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Topic: Manipulator manipulating on an unprecedented level - page 2. (Read 5641 times)

legendary
Activity: 2198
Merit: 1311
Can we calculate how much coins the 'mystery miner' would possess?

I still think someone just wanted to cash out and just didn't care.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I think that's the most likely scenario.  We're just seeing very early adopters cashing out.  Remember, lots of those guys bought/mined when bitcoin was way below $1.  Selling at $3, $2.50, or even $1 will still yield tremendous profit.  I think we've got a lot more downside to go as more early adopters get out while they can still get a ridiculous return on their investment.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
The only thing "the manipulator" wants is for the price to go down. There is no profit motivation in the way that he sells.

He sells on Sunday night/Monday morning knowing that most MtGox accounts do not get filled after the weekend until Monday evening.

If it was someone wanting to drop their BTC they would wait until during the week and drop in small portions when the price is high and people have cash in their accounts.

Makes me think of something someone mentioned where they had a conversation with an NSA friend of theirs who said that Bitcoin would be gone in 2 years. The government already does market manipulation, they would not need much to destroy Bitcoin from a financial perspective.

Been saying this all along.

Get the price down enough so that nobody is profitable anymore -> miners quit -> difficulty drops -> system can be 51%ed very easily without $13 million etc. -> our wallets are wiped -> people lose confidence in the system -> no more problems with SR or other illegal things the gov. did not want you to buy.

donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
Heh, if it keeps dropping low enough, then someday maybe I can become "The Manipulator."  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1020
@Revalin: thanks for sharing your analysis! very interesting.

it would be interesting to have an up to date graph like that on bitcoinX...
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
Can we calculate how much coins the 'mystery miner' would possess?

I still think someone just wanted to cash out and just didn't care.

Makes perfect sense to me.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
The only thing "the manipulator" wants is for the price to go down. There is no profit motivation in the way that he sells.

He sells on Sunday night/Monday morning knowing that most MtGox accounts do not get filled after the weekend until Monday evening.

If it was someone wanting to drop their BTC they would wait until during the week and drop in small portions when the price is high and people have cash in their accounts.

Makes me think of something someone mentioned where they had a conversation with an NSA friend of theirs who said that Bitcoin would be gone in 2 years. The government already does market manipulation, they would not need much to destroy Bitcoin from a financial perspective.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
I think I've got it all wrong.
 I was thinking that the Manipulator is a guy with lots and lots of funds but never crossed my mind that it could be some kind of organization with pocket change.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g


Fat pixels for people who can't figure out Ctrl-+.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g


What an interesting day.  I'm usually not a believer in The Manipulator.  Most of the time people say it and I look at the charts and I see some walls on either side of the spread representing some arbitrageurs or market makers leaving their hook in the water, moving in rational ways predicted by commissions and profits.  I post my charts, say "point him out", no one does other than saying "OMFG walls", I roll my eyes and move on.

Today's different.  This was really interesting behavior by a single entity, either an individual or a coordinated group.

The left side of my chart is 22:00 GMT.  Interesting moves:

0:50: Mr. X sells 50k.  Crash.
1:00: the market behaves normally.
1:50: Mr. M: I'm in.  $2.50.
2:30: M: $2.55
2:50: Mr. X sells through him.  Ouch.
3:00: The price is creeping up and M starts backing it as it goes to prevent any sells from freaking the little run.
3:15: He pulls back to $2.50.  Perhaps he's hoping 15 minutes of running it up is enough to start a rally?  If so it didn't work.  Crash to $2.50.
3:30: Mr. X sells right through his wall.  That was expensive.  M puts it right back up.
3:55: Repeat.
4:00: M pulls back to $2.40.
4:15: Down to $2.30.  I'm pretty sure he pulled the $2.40 wall before the dump hit it.  I'll have to check trade history to be sure.
4:20: He puts in a 3 bid spread.  

... And after that, the dumps stop.  The market starts to behave normally again.  He catches a couple more small sells, the market continues to drift up, and he keeps backing it.

Mr M is clearly one entity.  Mr X is uncertain.  Someone wanted to unload some coins, but it's hard to say if it's just one guy.  Some are probably panic sells.  Some are probably exploiting M's bid wall - hey, if you want out, the time to do it is when someone's putting up a huge wall that you can dump into!

This cost M a whole lot of fiat.  He gained a whole lot of BTC, and saved the price.  I hope he wants them because he won't be able to unload them for a while.

But why?  I can speculate two reasons:

#1, for Bitcoin's sake: he's willing to throw a bunch of money into stabilizing Bitcoin.  That could be MagicalTux or anyone else who has a financial interest in a strong Bitcoin economy.  It could be someone simply doing it for altruistic reasons, or because they hate PayPal.  (Revalin holds his fist in the air!)

#2, corner a market and get rich quick!  This is very hard to do right since you have to convince other people to do your work for you.  If he has a whole lot of BTC and wants to cash out he'll need to create market depth.  By propping up the market at $2.50-$3.00 he can put an end to The Great 2011 BitBear.  By finishing Despair as quickly and cleanly as possible the market will regain confidence and hopefully start rallying again.  As it does, he can gradually sell off his holdings starting around $3.50-4.00.  Depending how much he has to dump that may prevent another bubble from forming (no complaints there); despite his dumping there may be a strong stream of investors to buy his BTC since they are no longer Despairing.  If he's really good he can run it up higher before he sells...  bigger risks, bigger rewards.

If it's #2, he'll need to stir up some hype soon.  All the stability in the world doesn't do any good if no one is watching.  I still contend that the fundamentals are very poor, so the price isn't going to rise on it's own without another big influx of outside interest.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
But the bidwall is HUGE. he could loose a ton of money if another dumps thousands of coins.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
IMO he figured the price would be creeping slowly down anyways so he might just dump now.

That's what I figure. There is little new interest in bitcoin and 7200 coins a day is a lot for this market to bear without the price dropping over time. Time to cash out the winnings and hose everyone. Then when/if the price starts rising at some point far in the future, the process can start all over again with one of the other 15 or 20 people that have enough coins to do this crap.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
IMO he figured the price would be creeping slowly down anyways so he might just dump now.

The bid-walls were just to catch any panic sells. Smart move.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
Who the hell is this guy? And more important, what does he wants?

I would assume he tries to win money either by:
1. stopping bitcoin going under $2 and make it successful, starting a rally
2. long-term invest in cheap bitcoins
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
It's my own software.  I wrote it a while back while training a bot.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP


This is the way I like to view market depth.

x: 1min/px
y: $0.01/px
z: log(price)

Tick marks on top are at the top of each hour.

Edit: The bidwalls are very cleanly visible on this one (the bright red pixels).  I'd say that this is the first time I've seen a wall this large in control of a single person.  IMO it's not manipulation; someone is just buying up cheap coins.  But they sure have a lot of fiat on hand!
How did you get this chart?
thx!


Oh... silly me  Grin
back to the topic:
Manipulators gonna manipulate!
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
I see.  I'm much too lazy to bother with that kind of eye candy.  It'd look great if someone did it, though.  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 504
^SEM img of Si wafer edge, scanned 2012-3-12.
It is an actual 3d chart!  Mine just switches the axes:  mtgoxlive has time in Z (fading), whereas I put depth in Z, and the history is off to the left (one hour per tick).  My way makes time easier to see at the expense of being fuzzier on depth.
Agreed, but, I want all variables on axes, not in color or fading lines Tongue And rotatable, and zoomable, etc etc. That'd be cool though.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
Can't you make this an actual 3d chart, btw? Like mtgoxlive, but instead of ghosting, just have old positions receding into the background…

It is an actual 3d chart!  Mine just switches the axes:  mtgoxlive has time in Z (fading), whereas I put depth in Z, and the history is off to the left (one hour per tick).  My way makes time easier to see at the expense of being fuzzier on depth.

Buying cheap? Wait till it's under $1...

No argument; I'm very bearish based on fundamentals.  "Cheap" is just relative to the short term.
sr. member
Activity: 254
Merit: 250
Buying cheap? Wait till it's under $1...
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 504
^SEM img of Si wafer edge, scanned 2012-3-12.
They could very well have sold a lot of bitcoins over the previous months…

Can't you make this an actual 3d chart, btw? Like mtgoxlive, but instead of ghosting, just have old positions receding into the background…
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