Martingale Betting Strategy on BlackJack, how effective it is? - page 4.

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Quote from: lionheart78 on July 17, 2022, 05:10:02 AM

How about you what is your thought on Martingale betting strategy used on blackjack? Is it effective for this type of game?

It's effective if you play it right since after all, the game is not just a luck-based game. Just do your best on every round especially if your losing streak is now growing continuously to the point that it will reach already x5 and your bet at stake is now higher.

If you lose here for about over 5x streak, and it is always what happened, then don't play Blackjack anymore lol.

Choose other games instead as you don't have any skills in that game. Imagine losing over 5x several times in a row in strategy-based games. That's worst.

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Quote from: lionheart78 on July 17, 2022, 05:10:02 AM

I am still hesitant about this betting strategy but my rationality thinks it is possible, at least martingale on blackjack is way better than martingale on any luck/chance-based games. How about you what is your thought on Martingale betting strategy used on blackjack? Is it effective for this type of game?

Blackjack is one of my most favourite card games after poker, I have been playing it for years and tried out a lot different strategies. Most strategies in blackjack fail to increase our chances of winning. The only real strategy that is consistent in bringing our chance of winning above 50% is card counting. Card counting is very hard to master without getting noticed by casinos, and if you don't want to get banned by a casino better don't do it regularly. As for martingale betting it's very popular in roulette and dice game. I like the strategy and think it's working most of the time. There are two issues with martingale betting strategies, first out bankroll is not infinite and secondly the casinos limit the maximum amount we can bet on at a table. Because of that we can't make too many bets in a row, it's best to start small so we have the most chances of making a profit.

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Quote from: lionheart78 on July 17, 2022, 05:10:02 AM

Before anything else, I would like to define Blackjack as a game of skill or skill-based gambling game. Means we have more grasp on winnings the more skilled we are in this game. With this I happen to read an article Titled: The Three Best Blackjack Betting Strategies. I was somehow surprised when I see that Martingale betting strategy is one of the best betting strategies for Blackjack, I was kinda hesitant to believe it until I realized that BlackJack isn't a game of chance so it is sensible that Martingale Betting will give a better percentage in winning a gambling session. Here is what the article explains about this strategy.

Quote

Martingale Betting Strategy

The Martingale System is a negative-progression blackjack strategy rooted in the idea that you, in theory, will always win eventually. In this strategy, each time you lose, you double your bet. And before you leave us here, hang on. Successful play of this riskier strategy could pay off big.

Here’s how it works. Say you started with a $5 bet and lost. You would then bet $10 on your next hand — and $20 on the next if you lost again. Eventually, after progressively making higher wagers, you are more likely to win, leaving you with a much higher payout than if you had bet a consistent amount.

Caution: this approach is best reserved for high rollers though. In blackjack, it’s not uncommon to have a losing streak of ten or more hands in a row. Without a large bankroll, continually doubling your bet to that degree could leave you with a wounded wallet.

I am still hesitant about this betting strategy but my rationality thinks it is possible, at least martingale on blackjack is way better than martingale on any luck/chance-based games. How about you what is your thought on Martingale betting strategy used on blackjack? Is it effective for this type of game?

Martingale is rooted in bullshit, it is false and only idiots regurgitating it thinking they've come up with some miracle strategy to dig themselves out of a deep hole would believe it. It ignores a fundamental fact that the house will always have an advantage in every game - or what would be the point in them offering it, they've got bills to cover. It also ignores the fact that you will run out of money long before the casino, so they can afford to keep matching your doubled bet until you run out of money. People projecting this garbage as having some shred of truth are the real hindrance to it being condemned to the garbage heap and utterly forgotten, as it should be.

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It can also be very effective. You can also have a really long good streak and make significant gains. But there comes a time when you also have a long loss steak. The problem is that after losing 8x you have to bet the 9th time that you will actually win only minimally because the concept is based on winning your bet from bet number 1. have to bet a huge amount to win only 5 eur, for example. You would be better off applying Martingale to football matches than in a casino.

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Quote from: lionheart78 on July 17, 2022, 05:10:02 AM

I would like to define Blackjack as a game of skill or skill-based gambling game. Means we have more grasp on winnings the more skilled we are in this game.

I think this statement is slightly wrong. From all other skill based gambling games (like poker), Blackjack is the game with the biggest amount of "luck". You can play on pure skill only in case when you a good mathematician and count cards and probabilities right on the game. Like Edward O. Thorp, you can see here his video - Edward O. Thorp — Beating Blackjack and Roulette

In all other cases is luck-based game the same as some roulette.

Quote from: lionheart78 on July 17, 2022, 05:10:02 AM

Martingale Betting Strategy

Doesn't work, since you can't obtain all money in the world.
Do not thanks, it's easy.

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Quote from: milewilda on July 19, 2022, 04:17:21 PM

When i was a noob back then on which i do really have those kind of common thoughts on using martingale.Yes, you might not really be able to be busted up on early phase but once you do find yourself
too confident on using and ending up on leaving your pc open for some hours and believing that you are profiting then its good if you havent busted up yet but in most cases we know that
losing streaks could really make your capital vanish out into thin air and ending up on getting frustrated and would tend to make out more deposits just because you would be chasing up
with your losses and this is what casinos do really like. Cheesy

I used to remember those old days where Yolo is the last resort when losing streak hits me up, just a quick smile and a scratch on my head when the outcome turns against me, either adding or topping up additional balance to continue or to stop and wondering how come I lost everything, regretting that it should be better to quit when the system still favoring you.

But it's too late to realize as everything was busted and the only thing left is the regret that will haunt you for some time. Roll Eyes

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Quote from: lionheart78 on July 22, 2022, 06:59:33 AM

Mathematically it is true if we got a long red streak. But if we got green in every 3 - 4 red streak and we are using a martingale variation of increasing bet 3x each loss then I think we are all good with a bigger profit.

Even ignoring the house edge and assuming a completely fair 50%/50% chance to win/lose each game, then you will go bust very quickly. As anyone who has ever gambled will tell you, runs of 3-4 reds are exceedingly common. With a 50/50 game, you have a 1 in 8 chance of any 3 rolls being all red and a 1 in 16 chance of any 4 rolls being all red. Those are not good odds. If you change the multiplier from 2x to 3x, all you are doing is reducing the number of reds in a row you can hit and speeding up the rate at which you will run out of money.

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Quote from: fiulpro on July 21, 2022, 10:40:04 AM

Martingale in Black Jack : doubling every time you loose? What about the cards you have ? How will you consider the luck factor? It's skills as well therefore if your skills are god awful and you are doubling every time you are loosing then you will loose a lot honestly.

Just like what famososMuertos stated, it is a strategy, depending on the person's skill/luck, he may opt to use it or not. If the gambler is skill is too awful then using martingale would be a disaster to his bankroll but if he is so damn good with luck, then it won't be wrong to use the martingale betting method. In short, the use of the martingale betting strategy is conditional.

Quote from: fiulpro on July 21, 2022, 10:40:04 AM

The amount of money that you would use would be a lot as well and it's about who can afford that much, therefore at the end of the day not only you might end up loosing so much money because you might not have money to complete the whole martingale system but at the same time you cannot really take into account the luck factor.

Mathematically it is true if we got a long red streak. But if we got green in every 3 - 4 red streak and we are using a martingale variation of increasing bet 3x each loss then I think we are all good with a bigger profit.

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Martingale in Black Jack : doubling every time you loose? What about the cards you have ? How will you consider the luck factor? It's skills as well therefore if your skills are god awful and you are doubling every time you are loosing then you will loose a lot honestly.
The amount of money that you would use would be a lot as well and it's about who can afford that much, therefore at the end of the day not only you might end up loosing so much money because you might not have money to complete the whole martingale system but at the same time you cannot really take into account the luck factor.

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Quote from: famososMuertos on July 20, 2022, 02:55:10 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on July 19, 2022, 04:35:02 AM

Quote from: famososMuertos on July 18, 2022, 05:03:00 PM

It doesn't matter how big your final bet is with Martingale, you get your initial bet back, that's it.

That is the summary of what I said in my previous post, but what surprises me is that, despite the fact that what we are talking about has been known for 3 centuries, there are still many people who believe that it is a good strategy. If I were a casino owner or had invested in casino bankrolls as I did some time ago, I would be very happy to see how people are self-deluded to explain to themselves that martingale and its variants are good strategies.
...//...:::

Hi,

It's a strategy! and mathematically it works, there is no doubt about that, is it?

Note that I started my thread with the phrase you quote, it is simple and concise, that is, I do not support its use, nor do I say no.

This strategy can be efficient, effective, good or bad, it depends on each person, it is what I try to explain in the rest of my idea.
-skip-

It all depends on what you mean by the word "works". If you mean that, on average, players who use this strategy lose money, then yes, it works (for the benefit of casino owners). Why do you say that the effectiveness of the strategy depends on the person? If this is a real strategy and not a set of misconceptions, then it should work the same for everyone. In addition, it can be formalized and used without a person at all, but with the help of some kind of automation. And by the way, Martingale has already been tested both by individuals and with the help of automation - it does not work.

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on July 19, 2022, 04:35:02 AM

Quote from: famososMuertos on July 18, 2022, 05:03:00 PM

It doesn't matter how big your final bet is with Martingale, you get your initial bet back, that's it.

That is the summary of what I said in my previous post, but what surprises me is that, despite the fact that what we are talking about has been known for 3 centuries, there are still many people who believe that it is a good strategy. If I were a casino owner or had invested in casino bankrolls as I did some time ago, I would be very happy to see how people are self-deluded to explain to themselves that martingale and its variants are good strategies.
...//...:::

Hi,

It's a strategy! and mathematically it works, there is no doubt about that, is it?

Note that I started my thread with the phrase you quote, it is simple and concise, that is, I do not support its use, nor do I say no.

This strategy can be efficient, effective, good or bad, it depends on each person, it is what I try to explain in the rest of my idea.

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on July 19, 2022, 04:35:02 AM

Quote from: famososMuertos on July 18, 2022, 05:03:00 PM

It doesn't matter how big your final bet is with Martingale, you get your initial bet back, that's it. There are some variants but it is not the OP case.

Sometimes it's not just about applying a strategy, people complain a lot about martingale, but they have no idea of additional information needed, they just understand that it's just doubling the bet and you winner.

In the case of blackjack, like roulette, they are successful but because you have a bankroll and an adequate bet, also do not forget to manage the odds, it is important to be more successful and avoid unnecessary long losing streaks that have a psychological effect on negative, depending on how experienced you are or how adequate your banking is.

I do not use martingale because of the size of my bet (Blackjack), it would break my bankroll, sometimes I have lost up to 6 times in a row and the calculations do not give me to apply it, it is easier for me to lose 7 times and then recover at long time.

It is a classic mistake of those who apply Martingale to think I have lost "x" times this one that comes if I win and that is when the variance does its thing.
In the case of roulette, it does not accept "skills", but in Blackjack you can "change" those odds of losing.

Then, retreat, stand, etc. they make the difference of not taking a loss +, that they will make the next bet put you in limits that you do not manage and then they make you play badly, betting $500, $1000 in a BJ hand when you are not used to that size of bet, so it distracts you.

In any case, I think that everything always depends on the scenarios and what you want, so wagers, a winning streak, etc.
In any case, always do the game calculations and be aware that if the variance decides that day to change things, if your limit is $1,000, a variation of one more loss means that you should have $2,000, by the way, if you have the capacity for large bets, find out what limits maximums the table has, "you can't double the bet", it is "fatality^{Mortal Kombat : )} for the strategy.

Considerations:

Martingale is a game strategy, it is not a 100% winning ticket as they want you to understand, the strategy works for any scenario, not for any individual.
Learn to play BJ.
Use play money with that strategy before using your real money.
Know and study the odds of the BJ.

...//...::::
Betting 63 euros to win 1 is objectively a bad strategy.

It's definitely not for you, but it worked. You get the point. beware! I repeat I only analyze the situation or the scenarios, remember this that I already wrote:

"This strategy can be efficient, effective, good or bad, it depends on each person."

Conclusion for you, bad, maybe not effective but efficient.

Then another player sees things like "wager", increasing the bet and getting more profit.
Another player reduces the bet 10 times, adapts the Ev- and intends to do it several times until obtaining certain profits.
Another player comes up with something else with that strategy and it works for him, another player misapplies it to things like sports betting and doesn't even take 50/50 into account, etc.

E.G. is like the coin toss, you toss the coin 100 times and it only lands tails once and right on the 99th toss, oh! shit failed martingale?.
Really!, fail your strategy by not having enough bankroll to weigh those kinds of odds.

In conclusion, we must proclaim "study Martingale and learn to use it or not."

^{Martingale (probability theory)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(probability_theory)}

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Quote from: lionheart78 on July 17, 2022, 05:10:02 AM

Before anything else, I would like to define Blackjack as a game of skill or skill-based gambling game. Means we have more grasp on winnings the more skilled we are in this game.

Although blackjack is a card game, I think I still can't agree with that. I really don't know why but for me, the only card game that is based on skill is poker but that must be a traditional poker or the ones that is only being played offline.

Maybe I can agree with you that blackjack can be a skill based game if that was being played offline because I always think that all online casino games are rigged but in terms of strategy, yes that was true that a martingale can also be used in blackjack, not only in blackjack actually but to almost any other gambling games as well. If I remember the games where I use martingale are keno, limbo and plinko.

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Every time I hear someone suggesting the Martingale strategy, it implies that the person must have a huge capital at his disposal. The good thing about it implementing and integrating it into BlackJack is that, by odds, the Martingale strategy can pay itself in the process. As you bet more in BlackJack, the chances of a person winning and getting a favorable hand increases during the process which makes this strategy fairly effective.

The only problem that I see in this strategy is that, the odds may also be against your favor which may result into using large and large amounts of capital. The more you lose, the bigger the capital that you use in this strategy which makes this not beginner and newbie friendly to all.

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Quote from: Fredomago on July 19, 2022, 03:27:12 AM

Quote from: milewilda on July 18, 2022, 05:33:58 PM

Quote from: famososMuertos on July 18, 2022, 05:03:00 PM

Martingale is a game strategy, it is not a 100% winning ticket as they want you to understand, the strategy works for any scenario, not for any individual.

People should put up into their minds on whats martingale and how it should be treated.This isnt some sort of that holy grail where some people do believe on.They would really be finding
and realize those things once they have been fucked up with martingale strategy even on a BJ game it wont really be giving out guarantees that you cant really be having a long losing streak.
So better make use of this strategy on your own risk and dont push up yourself too much because you are indeed just trying these strategy whether you do end up on profitable
or getting wrecked.So the best thing to be done is knowing on when to quit when you are in greens.

If you don't know how to treat losing streak, this strategy will give you same outcome, it will wrecked your balance and burned everything inside your bankroll, it's more on your emotions that will dominate your game, once you experienced long losing streak your adrenaline to recover in the quicker manner will blind you up.

It's a strategy, but not all can utilize this system, either you tweak it and find some changes to favor you.

The best thing is to make sure that you understand the risk and you know when to quit to avoid losing all your money.

When i was a noob back then on which i do really have those kind of common thoughts on using martingale.Yes, you might not really be able to be busted up on early phase but once you do find yourself
too confident on using and ending up on leaving your pc open for some hours and believing that you are profiting then its good if you havent busted up yet but in most cases we know that
losing streaks could really make your capital vanish out into thin air and ending up on getting frustrated and would tend to make out more deposits just because you would be chasing up
with your losses and this is what casinos do really like. Cheesy

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Quote from: serjent05 on July 17, 2022, 04:54:03 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 17, 2022, 03:49:20 PM

An excellent demonstration of the absurdity of the Martingale system! I think one more corollary should be mentioned: when using Martingale (even if you have infinite money) your winnings as a percentage of your deposit will be zero (infinitely small). Is it worth starting in this case?
Probably the sponsor of that article is a casino that lures new simpleton players Grin

Well maybe, but looking at the article they are not encouraging player to use the Martingale betting system if a player has a low bankroll.

In general, it was a joke, but it follows from the logic of the article that this strategy is beneficial. Therefore, a naive player can believe this and try to play this way either by lowering the initial bet (thus he will be able to increase the bet by martingale for a while) or by borrowing money to play with a large bankroll. Both options will bring disappointment, but the second is extremely dangerous.

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Quote from: famososMuertos on July 18, 2022, 05:03:00 PM

It doesn't matter how big your final bet is with Martingale, you get your initial bet back, that's it.

That is the summary of what I said in my previous post, but what surprises me is that, despite the fact that what we are talking about has been known for 3 centuries, there are still many people who believe that it is a good strategy. If I were a casino owner or had invested in casino bankrolls as I did some time ago, I would be very happy to see how people are self-deluded to explain to themselves that martingale and its variants are good strategies.

I will post a source in Spanish but I will put the text translated into English:

Martingale

'The history of the martingale dates back to the 18th century. At that time, the martingale was regarded by the players themselves as a naive strategy and a strategy of rude minds. Its name originates from the French village of Martigues (martingales in French), which is located near Marseille.'

<...>

'An example that illustrates this strategy well is the heads or tails bet with a coin. Let's bet 1 euro on heads, and if it comes out wrong we double it.

An example that illustrates this strategy well is the heads or tails bet with a coin. Let's bet 1 euro on heads, and if it comes out wrong we double it.

We bet on heads. We lose Bet: 1 euro
We bet on heads. We lose Bet: 2 euros
We bet on heads. We lose Bet: 4 euros
We bet on heads. We lose Bet: 8 euros
We bet on heads. We lose Bet: 16 euros
We bet on heads. We win Bet: 32 euros

On the sixth throw we finally win, we recover the 32 euros invested and we also win 32 euros. The real profit is the result of subtracting from the 32 euros of profit all that was lost previously.

Winning = 32 - 16 - 8 - 4 -2 -1 = 1 euro'

Betting 63 euros to win 1 is objectively a bad strategy.

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Quote from: milewilda on July 18, 2022, 05:33:58 PM

Quote from: famososMuertos on July 18, 2022, 05:03:00 PM

Martingale is a game strategy, it is not a 100% winning ticket as they want you to understand, the strategy works for any scenario, not for any individual.

People should put up into their minds on whats martingale and how it should be treated.This isnt some sort of that holy grail where some people do believe on.They would really be finding
and realize those things once they have been fucked up with martingale strategy even on a BJ game it wont really be giving out guarantees that you cant really be having a long losing streak.
So better make use of this strategy on your own risk and dont push up yourself too much because you are indeed just trying these strategy whether you do end up on profitable
or getting wrecked.So the best thing to be done is knowing on when to quit when you are in greens.

If you don't know how to treat losing streak, this strategy will give you same outcome, it will wrecked your balance and burned everything inside your bankroll, it's more on your emotions that will dominate your game, once you experienced long losing streak your adrenaline to recover in the quicker manner will blind you up.

It's a strategy, but not all can utilize this system, either you tweak it and find some changes to favor you.

The best thing is to make sure that you understand the risk and you know when to quit to avoid losing all your money.

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Blackjack, dice, or any other games with speed in each round will have the same finale.
It will all depend on how deep the well of money you have as it is a martingale strategy.
A lot of trouble comes when a bad streak of losses happens. It might work though if you are using a currency with lesser value, that way you could start with dust, and even if it ends up in a losing streak the online casino will have no way to limit you.
Never used this strategy as it's expensive. I might use this one made by @seoincorporation although it will be time-consuming.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chasing-a-x330000-update-i-hit-it-5406456

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Quote from: lionheart78 on July 17, 2022, 05:10:02 AM

Before anything else, I would like to define Blackjack as a game of skill or skill-based gambling game. Means we have more grasp on winnings the more skilled we are in this game. With this I happen to read an article Titled: The Three Best Blackjack Betting Strategies. I was somehow surprised when I see that Martingale betting strategy is one of the best betting strategies for Blackjack, I was kinda hesitant to believe it until I realized that BlackJack isn't a game of chance so it is sensible that Martingale Betting will give a better percentage in winning a gambling session. Here is what the article explains about this strategy.

The article clearly stated that

Quote

this approach is best reserved for high rollers

means for serious players who are willing to put up whatever amount it takes to chase their losses small or big amount, anything that chases your losses on an ongoing session or in the past sessions are considered risky, it's not logical to chase a $5 loss on your $1000 bankroll, it takes away the fun and sets you out in risky behavior to regain what is lost and take profit.

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Quote from: acroman08 on July 17, 2022, 10:10:49 PM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on July 17, 2022, 09:36:45 PM

But, make no mistake, it is wrong to classify blackjack as a skill-based game. It isn't a skill-based game. There are indeed skills used in the game, but your cards are given to you randomly. So there is still a big amount of luck needed for you to win consistently.

compare to the majority of casino games? yeah, I'd consider blackjack somewhat skill base game.

Somewhat, yes. Because as I've said there are indeed skills used in blackjack. But those skills are secondary to luck. Whatever your skills in blackjack are if you are given a bad hand compared to the dealer's hand, you would lose. So the primary factor is still luck. Your skill doesn't help you if the dealer's hand is an ace and a 10.

Of course if you compare blackjack with roulette for example, blackjack is less of a luck game. But it doesn't mean luck doesn't have a significant factor to the point of calling the game skill-based.

Topic: Martingale Betting Strategy on BlackJack, how effective it is? - page 4. (Read 1021 times)