Topic: marlboroza using ""plagiarism"" as weapon to silence critics (Read 1014 times)

If you want to cure the "real" source of a lot of the problems on this board... simply remove the entire Altcoin section.

IMO, most of the spamming and merit begging (and other "net negative") activity is a direct result of all the "bounty hunting" (I really hate that term)... and the various ICO pump and dump scams that went along with the absolutely insane amount of copy/paste coins and tokens that appeared when BTC spiked in value and every man and his brother tried to cash in.

What then followed was a flood of users from "poorer" countries who discovered they could supplement their income by spamming all over these boards, twitter, telegram, facebook etc.

Coupled with "devs" who didn't care because half of the projects were scams... and campaign managers who didn't care because they got paid regardless... it was a recipe for disaster.


I wonder what would have happened if theymos had charged BTC to list an altcoin like the big exchanges do?

There are somethings I agree with here (not all) and actually I am attempting to raise those points and find some clear ways to improve the entire issue of locating, recognising, reviewing/analysing and rewarding posts on some clear contributions made to finding the optimal solution or answers.  However nobody except actmyname has wanted to contribute to such an important thread because I feel it will reveal that merit and indeed trust systems are quite dangerous.

There should be thorough investigation and analysis of every opinion before merit can be given. I see no point of opinions that are groundless and found to be provably incorrect having merit whilst opinions and statements to the contrary that are provably correct get less merit.


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-most-important-thread-you-can-contribute-to-this-yearno-kidding-5088852

However the dangers go beyond misleading those that do not or can not form the correct opinion from the evidence or cases provided and then just look at the merit scores of each post. Subjectivity opens the systems to corruption and control over other posters.

If you were able to keep only the net positive and clear out the net negatives (to junior boards to train there first)  or even diluting net neutrals the board would thrive.

The problem is determining what is "net positive" and what is "net negative" . Arbitrary or systematic censorship is not good. Merit provides some incentive to post quality material and while I am fortunate that people usually like my posts - it does have the effect of potentially creating an echo chamber where different opinions are rejected and agreeable opinions are rewarded. Theymos has so far done a good job of selecting merit sources with different skills and opinions.

Another issue is that if you allow rules to be arbitrary then they often end up being unfair and unevenly applied.


I agree and I think a lot of people agree with that. You'll notice that I have never worn a paid signature. (My endorsement or opinion is not for sale)

There has been a lot of discussion around how to remove the incentives around posting.

But removing some of the things that people like about this site will affect both those that use the site as well as those that abuse it.

Reducing or eliminating the financial incentives to post is like you said - the key to solving the issue.

Post count no longer provides the single way to gain rank which was a good first step.

I have no issue with people receiving a reward for quality posts. The problem is poverty (and greed) . Poverty attracts people to financial rewards.

But banning poor people is not the answer either. Crypto is meant to be a revolution that improves freedom and accessibility. Some of the "poor people" have embraced this technology and are now very knowledgeable and positive contributors. Without financial incentives they may be forced to go elsewhere.

Not all incentivised posting is due to signature or bounty campaigns. Some of it is due to achieving high google search engine ranking.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/alternatives-to-permabans-for-plagarism-5087992 hilariousetc is discussing alternatives to permabans for plagiarism when there is reduced culpability.


Memes also would in a lot of cases not be considered for bounty / signature rewards unless it had some text to go with it. The text on the meme wouldn't count.

e.g.:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ended-chipmixer-signature-campaign-sr-member-1935179

This is no different to copy and paste with regard to giving credit to original source. Non original work with no way to find the original source, bots can be made. Copy and paste in pic form is no different.

.
As I have said before and will say once again this new focus on copy and paste is to rid the board or net negative persons who are incapable of producing original work and are only here to earn spam bucks from their sigs. Whether their bots grab the text and slap in in a pic or whether they do not is not any different. They can achieve their same goal to earn bucks, they do so on the basis of others original work.


I would go further to say that a spammer posting copy and paste off topic junk in a serious thread is less net negative that those that put up a semi convincing counter argument that is does not rebut the correct and true statements of someone else but leads people (who are unable to understand the truth or evaluate correctly the presented evidence) to believe the correct statements/claims have been successfully rebutted .... then those people are even more net negative and with too many of those examples should be again put on junior boards to work on their critical thinking and reasoning before ruining the main boards.

These bots and parrots are just a general dilution and annoyance rather than some that actually mislead people into incorrect assumptions and far away from reaching consensus in an optimal way.

Let's be clear on what is trying to be achieved by any actions taken.

I say only net positive actions that have a strong case should taken or you are actually damaging the board and being net negative.

Taking lots of action that leads to no provable net gain is pointless.

Cure the source of the issue. Make big changes else you will just keep tweaking and reporting forever.

Until you remove all financial incentive to post you will never get away from people trying to just post anything (mostly dilution and junk) to earn bucks they probably really need sadly.

Even if they could - why would they go through the trouble of memefying something if it's far easier to just quote/link it? The problem with plagiarizing dipshits is that they're too lazy to put effort in their posts so they spam the forum with copy-pasta.

let's not split hairs i meant new persons not essentially newbie rank.... my point stands

Newbies cannot post images.

I am not after your for copyright, I dont care what you do so long as you are not spamming the forum constantly to earn money.

However tracing back that image of the spinning ball (even if i know to pull image source some may not) gives me no greater chance of attributing it to the original source creator than if it was just posted here  on bitcointalk servers

So it is no better than copy and pasting the spinning ball text straight here in terms of reference to the original source and not claiming as your own

A newbie who wanted to spam with this method could find spinning ball texts or whatever slap them in a pic and embed then via 3rd party host into threads here where they are mildly relevant .... a bot could do this and there would be according to you no way to act against them

To me it is actually away to get away with using non original text or material without attributing or referencing the actual source ... it is get out of jail free benefit from others work. I can tell you know I bet someone doing that a lot for financial gain would be in trouble. I would not be surprised if this is the next noob way of spamming of non original work and will be hard for spiders to jump on too.

If you look at the links in the code you will see that the content is not hosted on bitcointalk. The legalities of that I already explained in a previous post. Linking to an external site is not considered a breach of copyright.

The subtle difference is that I did not post a copy of the image on this site. I posted a link to the image which is available on another site. Which is akin to posting a url directing to another site.

Any copyright issues (if they exist) are with the site that hosts the images and the person who posted it there.


The majority of plagiarism that is detected on bitcointalk is bots and people copy pasting without any input to the content.

Linking urls and image source links with commentary that contributes to the conversation is in line with the purpose of a forum.

Copy and pasting to increase post count does not contribute in most instances.


If you copy and paste text a simple acknowledgement of source eliminates plagiarism accusations. It is a good habit to reference sources.

The bottom line is that plagiarism as defined as "copy and pasting text without acknowledgement" is not allowed under the bitcointalk rules.

create some content of your own.....

LOL so now you just start creating different situations to yours to defend... because you do not have the intelligence to realise that is not applicable to your case at all.

Let's just take this

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47044986

Where you do acknowledge the original source ? are you claiming you created that text and then made it into a pic? about the spinning balls? are you saying embedding original content from merely a 3rd part hosting site they may have placed their own original content is okay? I mean how would one even validate from some hosting site where it was from or whom created it?

Where do most memes acknowledge the original source of that content? some link to a 3rd party webhosting is a reference to original source?

That spinning ball  text if copied and pasted from a website here it would be plagiarism... .not that I would give 1 fuck so long as it was not done all of the time and that person was being helpful and was not just doing to to earn money.  So now a newbie bot should not rip content via copy and paste of text they can just rip the text and place it into a pic on 3rd party host and that will be okay? I mean even if you are saying people need to know to click image source then go to that url .... how to know if this is put there by the original source or someone else just ripped off his stuff and put it there? even if he put it there himself and there is no way to track back to him for credit then again that makes it impossible to for any plagiarist to get caught. That kinds of makes it impossible to complain about any pics placed here and linked to 3rd party sites. The entire thing is almost a way to rip non original content spam the board with it and then make it impossible to complain about because you claim that embedded link to the 3rd party source is a good enough.
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What is to stop bots grabbing text splatting it into jpegs or any other pics and splattering the board with it on any related terms?? nothing that's right and that is what we want to prevent.

Stop trying to have the last incorrect word or create some kind of situation to defend that is not applicable to the situation you are in.

I am not interested in you filling your post count up (collating without direct reference to original source) with pics of others original work so stop worrying yourself about it i can smell your fear from here. Just shut up and buzz off and find some more original work of others to post from 3rd party hosting sites

I will continue to bring new ideas to the board and help provide a fairer system until the entire arena is decentralised and trustless

You probably don't have the intellect to discuss things rationally and have to resort to insults. But just in case:

There is no rule or law that doesn't allow you to reference or refer other peoples content. As long as you acknowledge it with a source.
Compiling information is creating unique original content. It is distinctly different from copy and pasting.

You can continue acting like a jerk or you could attempt to try to understand the difference.

Using snippets of facts in your delusional pubescent ramblings doesn't make you a critic. It is also not "winning" and argument.  It is just that people put you on ignore and refuse to argue with an idiot that will try to drag them down to their level and beat them with experience. From the way that you have been carrying on you have probably bought the account. Your earlier posts are far better constructed.

shut up fool you are a hypocritical dip shit

loads of your posts pages and pages are just content that you did not create I mean most pages of you history are filled with content that is not original.... you are probably net negative here so don't start talking to those on another level in terms of contribution to this forum.

why don't we just tell noobs to copy and paste text to an image and post it here linked from somewhere else how will that be any different ... filling up tons of spam all over the place that bots can do in seconds.... this kind of implanting of other peoples content is equally as bad if not worse and yes could actually have legal implications now or in the future.

Not if the link is to an origional post. It is like posting a URL.

The presence of the image is only virtual.  The image file is not on the bitcointalk server - only a link to the image.

Removal of the image from the linked site will result in the url displaying

Such site can also block external access to the image.

In the country where I live it is not considered infringement. It is also not disallowed by the bitcointalk rules.

...and that is not even getting into the "fair use" argument or the fact that most, if not all of the images that were linked to are in public domain with no distinguishable ownership.

A lot of the memes are generated on meme makers using royalty free stock photos.

Crazy countries can make crazy laws. But since I don't live in them or plan to visit they have no jurisdiction over me.  If those countries attempt to enforce those crazy laws outside of their own country it may well be breaching the constitutional laws of the country that I live in.

In the majority of civilized countries - linking and framing is not considered copyright infringement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_aspects_of_hyperlinking_and_framing

As long as Bitcointalk follows the DCMA guidelines they have nothing to worry about.

He is actually right, it doesn't matter if it's hosted on an external site or not, if you are the owner of the forum you can be sued for copyright infringement if someone posts a copyrighted picture. Of course it matters a lot where the server is located.

LOL - the images are hosted on an external site. The image IS the external source.

You can view this by right clicking and selecting "open image in new tab"



Now who is looking like a real legendary dumb shit. ?!  

Define retarded. Then prove that I have lost one debate ever.

Then get to my page long post on meta that nobody has been able to rebut as yet and start to try and read it. Then if you believe you understand it and do not agree with it then feel free to present your case.

Only try posting if you have an opinion or statement to voice that you can substantiate or back with some evidence.

I am bored of reputation so reply to me in meta

@BitcoinSupremo

thanks for support and demonstrating you are one of the few people that actually starts to see just how these control systems merit and trust are slipping in beneath admin level to suppress free speech here. It's an observable fact how open these very systems are to abuse.

Few things:

Did CH just merit himself?

Also, is it possible that CH's account might have changed hands, I don't ever recall him being this nardy and retarded.

CH, chill down, and try to explain in a few words instead of writing pages.

At least someone is raising their voice over DT abuse, and I will give a merit to it because this forum is more centralized than a central bank is, and the funny thing, bitcoin was supposed to give decentralization 

Please mr nobody

Stfu

Look at hypocrite ... worried about others peoples prior art..

this is just in a couple of pages of his history  ...pleb


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47044986

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.48852497

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.48461189

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47221161

where is your credit to these peopleS prio art?  where is your source?

Memes are now actually breaking the law in the EU ....are those hosted in the EU

Even so why would you think you can fill you entire post history crammed with crap you did not originally produce and the try to comment on a real legend you dumb shit.

Do you have any provable achievements here to make me believe you are even net positive here? to counter this ?

copy and paste or failure to add references now and then when helping people and gaining nothing financially is not permaban if you are netpositive....  I mean even 1. 1000 would be acceptable with no financial motive your history is littered with taking other peoples work and giving no credit.

Now sit down and shut up

Plagiarism is plagiarism and results in a permaban. There is no valid excuse.

It is super easy to use quotes and/or list a source.