Many merchants are worried about high transaction fees

Kakmakr

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I think we should have been past that issue a long time ago, because developers have created side-chains like the "Lighting Network" to provide for methods to pay almost zero fees.

I am not a big supporter of this, because I believe developers should focus on ways to reduce high transaction fees, without taking it off0chain. When the Block reward expire, transaction fees must replace it.... so if we do away with most of the miners fees.... what will be the incentive for miners to mine? Roll Eyes

death69

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Yo, I tottallyy feel you on this one, bro! High transaction fees are a real pain in the butt for both crypto busineses and individuals alike. As the crypto craze continues to go wild, it's superr important to find ways to solve this issue. One solution that's currently being tossed around is the use of layer-2 solutons, like Lightnin Network and Plazma. These guys are designed to reduce transaction fees and increase scalabilty. They work by processing transactons off the main blockchain, which allows them to handle a much larger volume of transactions at a much lower cost.

Another possible solution is to ditch Bitcoin and switch to alternative cryptos like Litcoin or Bitcoin Cash, which offer lower transaction fees and faster confirmation times. But of course, like anything else in life, there are always risks and challanges involved when you take that route. So, its important to weigh your options and do your research before making any bigg moves.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: mk4 on February 17, 2023, 01:24:06 AM

Also — yes, fees can be quite high at times, but this is why smart people are testing out solutions for people to be able to transact in a cheaper manner. (e.g. sidechains, layer-2s, etc)

With bitcoin, fee is not always high unless sometimes during massive bull market that the network is very congested, I mean the mempool congestion. Bitcoin fee is low than fiat fee. If talking about altcoins, almost all of them have very low fees that fiat fee can not be compared with at all, only ether that I know with a very high fee with altcoins.

borovichok

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on February 17, 2023, 11:39:21 AM

Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many businesses are accepting payments in crypto, apart from other issues the main pain point that hurts them the most is Transaction fees.

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?

What’s your take on this situation guys?

Did you just woke up right from 2017/18? Because to my knowledge that was the last time that fees of bitcoin transactions were insanely high and for the last couple of years it stays just 1 sat/byte for most of the time.

For your information merchants are paying higher fees when it comes to digital payments like cards cause every payment processor like visa/master card charges 1 to3% for every transactions.

In the modern era, everything seems to be working perfectly good for merchants, although becoming a merchant is never an easy process, rather it's becoming impossible due to the complex KYC that one must undergo before becoming a merchant. Most times, your application can be paused for a year without consideration or feedback from the exchange team. Fees are getting cheaper with the endless efforts put in by moderators of crypto top exchanges. Merchants who are using exchanges like Binance for their online peer to peer (P2P) trading seems to be happy because their trading fees is smaller with gigantic transactions going smoothly on a daily basis. For those that switch to using cards, when bagging more cryptocurrency with cards, the higher the transaction volume, the higher the fees and vice versa.

rby

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Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many businesses are accepting payments in crypto, apart from other issues the main pain point that hurts them the most is Transaction fees.

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?

What’s your take on this situation guys?

Fees are not paid by the business owners but by those patronising the business. When they pay from their non custodial wallet the fee will be small compared to when they pay through exchanges. Exchanges charges two types of fees in the name of one. They charge transaction fees and they charge exchange fee all incorporated as transaction fees.
If your business is like coffee like type and frequents, it will be fine you consider using offchain solutions like LN for transaction.

stompix

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Quote from: mocacinno on February 17, 2023, 01:28:50 AM

Even IF the business had to pay the fee (which they don't, as detailed above), you should realize that accepting electronic payments isn't free either... It's actually quite expensive.

The business has to pay a fee, it's not the fee when the selling of the merchandise occurs but when the business tries to use the funds received as they will have to move those somewhere to spend it, either to an exchange or to some business partner, so both client and merchants will pay roughly the same fee.
As for the expensive part, it depends a lot on what you sell and what' your volume.

Quote from: mocacinno on February 17, 2023, 09:56:32 AM

And i heared that people with physical point of sale that require those payment machines pay a lot more...

It's 0.75% of the value per transaction for up to 10 000 transactions here, plus 35E the POS renting cost plus 5E the so-called service fee. More expensive than the same bank in Netherlands for example, cheaper than Barclay at 1.6% so not really that nice if you if you sell higher price goods but still cheaper than others and what some might expect.
Online payments, that's a different thing, same bank charges 2% on every sale.

Either way, small payments for groceries and others shouldn't be on chain transitions in the first place, and with LN the whole fee debate is meaningless.

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Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many businesses are accepting payments in crypto, apart from other issues the main pain point that hurts them the most is Transaction fees.

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?

What’s your take on this situation guys?

If you want to use bitcoin cheaper, it would be better to use a second tier solution such as Lightning network or Liquid network.
and it all depends on how densely the blockchain works, and when you start making transactions, your wallet should suggest the most reasonable transaction fee for it. And if you think the transaction fee is too high, you can do it another time in the next few days.

mendace

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Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many businesses are accepting payments in crypto, apart from other issues the main pain point that hurts them the most is Transaction fees.

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?

What’s your take on this situation guys?

It is absolutely not true. You just need to use the right tools. For example, with Lightning Network, fees are practically non-existent, and transactions are fast. Therefore, this is a practical solution. In any case, if a trader refuses to accept payment in Bitcoin, he probably doesn't realize that he has lost the opportunity to have a good clientele who are willing to buy from him rather than from another

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many businesses are accepting payments in crypto, apart from other issues the main pain point that hurts them the most is Transaction fees.

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?

What’s your take on this situation guys?

Did you just woke up right from 2017/18? Because to my knowledge that was the last time that fees of bitcoin transactions were insanely high and for the last couple of years it stays just 1 sat/byte for most of the time.

For your information merchants are paying higher fees when it comes to digital payments like cards cause every payment processor like visa/master card charges 1 to3% for every transactions.

Yogee

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I'm surprised this old argument is still spread until today despite transaction fees now are significantly lower.

I pay my bills in fiat using online payment gateways and their service fee is higher than sending bitcoin on a normal day. I prefer to pay in btc or other crypto if merchants would accept such payment method.

Yatsan

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Might be centralized exchange which generates high transaction fees simply because of taxation ofcourse. There are trusted decentralized exchanges wherein an investor or individual may use to lessen the fees with withdrawal. Also, in some countries like mine, huge charges occur on the convertion from cryptocurrency to fiat and the other way around. If you are that dedicated for this industry, make use or simply use crypto to crypto transaction. Problem only is making use of their payments to sustain the business or what you are trying to merchant. Selling during market downfall is a bad idea. But during high times, selling might yield to regrets because of the tendency of bigger profit by waiting.

Flexystar

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I dont know when is the situation to find such high transaction fees? I keep seeing these posts all the time regarding very high fees. Well, if you think you are having higher fees then check your wallet settings which might be set to "priority" transaction. That will always eat up lot of fees per byte as compared to the Normal fees or even Low fees option.

I am not sure which wallet you are using but for me electrum and Mycelium has been lord blessings! Specifically Mycelium is good with easy to use UI and fee setter. Most of the times I am sending transactions which are above 20-50 bucks and setting my transaction speed to "Economy", This gives me fee of around 10-50 cents. I think it's really cheap considering you are sending it with various benefits (anonymous, no paper work, decentralized).

Quote from: mk4 on February 17, 2023, 01:24:06 AM

The blockchain transaction fees are paid by the payer though, not necessarily the business.

Also — yes, fees can be quite high at times, but this is why smart people are testing out solutions for people to be able to transact in a cheaper manner. (e.g. sidechains, layer-2s, etc)

...and obviously this is true as well because in my experience its me who always pay the fees and there is no such option to set the fees on the account of receiver. Definitely you need to either change your wallet and obviously stop using exchangers directly. They will eat up more than 0.25% in fees both maker and taker. If you are transacting out of the exchanger then consider it another charge.

aysg76

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Quote from: fadhilz123 on February 17, 2023, 07:20:02 AM

As long as you know crypto, what transactions have you seen with very high fees? Because in crypto there are many choices of networks for making transactions and usually on the same network it doesn't cost a lot, so this won't be so difficult for business people who accept payments in crypto. Moreover, the small fee is only charged to the sender, not the recipient and I think you need to know more about the transaction network models that exist in the crypto space now.

The fees is usually high when there are lot of transactions and congestion in memepool so the one with high fees have more chances of getting confirmed fast and you must mark your transactions as RBF and this is in case of bitcoin and generally it's not too much but if we say about coins like ETH then you can't imagine what the gas is when make people make transactions and it can't be affordable while making payments to merchants.You have to make transactions on the same chain and if you want to send other coins you have to exchange like you can't directly send ETH to bitcoin address so make sure about these things and fees will be dependent on the network congestion at the time which always vary we can't say it will cost less.

mocacinno

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Quote from: m2017 on February 17, 2023, 09:00:12 AM

--snip--
I don't think that 1-2$ is a significant loss for the business
--snip--

It's a loss they'll incur with most of their payment options... Not only with bitcoin...
I quickly glanced at what my friend is paying...
IDEAL costs about 30 cents per online transaction
MasterCard en Visa: 25 cents plus ~2-3% of the total value!
Bankcontact is about 40 cents per transaction
KBC, Belfius, ING Pay are about 25 cents + 1% of the transacted value
Paypal takes about 3% of the total value.

And i heared that people with physical point of sale that require those payment machines pay a lot more...

Even if a vendor accepts cash, he'll lose money by driving around to deposit the FIAT and get change.

Plus the loss they'll incure from chargebacks or fake money.

Accepting money is never free, but it's free for the merchant if he doesn't use a payment gateway... In this case, it's the buyer that pays a fee, so i think it's only fair if the vendor gives him a discount since accepting those funds is usually cheaper than accepting fiat (unless you got yourself a subscription with a payment gateway...). Offcourse consolidating crypto and exchanging to FIAT DO come at a price...

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Quote from: mk4 on February 17, 2023, 01:24:06 AM

The blockchain transaction fees are paid by the payer though, not necessarily the business.

Also — yes, fees can be quite high at times, but this is why smart people are testing out solutions for people to be able to transact in a cheaper manner. (e.g. sidechains, layer-2s, etc)

Even so, in a business fees are a problem because it involves profits. Payers want to get a worth it price and businesses want to make a profitable transaction. I think the two are interrelated in business. So far, I also feel that fees in crypto transactions are still relatively high for a transaction with a small value. At the moment I haven't found a cryptocurrency that offers a small fee. If anyone knows please let me know Grin

m2017

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Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many businesses are accepting payments in crypto, apart from other issues the main pain point that hurts them the most is Transaction fees.

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?

What’s your take on this situation guys?

It would be good to know where you got the information that the high cost of bitcoin transaction is worrying merchants. Have you done your own research on this?

I was not too lazy and checked the information on the Internet about the cost of bitcoin transactions at the moment:

~ $0.33 average transaction fee per mempool
~ $1.70 average transaction fee in the last block

After all, you could first search for information and only after that put it up for discussion, right?

I don't think that 1-2$ is a significant loss for the business and will not prevent them from making their profit, even taking into account these insignificant expenses.

My attitude towards these commissions is quite normal.

That bitcoin transactions are expensive is mostly a myth.

hugeblack

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Where did you get this information from? How much is the fee percentage? 1% to 3% is nothing compared to the fluctuation of the price, which may reach more than that daily, and the high price of Bitcoin means that all these fees are long-term gains if the store decides to keep them.
There are also a lot of solutions such as payment by lightning network, where fees can be close to zero.

fadhilz123

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Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many businesses are accepting payments in crypto, apart from other issues the main pain point that hurts them the most is Transaction fees.

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?

What’s your take on this situation guys?

As long as you know crypto, what transactions have you seen with very high fees? Because in crypto there are many choices of networks for making transactions and usually on the same network it doesn't cost a lot, so this won't be so difficult for business people who accept payments in crypto. Moreover, the small fee is only charged to the sender, not the recipient and I think you need to know more about the transaction network models that exist in the crypto space now.

DaveF

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The only way I can see a merchant being worried about high fees is if they are running their own node to take payments and then converting their coins later to cover expenses.

BUT, most of them that I know of fall into 2 categories.

1) Those that don't care since they are using a gateway that does it for them so they get fiat imminently through their processor and fees don't enter the picture
2) Those that do it themselves that will plan a bit to see if they can get a bit more fiat when the price of BTC rises in which case a few sats more for fees is not that big a deal

Unless I am missing something I can't see them caring about fees anyplace.

-Dave

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Quote from: coinremitter on February 17, 2023, 01:16:54 AM

Many crypto payments are charging higher transaction fees and what has left in the hand of merchants?
What’s your take on this situation guys?

As said, it's not normal to ask for higher fees since the buyer sends the funds and pays the network fee. But I can easily guess that some payment processors may try to get some extra money by exploiting the busier-than-usual mempool and the lack of knowledge. I would not be surprised if BitPay does this (again) in order to convince people use the altcoin they're supporting.

I guess that the merchants in question are using the wrong payment processors and have to DYOR and change to different ones.
Or, if there's a bit of technical knowledge, consider installing your own BTCPay server.

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