidating leveraged long positions. Plus institutions don’t FOMO market buy like us plebs. Haha.
Yeah, I do not think there was anything malicious from anyone on this. Very clearly a glitch from the platform and no one benefited so other than a data spike that might mess up some TA, nothing happened.
I did not know liquidations happened on mark price though,,, how did all the other ones on bitmex for example happen which has even larger liquidity?
But I think they are wrong. If the stop loss is set at 39,000, then there will be a stampede because of too many short sellers. In the end, your market price stop loss transaction price will be 48,000 instead of 39,000.
This also reflects the importance of isolated.
I also want to post the reason for this incident.
This is a message sent by a Chinese KOL in the personal media.I translated it, and it roughly means like this
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Many people asked me what was wrong, I just want to say that I was tricked by Binance and the loss was very heavy!
I made Binance Perpetual Futures 48000 incident(this is not what I said, but Binance official said it to me), I don't want to talk about the specific details.
Stay away from futures!
He probably lost 20-30 million U.S. dollars from this incident. I made Binance Perpetual Futures 48000 incident(this is not what I said, but Binance official said it to me), I don't want to talk about the specific details.
Stay away from futures!
This was already concluded that it was some form of API glitch. Nobody got liquidated at that price AND nobody who had limit sell orders got their orders filled. Normally when people are about to get liquidated its never on the last price, it always on the mark price. So even if it did have a large spike like that, nobody would of been liquidated.
Only orders that would of filled up there would of been the limit sells and if someone used a stop loss, since stop losses usually are based on last price. So I don't think its manipulation. You would be surprised how deep the liquidity is on Binance and its not that easy to manipulate the price. Maybe on smaller exchanges but not binance.
Only orders that would of filled up there would of been the limit sells and if someone used a stop loss, since stop losses usually are based on last price. So I don't think its manipulation. You would be surprised how deep the liquidity is on Binance and its not that easy to manipulate the price. Maybe on smaller exchanges but not binance.
Yeah, I do not think there was anything malicious from anyone on this. Very clearly a glitch from the platform and no one benefited so other than a data spike that might mess up some TA, nothing happened.
I did not know liquidations happened on mark price though,,, how did all the other ones on bitmex for example happen which has even larger liquidity?
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