Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 133. (Read 448462 times)
August 31, 2013, 04:01:26 PM
Over 1000 coins donated in the past 24 hours alone. Wow.
August 31, 2013, 03:47:57 PM
So I just sent 5 btc to Exodus.
Does this look right to you guys?
Anything else I need to do?
http://blockchain.info/tx/0c1d774d553b03343f38ca51624d9bb08068c6de074f6319947617631726b0e3
Does this look right to you guys?
Anything else I need to do?
http://blockchain.info/tx/0c1d774d553b03343f38ca51624d9bb08068c6de074f6319947617631726b0e3
+1
August 31, 2013, 03:42:45 PM
So I just sent 5 btc to Exodus.
Does this look right to you guys?
Anything else I need to do?
http://blockchain.info/tx/0c1d774d553b03343f38ca51624d9bb08068c6de074f6319947617631726b0e3
Does this look right to you guys?
Anything else I need to do?
http://blockchain.info/tx/0c1d774d553b03343f38ca51624d9bb08068c6de074f6319947617631726b0e3
August 31, 2013, 03:41:29 PM
Does the minor fee have to be 0.005? I added only 0.001 (which happened automatically).
My client, Bitcoin QT .8.3 required 0.0001 BTC after upgrade from .8.21, which wanted .0005.
August 31, 2013, 03:38:31 PM
In case you're using blockchain.info, here's a rough sketch of how it's done best:
- Receive money
- new address - call it "Mastercoin"
- Copy address
- Send money --> quick send - to this address - send X + 0.005
- Send money --> Custom
- From: Mastercoin
- To: 1EXoDusjGwvnjZUyKkxZ4UHEf77z6A5S4P
- BTC: X
- Miner fee: 0.005
- Review payment
- Check on 1exodus
- Receive money
- new address - call it "Mastercoin"
- Copy address
- Send money --> quick send - to this address - send X + 0.005
- Send money --> Custom
- From: Mastercoin
- To: 1EXoDusjGwvnjZUyKkxZ4UHEf77z6A5S4P
- BTC: X
- Miner fee: 0.005
- Review payment
- Check on 1exodus
Does the minor fee have to be 0.005? I added only 0.001 (which happened automatically). Transaction was confirmed at 1ExoDus... I'm not trying to be cheap just wondering why you selected 0.005. I used my "MasterCoin" address from a MultiBit wallet. Thanks.
August 31, 2013, 03:27:32 PM
http://blockchain.info/address/1GaNupdUBzfVF2B3JUAY1rZwHoXJgjyzXj
Currently at 37 x .01btc transactions to the exodus address, with public note "Get Mastercoin at http://www.getmastercoin.com"
Marketing account?
funny, scrolling down the list of transaction comments reminded me of a twitter feed, i wonder how longer before social messaging via the blockchain takes off
August 31, 2013, 03:01:07 PM
I also have newbie question. I just sent Bitcoin from Bitcoin-QT to address 1EXoDusjGwvnjZUyKkxZ4UHEf77z6A5S4P with message "mastercoin". Will I be issued any kind of receipt or have any kind of proof of ownership of the purchased Mastercoin?
August 31, 2013, 02:44:17 PM
In case you're using blockchain.info, here's a rough sketch of how it's done best:
- Receive money
- new address - call it "Mastercoin"
- Copy address
- Send money --> quick send - to this address - send X + 0.005
- Send money --> Custom
- From: Mastercoin
- To: 1EXoDusjGwvnjZUyKkxZ4UHEf77z6A5S4P
- BTC: X
- Miner fee: 0.005
- Review payment
- Check on 1exodus
- Receive money
- new address - call it "Mastercoin"
- Copy address
- Send money --> quick send - to this address - send X + 0.005
- Send money --> Custom
- From: Mastercoin
- To: 1EXoDusjGwvnjZUyKkxZ4UHEf77z6A5S4P
- BTC: X
- Miner fee: 0.005
- Review payment
- Check on 1exodus
August 31, 2013, 02:42:43 PM
I'm new in this thread, and just send several bitcoins to that adress.
I just want to know, where can I see how many mastercoins I have and how can I sell them?
I just want to know, where can I see how many mastercoins I have and how can I sell them?
August 31, 2013, 01:39:39 PM
Thought this might help those of you who were wondering just how much time you have left to invest!
Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-01+00:00:00UTC
Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-01+00:00:00UTC
Just bumping the clock to this page.
August 31, 2013, 12:36:33 PM
another concern or situation to be clarified:
I assume, we are all sane people. We invest in XZXcoins (e.g. GoldCoins) in the hope the price of gold rises and then withdraw more money at a later time. In some cases, the value will fall, in others it will rise indeed. Let us consider a case, in which the value rose to an all-time high and further assume that the value of a MasterCoin remained constant during this time or even lost value (this will happen sometimes, even assumed that the Mastercoins rise in the long term).
The following will happen: Some people will sell their GoldCoins. Others see that the remaining balance in the escrow fund falls below the sum of the value of all existing GoldCoins - or gets closer to that limit (side question: is the health of the fund public?). In fear of their money, they will sell all their GoldCoins as fast as possible. The fund goes bankrupt.
My question: What happens in such a case??? The escrow fund cannot buy the GoldCoins back, due to the lack of MasterCoins. As a result, the value of a GoldCoin drops to a marginal value. Will the escrow fund then
a) still sell GoldCoins for the market price of real gold? If so, certainly nobody will buy any and the currency is dead forever.
b) sell GoldCoins for a much lower price. But even then, the 'health' of the fund remains horrible. Nobody will invest, except for ridiculously low prices, maybe in the 1% range of the value of real gold. Thus, the fund can only recover, if the value of a MasterCoin suddenly rises by a factor of 100 - which is very unlikely.
I think that every user currency will face such a sitation once (and only once
), so my assumption is that they will all eventually die.
The risk that this will happen gets amplified by the investors knowing that this CAN happen. So they will reject their user currencies, as soon they see a small profit of a few %.
Is there an idea how to prevent this threat?
If you think that my concerns are serious, I'd be happy about a bounty
18vzopGHgPikz3Sp7FfVRxqxRn1NY5Zxq8
I assume, we are all sane people. We invest in XZXcoins (e.g. GoldCoins) in the hope the price of gold rises and then withdraw more money at a later time. In some cases, the value will fall, in others it will rise indeed. Let us consider a case, in which the value rose to an all-time high and further assume that the value of a MasterCoin remained constant during this time or even lost value (this will happen sometimes, even assumed that the Mastercoins rise in the long term).
The following will happen: Some people will sell their GoldCoins. Others see that the remaining balance in the escrow fund falls below the sum of the value of all existing GoldCoins - or gets closer to that limit (side question: is the health of the fund public?). In fear of their money, they will sell all their GoldCoins as fast as possible. The fund goes bankrupt.
My question: What happens in such a case??? The escrow fund cannot buy the GoldCoins back, due to the lack of MasterCoins. As a result, the value of a GoldCoin drops to a marginal value. Will the escrow fund then
a) still sell GoldCoins for the market price of real gold? If so, certainly nobody will buy any and the currency is dead forever.
b) sell GoldCoins for a much lower price. But even then, the 'health' of the fund remains horrible. Nobody will invest, except for ridiculously low prices, maybe in the 1% range of the value of real gold. Thus, the fund can only recover, if the value of a MasterCoin suddenly rises by a factor of 100 - which is very unlikely.
I think that every user currency will face such a sitation once (and only once
), so my assumption is that they will all eventually die.The risk that this will happen gets amplified by the investors knowing that this CAN happen. So they will reject their user currencies, as soon they see a small profit of a few %.
Is there an idea how to prevent this threat?
If you think that my concerns are serious, I'd be happy about a bounty
18vzopGHgPikz3Sp7FfVRxqxRn1NY5Zxq8There is an attack which has been described which works like this, and two guys are getting a bounty already for enumerating it (I'm not taking any money out of the Exodus Address until after this month). (...)
I didn't mention an attack. This is what I think can happen any time when people are concerned about their investment.
(...) The attack requires the ability to borrow and short distributed currency (which is notoriously hard), and then you can attack an escrow fund which is under-funded (under-funded means that the MasterCoins held in escrow are worth less than the currency they support). (...)
Also, in my described scenario, there is no need to being able to borrow and short distributed currency. But you try to argue against it by stating "which is notoriously hard" [to do].
(...) Just how under-funded the escrow fund would have to be will be an interesting experiment. The next revision of the spec will include some changes to make escrow-backed currencies better at keeping their escrow funds healthy, to avoid this attack. When we get to the point of implementing this part of the spec, I plan to create some unsustainable currencies, "just to watch them die". Their data-stream will simply go up at 10% per week or something absurd like that, and we'll learn a lot from watching their deaths. (...)
Will this be done with test-Mastercoins or real Mastercoins?
(...) It's worth noting that implementing this is the LAST planned milestone, as everyone agrees that it is the riskiest part of the spec (although it's also the part of the spec that I am most excited about). By the time we get here, we'll have multiple clients which can do savings wallets, distributed betting, smart property, distributed currency exchange, and hopefully numerous other things. If we get that far, frankly, we'll all be so stupidly rich that it won't be the end of the world if escrow funds aren't the trillionaire-creating mega-success that I imagine them to be.
I doubt that... But good luck!
August 31, 2013, 11:40:48 AM
...
- He chooses a coin that has 'matured', meaning many users bought such coins, and consequently the escrow fund has a lot of money in it. Let's call them X_coins, where X is e.g. the share of a company.
- Next, he buys a HUGE amount of REAL shares of the company, resulting in a considerable rise of the value of share X.
- Then, he sells all his X_coins to the escrow fund. If the number of coins is unlimited, he makes a HUGE profit, and the escrow fund goes bankrupt.
- As the last step, he sells his real company shares.
His profit will be the initial value of the escrow fund - minus some losses due to the response of the market.
...
- He chooses a coin that has 'matured', meaning many users bought such coins, and consequently the escrow fund has a lot of money in it. Let's call them X_coins, where X is e.g. the share of a company.
- Next, he buys a HUGE amount of REAL shares of the company, resulting in a considerable rise of the value of share X.
- Then, he sells all his X_coins to the escrow fund. If the number of coins is unlimited, he makes a HUGE profit, and the escrow fund goes bankrupt.
- As the last step, he sells his real company shares.
His profit will be the initial value of the escrow fund - minus some losses due to the response of the market.
...
The attack you describe would only work on a very fast-acting escrow fund. Attempts at market-manipulation like this simply result in both prices moving, slightly out of step with each other. The escrow fund only corrects very long-term differences, not short-term differences.
Thanks for clarification! But I didn't say that everything has to happen instantaniously. I can wait until the escrow fund has stabilized again and then sell my coins.
But to further analyze this, I have another question regarding the aggression factor - I am not sure whether this one has been discussed.
Consider the following scenario:
1 (real) share of a company X is traded for 100 USD. Let's further assume 1 USD is traded for 1 Mastercoin, so 1 share is roughly 100 Mastercoins, and consequently 1 Xcoin is traded for 100 Mastercoins. Let's assume that the aggression factor is such that the equilibrium of the coin sets in after 1 week.
Let's assume that some bad news about the company become public, and the real value of the share instantaneously drops to 50 USD.
According to your paper, the escrow fund now tries to decrease the price of a Xcoin steadily to 50 Mastercoins, by trying to flood the market with Xcoins. So it trades Xcoins beginning at 100 Mastercoins and steadily decreases the price until 50 Mastercoins are reached after 1 week. That's the idea, right? What remains unclear in the paper: At any time within this week, at which price does the escrow fund
- sell Xcoins?
- buy Xcoins?
Escrow fund selling Xcoins: I assume that no sane person will buy Xcoins for - let's say - 90 Mastercoins on the first day, because it is clear that they will be worth only 50 Mastercoins after a week. So trading will interrupt for a week.
Escrow fund buying Xcoins: Obviously, the escrow fund has to set the price to 50 Mastercoins or less - instantly! Otherwise, people can sell their coins to the escrow fund and buy cheap ones a week later, which would ruin the fund.
Does the 'aggression factor' only apply to the fund selling Xcoins? But assuming sanity of people, that won't work.
Can you please clarify? Thanks
edit: The opposite thing of course if the share suddently hoiks. In this case, does the 'aggression factor' only apply to the fund buying Xcoins?
August 31, 2013, 11:06:12 AM
Could mastercoin be used to issue/trade shares in IPOs?
Would that mean that a place like btct.co and havelock Investment would be made somewhat redundant?
This is a grey area. Yes a coin could be issued that tracks the value of a share on some exchange. Issuing shares are another matter all together. It is technologically possible to have "real" assets owned by a derivative coin of mastercoin but trust and law come into play.
I'm certain Mastercoin protocol can evolve to include features no one has even thought of yet including real assets.
August 31, 2013, 10:58:01 AM
raised $445400, holy crap!
August 31, 2013, 07:03:43 AM
Could mastercoin be used to issue/trade shares in IPOs?
Would that mean that a place like btct.co and havelock Investment would be made somewhat redundant?
August 31, 2013, 05:36:30 AM
Is there some way to invest with a webwallet?
Some way where its not required to download the blockchain?
dacoinminster said in the main hu post that blockchain.info wallet will work to purchase with, anyway have a look there first and read carefully, I do not claim it right or wrong! Some way where its not required to download the blockchain?
August 31, 2013, 05:06:57 AM
Is there some way to invest with a webwallet?
Some way where its not required to download the blockchain?
Some way where its not required to download the blockchain?
August 31, 2013, 04:55:43 AM
Someone just invested 500 BTCs.
missed out on the 40% bonus
August 31, 2013, 04:50:48 AM
Someone just invested 500 BTCs.
August 31, 2013, 03:34:57 AM
Very interested in this.
@dacoinminster: Can I send you my BTC during August 31st (today)? I was going to send them yesterday, but I have to download the whole blockchain in the qt wallet.
@dacoinminster: Can I send you my BTC during August 31st (today)? I was going to send them yesterday, but I have to download the whole blockchain in the qt wallet.
See my note about the deadline a few posts back. The deadline is the turn of the month, UTC. Right now that's just over 24 hours away.
I have reason to believe there will be significant activity on the Exodus Address over the next 24 hours. Also, I WILL BE OFFLINE FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THAT TIME, STARTING IN ONE HOUR
I spend my weekends 100% focused on my family. No exceptions. If a bajillion dollars come in, I WON'T EVEN KNOW until I get online - possibly very briefly Sunday, or possibly not even until Monday.
If that doesn't make me a strange person (especially considering I am a software dev) I don't know what does. But there you have it. I'm a fanatical family man.
I've been getting tons of emails lately with last-minute questions. Starting very soon, those emails will go unanswered (until Monday, when it is too late).
This is of course why I need to hire someone
I decided to send my BTC to a friend, and he will send them to the Exodus Address to buy mastercoins for me. That way I will surely be in time, no need waiting for the whole blockchain.
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