Margin price estimation of USB Block Erupter

tom_o

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Quote from: vm1990 on June 25, 2013, 01:32:06 PM

Quote from: Global BTC on June 25, 2013, 01:22:33 PM

So maybe $4 for all components, excluding the bitcoin ASIC? That puts the total margin price at $10 per stick.

id probably say about $15 total to include manufacturing and all the background stuff maybe testing to but yeh Avalon are really screwing people over for these but does that really surprise anyone the company with the least amount of resorses managed to pull the rabbit out of the hat and are quite welcome to make as much profit as they can out of it

and there still the only really player in the market thanks to all these idiots that have let the projects die or tried to over design things like BFL

Avalons strategy of going with more chips for the price of power worked they required far less design and where much much easier to get made.... they also went with china to make the things which in my books on getting the things to market will beat anything made in the EU or USA by months

ill give it to the chine's when it comes to building and getting it done fast there the ones to go with

These block erupters are from ASICMINER not Avalon btw.

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:48:47 PM

Quote from: PeZ on June 25, 2013, 01:46:22 PM

Add a cute 40mm silent fan; http://www.quietpc.com/nf-a4x10

and dont forget the power there already on the very edge of usb 2 capability to get more power they would have to go usb 3 or even external power sources...

Those are 0.6w at 12v (50ma!), they'll draw even less at 5v (USB spec is 5v*500ma=2.5w); you could run at least 10 off a standard USB socket!

vm1990

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Quote from: seleme on June 25, 2013, 10:07:30 PM

You guys don't have idea, they are good Samaritans and are doing wonders for the network. We should all support them Tongue

At times, they were making some 230$ on 250$ product. And morons were lining all over the forum to send them the money, lol

They+re worse than BFL. BFL offered great opportunity to people but fucked it up in the process (though being utter twats in the process too), these guys were and are deliberately and cold blooded fucking up bitcoin community.

i actually respect asicminer for beating everyone to market by a hell of a gap... maybe bfl could learn something but that said they are still expensive for what they are but that happens when your only other real competition mess up so many times

if i knew bfl where going to be this far off the deadline i would have gone into the race with myself..... or maybe designed a super fpga with a few arm chips or cyclone chips

bystander

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From their website:

"2,000 Bitcoins have been reserved for the re-investment:

1. Deposits for the long-term pre-order of hard-to-get ICs.
2. Costs of mass production of Block Erupter USB sticks."

So perhaps it took around 250k USD to start, not sure how many they've sold so far and how many they will sell. On my customs declaration form for their shipment, they wrote a value of $99 ea for test pcb boards. It doesn't mean anything, but it's interesting nonetheless.

With the 282mh open source usb sticks at around $30/ea on the horizon, they're ahead of the curve with their new pricing. Maybe they just had to move a massive load asap.

seleme

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Duelbits.com

You guys don't have idea, they are good Samaritans and are doing wonders for the network. We should all support them Tongue

At times, they were making some 230$ on 250$ product. And morons were lining all over the forum to send them the money, lol

They+re worse than BFL. BFL offered great opportunity to people but fucked it up in the process (though being utter twats in the process too), these guys were and are deliberately and cold blooded fucking up bitcoin community.

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: lazydna on June 25, 2013, 04:24:31 PM

ASICminer appreciates your continued donations.

It's like scamming, but without scamming!

lazydna

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ASICminer appreciates your continued donations.

Global BTC

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on June 25, 2013, 03:01:32 PM

Just being a little nitty here but there is a substantial difference between mark up and gross (profit) margin. While it doesn't change your end result in this case as I assume most people understand your meaning, technically there is a big difference. FYI it is impossible to have 100% gross profit margin unless your cost of goods is zero, it is also impossible to have more than a 100% gross margin.

Good point, I changed the OP.

Flying Hellfish

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: Global BTC on June 25, 2013, 08:46:16 AM

I've been trying to estimate the margin cost for ASICMINER to produce the USB Block Erupter.

Given that the processing unit that is placed on the stick has similar characteristics to Avalons chips, I'm assuming the cost per chip is also similar. Avalon are selling their chips for BTC0,078 per chip, but I don't know what profit margin they are using at that. Let's assume 100%. That means the margin price per chip is BTC0,039, ~4 US$.

The chip is not the only thing on the stick, but the other components are very cheap. Say $1 for the rest of the components, $1 for the PCB and $1 for the manufacturing process. That's a total of $7 per stick.

Thoughts? If you have any other way of estimating the margin cost, please post it in this thread.

Just being a little nitty here but there is a substantial difference between mark up and gross (profit) margin. While it doesn't change your end result in this case as I assume most people understand your meaning, technically there is a big difference. FYI it is impossible to have 100% gross profit margin unless your cost of goods is zero, it is also impossible to have more than a 100% gross margin.

vm1990

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Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:48:47 PM

Quote from: PeZ on June 25, 2013, 01:46:22 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:42:38 PM

0.3BTC is a fair price for these. 0.5BTC with a board populated with 4 chips would be better for everyone!

Unfortunately the heat produced by one asic chip is already too much.

Add a cute 40mm silent fan; http://www.quietpc.com/nf-a4x10

and dont forget the power there already on the very edge of usb 2 capability to get more power they would have to go usb 3 or even external power sources...

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: PeZ on June 25, 2013, 01:46:22 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:42:38 PM

0.3BTC is a fair price for these. 0.5BTC with a board populated with 4 chips would be better for everyone!

Unfortunately the heat produced by one asic chip is already too much.

Add a cute 40mm silent fan; http://www.quietpc.com/nf-a4x10

PeZ

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Activity: 297

Merit: 250

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:42:38 PM

0.3BTC is a fair price for these. 0.5BTC with a board populated with 4 chips would be better for everyone!

Unfortunately the heat produced by one asic chip is already too much.

Global BTC

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Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:26:35 PM

ASICs using existing tech are generally between $0.5-$2 per chip dependant on order volume.

Is it safe to assume that the marginal cost of the ASIC used is $2 or less?

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: joeventura on June 25, 2013, 01:40:43 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:37:32 PM

Quote from: joeventura on June 25, 2013, 01:33:01 PM

I think you are a little low.

Things you did not consider:

PCB price to design, build and mass produce.
Fabrication cost of device (assembly, attach heat sink/case)
Fabrication of heat sink and case
Cost to print pretty logo on case

Here is my best guess:

ASIC chip: $7
Other chips: $4
PCB/USB Plug: $3
Case/Heatsink $3
Assembly $2
Packaging $1

Total price $20 out the door.

Many knuckleheads on this website and Ebay paid (and are still paying) $230 USD (1000%+ markup) on this item

What is even funnier is at $20 a stick the people making these are sticking them in USB hubs at $20 a pop and mining 50-100Gh for about $60 a GH which is pretty reasonable for delivery today.

Disagree their chip isn't new enough tech to demand such a high price especially after NRE has long since been covered. They are paying a lot less than $7 for 300mh/s.

Fair enough, then it may be $17 out the door.

0.3BTC is a fair price for these. 0.5BTC with a board populated with 4 chips would be better for everyone!

Global BTC

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Quote from: joeventura on June 25, 2013, 01:33:01 PM

Things you did not consider:

PCB price to design, build and mass produce.

Research, design costs and so on aren't included in marginal cost. Here's a definition:

Quote

In economics and finance, marginal cost is the change in the total cost that arises when the quantity produced changes by one unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_cost

Still, you might be right that I'm a little low on the marginal cost.

joeventura

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Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 25, 2013, 01:37:32 PM

Quote from: joeventura on June 25, 2013, 01:33:01 PM

I think you are a little low.

Things you did not consider:

PCB price to design, build and mass produce.
Fabrication cost of device (assembly, attach heat sink/case)
Fabrication of heat sink and case
Cost to print pretty logo on case

Here is my best guess:

ASIC chip: $7
Other chips: $4
PCB/USB Plug: $3
Case/Heatsink $3
Assembly $2
Packaging $1

Total price $20 out the door.

Many knuckleheads on this website and Ebay paid (and are still paying) $230 USD (1000%+ markup) on this item

What is even funnier is at $20 a stick the people making these are sticking them in USB hubs at $20 a pop and mining 50-100Gh for about $60 a GH which is pretty reasonable for delivery today.

Disagree their chip isn't new enough tech to demand such a high price especially after NRE has long since been covered. They are paying a lot less than $7 for 300mh/s.

Fair enough, then it may be $17 out the door.

Bitcoinorama

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: joeventura on June 25, 2013, 01:33:01 PM

I think you are a little low.

Things you did not consider:

PCB price to design, build and mass produce.
Fabrication cost of device (assembly, attach heat sink/case)
Fabrication of heat sink and case
Cost to print pretty logo on case

Here is my best guess:

ASIC chip: $7
Other chips: $4
PCB/USB Plug: $3
Case/Heatsink $3
Assembly $2
Packaging $1

Total price $20 out the door.

Many knuckleheads on this website and Ebay paid (and are still paying) $230 USD (1000%+ markup) on this item

What is even funnier is at $20 a stick the people making these are sticking them in USB hubs at $20 a pop and mining 50-100Gh for about $60 a GH which is pretty reasonable for delivery today.

Disagree their chip isn't new enough tech to demand such a high price especially after NRE has long since been covered. They are paying a lot less than $7 for 300mh/s, as are Avalon.

joeventura

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 500

I think you are a little low.

Things you did not consider:

PCB price to design, build and mass produce.
Fabrication cost of device (assembly, attach heat sink/case)
Fabrication of heat sink and case
Cost to print pretty logo on case

Here is my best guess:

ASIC chip: $7
Other chips: $4
PCB/USB Plug: $3
Case/Heatsink $3
Assembly $2
Packaging $1

Total price $20 out the door.

Many knuckleheads on this website and Ebay paid (and are still paying) $230 USD (1000%+ markup) on this item

What is even funnier is at $20 a stick the people making these are sticking them in USB hubs at $20 a pop and mining 50-100Gh for about $60 a GH which is pretty reasonable for delivery today.

vm1990

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Activity: 1540

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Global BTC on June 25, 2013, 01:22:33 PM

So maybe $4 for all components, excluding the bitcoin ASIC? That puts the total margin price at $10 per stick.

id probably say about $15 total to include manufacturing and all the background stuff maybe testing to but yeh Avalon are really screwing people over for these but does that really surprise anyone the company with the least amount of resorses managed to pull the rabbit out of the hat and are quite welcome to make as much profit as they can out of it

and there still the only really player in the market thanks to all these idiots that have let the projects die or tried to over design things like BFL

Avalons strategy of going with more chips for the price of power worked they required far less design and where much much easier to get made.... they also went with china to make the things which in my books on getting the things to market will beat anything made in the EU or USA by months

ill give it to the chine's when it comes to building and getting it done fast there the ones to go with

Bitcoinorama

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ASICs using existing tech are generally between $0.5-$2 per chip dependant on order volume.

They are making a tidy profit on anything above a $10.

Global BTC

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Activity: 529

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So maybe $4 for all components, excluding the bitcoin ASIC? That puts the total margin price at $10 per stick.

someone42

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Merit: 11

Chris Chua

Quote from: PeZ on June 25, 2013, 12:31:34 PM

Don't know if this helps...

Top Left:
A symbol that resembles Phillips
HC574
BE76439
UuG648G

Top Middle:
A030
T2313A
MUDB
OF2670

Top Right:
SILABS
CP2102
DCLOCW
1311+

Bottom Right:
Z1021A1
ZAOP11

Here's my identification of the parts. The layout seems to match this identification. I've also included a per-unit price estimation, based on 10,000 unit quantities at digikey.

Top left: NXP Semiconductor 74HC574 (octal D-type flip-flop), about 0.12 USD
Top middle: Atmel ATTiny2313 (8 bit microcontroller), about 0.72 USD
Top right: Silicon Laboratories CP2102 (USB to UART interface), about 2.30 USD
Bottom right: Alpha & Omega Semiconductor AOZ1021 (3A synchronous buck regulator), about 0.50 USD

PeZ

sr. member

Activity: 297

Merit: 250

Don't know if this helps...

Top Left:
A symbol that resembles Phillips
HC574
BE76439
UuG648G

Top Middle:
A030
T2313A
MUDB
OF2670

Top Right:
SILABS
CP2102
DCLOCW
1311+

Bottom Right:
Z1021A1
ZAOP11

cp1

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Stop using branwallets

I bet one of the ICs on the board is the most expensive -- you could look up their prices pretty quickly.

ct1aic

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Are ฿itcoins Radioactive?

You must be very near to the truth... and I paid 2.47 BTC for each of mine... Cry

Global BTC

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Activity: 529

Merit: 500

Here's a nice picture of the components on the stick (rev 3):

Here's another (rev 2):

Global BTC

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Merit: 500

I've been trying to estimate the margin cost for ASICMINER to produce the USB Block Erupter.

Given that the processing unit that is placed on the stick has similar characteristics to Avalons chips, I'm assuming the cost per chip is also similar. Avalon are selling their chips for BTC0,078 per chip, but I don't know what ~~profit margin~~ markup they are using at that. Let's assume 100%. That means the margin price per chip is BTC0,039, ~4 US$.

The chip is not the only thing on the stick, but the other components are very cheap. Say $1 for the rest of the components, $1 for the PCB and $1 for the manufacturing process. That's a total of $7 per stick.

Thoughts? If you have any other way of estimating the margin cost, please post it in this thread.

Topic: Margin price estimation of USB Block Erupter (Read 3395 times)