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Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 127. (Read 448462 times)

hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Edit: There was a small bug right after posting this where it would set currency_id to 0 and 1 instead of 1 and 2. This has been fixed.

Was about to post that I get a slightly different result when using mastercoin-explorer, then saw your edit.

I made another test and the result is now the same that MastercoinAdvisor gives  – so this seems to be working.
Great tool, thanks for that!
sr. member
Activity: 284
Merit: 250
The first point to check is the amount of mastercoins bought before 1.9.2013.

My calculation is available on:
http://pastebin.com/HiPVUxzT
where you can see on each line:
  • the block on which the tx was confirmed
  • txid
  • amount of satoshis
  • amount of mastercoins (+ the calculated 10% bonus per week)
  • the amount of seconds the tx was sent before 1.9.2013


Summing up the amounts gives a total of roughly 528,301 Mastercoins (or 528301.88871472 to be exact).
superfluouso calculated a total of around 554,297, so we do have a discrepancy here.

Indeed my calculation sums up to 528301.88871472
I assume the reasons for the difference may be:
  • The 14 tx which are "mastercoin purchase" if one looks at blockchain.info "Received time", but they got confirmed only after the deadline, so the protocol does not consider them as purchases (see "Things to note" on https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3088012)
  • The timestamp for tx is taken as the timestamp of the first block in which this tx got included (again, see "Thing to note")
  • Including the early mastercoin sending tx (which are per definition also mastercoin purchases if they are sent before 1.9.2013)
  • Accuracy in calculation with rounding to full mastercoin smallest unit (100,000,000 dacoinminsters = 1 mastercoin?)

Since I gave all the calculation steps (including seconds till 1.9.2013 and bonus), it would be easy to check for a mistake.

Please update if you get the same amount for your address or not.
Anyone?
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
I've just updated http://mastercoin-explorer.com/.

I've fixed the issue with multiple inputs reported by dacoinminster earlier in this thread and put a web-version of the python advisor online. For now I would appreciate if somebody else would confirm the reference client gives the same output as the web-version.  

Before we start any coding, we should verify that we all understand the spec in the same way.
My calculation is available on:
http://pastebin.com/HiPVUxzT
where you can see on each line:
  • the block on which the tx was confirmed
  • txid
  • amount of satoshis
  • amount of mastercoins (+ the calculated 10% bonus per week)
  • the amount of seconds the tx was sent before 1.9.2013


Awesome; just what we need. I will see if I can grab the same results from my codebase so we can compare them so we have some test vectors to code against.

Edit: There was a small bug right after posting this where it would set currency_id to 0 and 1 instead of 1 and 2. This has been fixed.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
The first point to check is the amount of mastercoins bought before 1.9.2013.

My calculation is available on:
http://pastebin.com/HiPVUxzT
where you can see on each line:
  • the block on which the tx was confirmed
  • txid
  • amount of satoshis
  • amount of mastercoins (+ the calculated 10% bonus per week)
  • the amount of seconds the tx was sent before 1.9.2013


Summing up the amounts gives a total of roughly 528,301 Mastercoins (or 528301.88871472 to be exact).
superfluouso calculated a total of around 554,297, so we do have a discrepancy here.
sr. member
Activity: 284
Merit: 250
Before we start any coding, we should verify that we all understand the spec in the same way.

The first point to check is the amount of mastercoins bought before 1.9.2013.

My calculation is available on:
http://pastebin.com/HiPVUxzT
where you can see on each line:
  • the block on which the tx was confirmed
  • txid
  • amount of satoshis
  • amount of mastercoins (+ the calculated 10% bonus per week)
  • the amount of seconds the tx was sent before 1.9.2013

Things to note:


hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
I see, seems like there is no easy way yet to check the balance of an address.

I just sent a properly formatted Mastercoin transaction from an address that has no Mastercoin balance. Still, the site shows that Mastercoins were transferred:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/3d76acd8fc18d2f6e23af9a222da1c1e527cbf3faa1943c5f2571be7c3066e0b

I don't wanna criticize your site (it's great!), just wanted to let others know that something like this is no real proof of Mastercoin transfer.
I guess in these early stages we have to manually check the blockchain to make sure a Mastercoin transfer was successful.

Yeah all it does is decode the transaction itself; it does not validate in any way if the coins are actually on that address at the time of the transaction. I will add a specific disclaimer to the transaction result page to make sure people understand that.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Tachikoma, you think you can implement this?

It's on the todo-list. The main problem is that this is actually very hard to figure out because there are different cases to account for.

If you want to check the balance of your account and you did not buy from the Exodus address I first need to backtrace the transactions to your address. I need to make sure that address _did_ buy from the Exodus address and that at the time he did the transaction to your address he actually held enough Mastercoins for the transaction. This is not an easy feat when you consider the tons of data that are in the bitcoin blockchain and the fact that ever Mastercoin transaction is pretty much virtual and might not or might have happened based on how a client implements these cases.

I think the foundation needs to set up some test vectors to make sure every implementation of the protocol works exactly the same or else you might have 100 Mastercoins using one client and zero using an other. 

I see, seems like there is no easy way yet to check the balance of an address.

I just sent a properly formatted Mastercoin transaction from an address that has no Mastercoin balance. Still, the site shows that Mastercoins were transferred:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/3d76acd8fc18d2f6e23af9a222da1c1e527cbf3faa1943c5f2571be7c3066e0b

I don't wanna criticize your site (it's great!), just wanted to let others know that something like this is no real proof of Mastercoin transfer.
I guess in these early stages we have to manually check the blockchain to make sure a Mastercoin transfer was successful.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
Hey J.R.

What about using a service/tool like https://www.coinfunder.com/bounty for the coding contest?

btw, we should open a new forum thread for developers and leave this one for general Mastercoin discussion.
Manuel

That's a pretty slick site. I'm guessing we won't use it though since we would presumably need them to hold the money. (Not that I think they are untrustworthy, but accidents happen and people get hacked all the time)
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
True. It's like a MASSIVE premine. No altcoin would survive if 30% of ALL coins were premined.
Are you smoking drugs again?  J.R. paid for his shares same as you and I.  He threw $120,000 at the project and you call him a bum.  They ought to take you coins away from you and give them to the first person who hacks your computer and changes your desktop color to pink.  Numbnuts.

As far as I know the exodus address is controlled exclusively by J.R., so he sent $120,000 in BTC to an address he controls. Funds are supposed to be used for bounties and project development, but again the hard cold fact is that those funds are "in his pocket", at least at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, I repeat again that I invested in Mastercoin and I trust J.R., but someone needs to play devil's advocate.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
True. It's like a MASSIVE premine. No altcoin would survive if 30% of ALL coins were premined.
Are you smoking drugs again?  J.R. paid for his shares same as you and I.  He threw $120,000 at the project and you call him a bum.  They ought to take you coins away from you and give them to the first person who hacks your computer and changes your desktop color to pink.  Numbnuts.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
Tachikoma, you think you can implement this?

It's on the todo-list. The main problem is that this is actually very hard to figure out because there are different cases to account for.

If you want to check the balance of your account and you did not buy from the Exodus address I first need to backtrace the transactions to your address. I need to make sure that address _did_ buy from the Exodus address and that at the time he did the transaction to your address he actually held enough Mastercoins for the transaction. This is not an easy feat when you consider the tons of data that are in the bitcoin blockchain and the fact that ever Mastercoin transaction is pretty much virtual and might not or might have happened based on how a client implements these cases.

I think the foundation needs to set up some test vectors to make sure every implementation of the protocol works exactly the same or else you might have 100 Mastercoins using one client and zero using an other.  

Parsing the block chain for MasterCoin transactions and tracing their ownership though various protocol events is easily the hardest piece of work. Hopefully it helps that all MasterCoin addresses "mention" the exodus address with a tiny output - that should make them significantly easier to find Smiley

Also, I'm holding my MasterCoins as a long-term investment. I might have to diversify someday, but you need not worry about me dumping MasterCoins onto the market any time soon.  I've gotten several PMs asking me to sell them some of my personal stash (because people trust me to get the details of the send right), but I've been sending those folks to the buyer/seller thread.

If I take an action which impacts the market, it will probably be an upward impact. The MasterCoin Foundation needs some MasterCoins (to use for bounties when people would rather have MasterCoins than bitcoins), so we may use some project funds to purchase MasterCoins on the open market at some point Wink

I do not doubt of your good will and honesty, that's why I invested in your project. I understand what you say regarding an "upward impact" - the fact Satoshi is holding tight to each and every coin of his +1M stash is for sure one of the reasons Bitcoin has historically only gone up. In fact, I can tell you that discovering "the founder" didn't move a single coin from his stash, even during rallies and bubbles, was some of the things that fascinated me when I first learnt about Bitcoin.

On the contrary, I always believed that the day in which those "first mined" coins start to move, there will be a lot of panic and dumping going on, unless the transfers and movements are minimal. If large amounts of Satoshi's coins suddenly move, it will probably not be a good sign at all. I always thought that if he had sold his coins during the 2011 bubble, probably the "this is a ponzi" crowd (Nagle et all) would have had much more credit among the community and the world in general.

What I mean with the above is that by holding such an insane share of Mastercoins, you have a very big responsibility. I guess Satoshi understood that and decided to just hold. The project might be open source, other devs might make it huge, but still the fact remains that one single person (you) holds 30% of the total coins in circulation (which BTW in proportion is much more than Satoshi's holdings in relation to the total BTC supply). That's "total power" and "total control" for one single person, and an honest concern for every new investor.

I trust you, but to be honest when I've been asked about Mastercoins, among the few drawbacks I included "one single person holds 30% of them". I will keep saying that to whoever asks me an opinion about the project - not because I do not trust you, just because it is a hard cold fact.
newbie
Activity: 49
Merit: 0
Is there a mastercoin irc channel?
Curious about how this project will evolve btw.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1033
If you want to check the balance of your account and you did not buy from the Exodus address I first need to backtrace the transactions to your address. I need to make sure that address _did_ buy from the Exodus address and that at the time he did the transaction to your address he actually held enough Mastercoins for the transaction. This is not an easy feat when you consider the tons of data that are in the bitcoin blockchain and the fact that ever Mastercoin transaction is pretty much virtual and might not or might have happened based on how a client implements these cases.

I believe the only viable approach is to parse blokchain sequentially up from the first block which includes a mastercoin-relevant data, and to maintain state in a database of sorts, which notes how much each address holds now, etc.

Going from another end, i.e. backward scan, is pretty much impossible. While forward scan is almost trivial.

"Almost" because existing tools, like ABE and blockparse, are optimized for scanning whole blockchain rather than a part of it. But it's possible to deal with it by "throwing hardware at the problem". (Or another approach is to modify tools, or use ones which are better.)
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
When is the coding contest starts?
My domain masterblockchain.info is now ready, I need motivation to start coding.

Need to iron out the specifics. Hopefully within a few days.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1031
Rational Exuberance
Tachikoma, you think you can implement this?

It's on the todo-list. The main problem is that this is actually very hard to figure out because there are different cases to account for.

If you want to check the balance of your account and you did not buy from the Exodus address I first need to backtrace the transactions to your address. I need to make sure that address _did_ buy from the Exodus address and that at the time he did the transaction to your address he actually held enough Mastercoins for the transaction. This is not an easy feat when you consider the tons of data that are in the bitcoin blockchain and the fact that ever Mastercoin transaction is pretty much virtual and might not or might have happened based on how a client implements these cases.

I think the foundation needs to set up some test vectors to make sure every implementation of the protocol works exactly the same or else you might have 100 Mastercoins using one client and zero using an other. 

Parsing the block chain for MasterCoin transactions and tracing their ownership though various protocol events is easily the hardest piece of work. Hopefully it helps that all MasterCoin addresses "mention" the exodus address with a tiny output - that should make them significantly easier to find Smiley

Also, I'm holding my MasterCoins as a long-term investment. I might have to diversify someday, but you need not worry about me dumping MasterCoins onto the market any time soon.  I've gotten several PMs asking me to sell them some of my personal stash (because people trust me to get the details of the send right), but I've been sending those folks to the buyer/seller thread.

If I take an action which impacts the market, it will probably be an upward impact. The MasterCoin Foundation needs some MasterCoins (to use for bounties when people would rather have MasterCoins than bitcoins), so we may use some project funds to purchase MasterCoins on the open market at some point Wink
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
Tachikoma, you think you can implement this?

It's on the todo-list. The main problem is that this is actually very hard to figure out because there are different cases to account for.

If you want to check the balance of your account and you did not buy from the Exodus address I first need to backtrace the transactions to your address. I need to make sure that address _did_ buy from the Exodus address and that at the time he did the transaction to your address he actually held enough Mastercoins for the transaction. This is not an easy feat when you consider the tons of data that are in the bitcoin blockchain and the fact that ever Mastercoin transaction is pretty much virtual and might not or might have happened based on how a client implements these cases.

I think the foundation needs to set up some test vectors to make sure every implementation of the protocol works exactly the same or else you might have 100 Mastercoins using one client and zero using an other. 
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I just bought a decent amount of Mastercoins from someone and noticed that it's really hard to check how many MSC an address actually contains. I know about http://mastercoin-explorer.com/, but this will only work for addresses that got coins directly from the Exodus address. If someone sends Mastercoins to a new address, then it won't work.

We really need a simple way to check how many Mastercoins there are on a specific address or buying / selling won't really take off.

Tachikoma, you think you can implement this?
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
I think as soon as the foundation exists a multi-sig address will be created so nobody has the power to spend the coins without consent of the other members. 
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
He work on it for almost 2 years.
You don't hurt your baby
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
Yeah, I don't see this as premine either.  JR put in his investment very early in the month to maximize his take of bonus mastercoins.  However, this left the rest of the month for anyone to contribute and buy coins.  Technically, had enough purchased coins, his percentage could have also ended up as 1%.  Either way, nothing I've come across about JR and his viewpoints screams "nefarious". If this coin develops and performs as intended, not just mastercoin but also bitcoin stands to gain considerably.  Don't let this be a distraction from the other issues, like whether or not the escrows will function properly.

Nefarious or not, it remains a fact that JR holdings are so big that he "owns" the market. What he does with his 30% share of the market will deeply affect price.

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