Yes, but Willett is taking a little break until Monday. Presumably to refocus on his actual job and family for a bit while he mulls things over.
No problem, I can wait.
Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 146. (Read 448489 times)
August 07, 2013, 05:41:46 PM
No problem, I can wait.
August 07, 2013, 05:35:51 PM
Yes, but Willett is taking a little break until Monday. Presumably to refocus on his actual job and family for a bit while he mulls things over.
August 07, 2013, 05:29:40 PM
Can we take this specific bounty discussion here?
August 07, 2013, 05:11:39 PM
I'm going offline until tomorrow, but you guys have my sincere thanks.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Too much stuff going on, I haven't seen what they're being tipped for.
I've started a new Google Group dedicated to MasterCoin.
Willet - can you:
1. Put it in the OP
2. Start a thread describing this tipping and their contribution?
i'd prefer if bytemaster gets 3, daniel gets like 2BTC and thezerg gets 1. just in my eyes first second and third place, but that's just me. or maybe 1.5 between zerg and dan. discuss?
Join my forum and discuss in a separate, dedicated thread?
I have no idea what's going on with the bounty.
they convinced Willett that the last milestone as Willett specified would be unworkable. the tip is for their persistence upon doing so.
from here up:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2880303
August 07, 2013, 05:10:39 PM
I'm going offline until tomorrow, but you guys have my sincere thanks.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Too much stuff going on, I haven't seen what they're being tipped for.
I've started a new Google Group dedicated to MasterCoin.
Willet - can you:
1. Put it in the OP
2. Start a thread describing this tipping and their contribution?
i'd prefer if bytemaster gets 3, daniel gets like 2BTC and thezerg gets 1. just in my eyes first second and third place, but that's just me. or maybe 1.5 between zerg and dan. discuss?
Join my forum and discuss in a separate, dedicated thread?
I have no idea what's going on with the bounty.
August 07, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
I'm going offline until tomorrow, but you guys have my sincere thanks.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Too much stuff going on, I haven't seen what they're being tipped for.
I've started a new Google Group dedicated to MasterCoin.
Willet - can you:
1. Put it in the OP
2. Start a thread describing this tipping and their contribution?
i'd prefer if bytemaster gets 3, daniel gets like 2BTC and thezerg gets 1. just in my eyes first second and third place, but that's just me. or maybe 1.5 between zerg and dan. discuss?
August 07, 2013, 05:02:27 PM
When is the deadline for the 30% bonus?
I assume it's any deposits before August 7th, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
I assume it's any deposits before August 7th, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
I think it's a math function. if there are 3.4 weeks left then you get 34% for instance
August 07, 2013, 04:43:38 PM
I'm going offline until tomorrow, but you guys have my sincere thanks.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Ripper and vokain, I didn't officially set up a bounty, but I would like tip these two guys (maybe 3 BTC each) once I start tapping Exodus Address funds September 1st. Do you approve?
bytemaster needs a tip for his insane persistence, and d'aniel for actually describing the attack that bytemaster felt must exist.
Too much stuff going on, I haven't seen what they're being tipped for.
I've started a new Google Group dedicated to MasterCoin.
Willet - can you:
1. Put it in the OP
2. Start a thread describing this tipping and their contribution?
August 07, 2013, 04:43:10 PM
When is the deadline for the 30% bonus?
I assume it's any deposits before August 7th, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
I assume it's any deposits before August 7th, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
If I understand correctly, there is no deadline - the bonus is continuous.
August 07, 2013, 04:19:47 PM
When is the deadline for the 30% bonus?
I assume it's any deposits before August 7th, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
I assume it's any deposits before August 7th, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
August 07, 2013, 01:28:00 PM
Having perused the spec, three words pop into my mind:
Ripple The Cripple
Ripple The Cripple
August 07, 2013, 11:44:36 AM
don't quit pondering, there's always a way, just maybe not the way you thought it would be the past year. 
August 07, 2013, 10:26:16 AM
I realize that there are more issues to be addressed since I last posted, but I am now behind on my other responsibilities, and need to take a break from this thread. Also, I'll be offline tomorrow through Sunday for vacation. I will try to catch up with everything when I return on Monday.
A couple updates about the project:
I have promised not to touch project funds until September, so bytemaster and d'aniel, I hope you don't mind waiting until then for your reward (Ripper hasn't responded about this, but I'm assuming he won't object).
Thanks everyone!
A couple updates about the project:
- Yesterday I purchased the laptop for ~$860 which I will be using for development. After talking to my wife, we decided that we probably would have bought this laptop anyway, so probably only partial reimbursement would be appropriate from project funds. I'll discuss this more with the oversight board later.
- When I next update the spec, I plan to add a "create property" transaction and "transfer property" transaction, which could be used for car titles, house deeds, or just plain old colored coins
- Over many pages of posts, it was established that the old escrow-backed currency model I proposed does have a critical weakness when the escrow is under-funded. We discussed several potential fixes which I believe could work, but given the controversial nature of this feature I think it makes sense to implement it last!
I have promised not to touch project funds until September, so bytemaster and d'aniel, I hope you don't mind waiting until then for your reward (Ripper hasn't responded about this, but I'm assuming he won't object).
Thanks everyone!
August 07, 2013, 09:51:19 AM
4) As a result of 0-3, it follows that prices cannot be calculated at any time because prices are the result of value judgements and there is no means of performing mathematical operations on 'value'. Prices do not define value, values cause prices.
+1 this is the crux of the issue, and was what I was trying to get across before.
Some people say they want a coin with a stable price, but do they, really? What they actually want is a coin that is valued such that they can rely on it's price. That's an altogether different thing.
Something has a reliably stable price over time because people trust and assign a stable value to it.
However the corollary is NOT true. I can try to sell my turds for a fixed price. That in no way makes them valuable. Furthermore, the minute any fools are lured into paying my "stable price" for them, someone else smarter and richer will be able to profit by speculating on their real value.
Exactly. They don't want stability, but some might want low risk investments. Low risk =| artificial stability. I love the irony of trying to make something low risk in Bitcoin, considering Bitcoin's current nature of being through-the-roof-high-risk. Mastercoin at it's current state is not economically viable and would be doomed from the start as bytemaster and others painfully have tried to explain over ten folds of posts.
Combined with the above mentioned vital faults in the white paper, the funds being funneled directly into his "private" Bitcoin address and how the project was rushed along spawned the initial scam accusations.
August 07, 2013, 08:08:27 AM
4) As a result of 0-3, it follows that prices cannot be calculated at any time because prices are the result of value judgements and there is no means of performing mathematical operations on 'value'. Prices do not define value, values cause prices.
+1 this is the crux of the issue, and was what I was trying to get across before.
Some people say they want a coin with a stable price, but do they, really? What they actually want is a coin that is valued such that they can rely on it's price. That's an altogether different thing.
Something has a reliably stable price over time because people trust and assign a stable value to it.
However the corollary is NOT true. I can try to sell my turds for a fixed price. That in no way makes them valuable. Furthermore, the minute any fools are lured into paying my "stable price" for them, someone else smarter and richer will be able to profit by speculating on their real value.
August 07, 2013, 06:42:35 AM
tl;dr: funds will likely be in either an m-of-n wallet so that he needs 2/3 keys to spend the coins or maybe a variation thereof in the case that votes will be tallied by investment size (seems to be more fair). the keys will be held by as-of-yet formalized, independent holders who have a desire to see the project through to fruition AND keeping the fund healthy. we just have to trust Willett to keep 1exodus safe until then.
Like I said, he personally controls all the fund.
This is a direct donation of money to a single person with no escrow or return guarantees.
If that changes in the future, my statement will no longer be true, but right now, it is.
True.
August 07, 2013, 06:17:58 AM
tl;dr: funds will likely be in either an m-of-n wallet so that he needs 2/3 keys to spend the coins or maybe a variation thereof in the case that votes will be tallied by investment size (seems to be more fair). the keys will be held by as-of-yet formalized, independent holders who have a desire to see the project through to fruition AND keeping the fund healthy. we just have to trust Willett to keep 1exodus safe until then.
Like I said, he personally controls all the fund.
This is a direct donation of money to a single person with no escrow or return guarantees.
If that changes in the future, my statement will no longer be true, but right now, it is.
August 07, 2013, 05:57:20 AM
However, an unhealthy fund can eventually become healthy by continuing to buy GC low and sell GC high! If MasterCoins don't crater, a modestly unhealthy escrow fund still stands a decent chance of getting back to 100% funded
This is a logically fallacy, it has an inbuilt assumption that the currency will overall rise in value.
You have no way of knowing at any particular point in time whether the value is 'low' or 'high'.
If you buy at a certain point, and then the currency diminishes in value further, you have lost.
Do you continue to buy, because the currency is now at a new 'low'?
You keep doubling down, and without an infinite reserve, you will go bust.
August 07, 2013, 05:43:25 AM
It appears that my method of funding this project is still quite contentious. I want to address a couple of those issues further:
- Some of you seem to think that my own money is not at risk if this project fails. That is not true. If this project fails (probably because somebody else does something similar, but does it better and/or faster), I would return any remaining funds to investors. I would get a partial refund just like everyone else.
But there is no way of guaranteeing that, as you personally control all the funds.
Quote
- I modeled this fundraiser like a kick-starter, but investors are motivated similarly to angel investors (venture capitalists investing in early stage companies). The risk they are taking is very high, but the potential reward is very high as well.
With Kickstarter, a project has a set funding target, which it must meet to proceed.
If a project fails to reach its targets, all funds are returned to the investors.
The funds are escrowed by a trusted third party.
None of things is true here
[/list]
Keep reading.....
tl;dr: funds will likely be in either an m-of-n wallet so that he needs 2/3 keys to spend the coins or maybe a variation thereof in the case that votes will be tallied by investment size (seems to be more fair). the keys will be held by as-of-yet formalized, independent holders who have a desire to see the project through to fruition AND keeping the fund healthy. we just have to trust Willett to keep 1exodus safe until then.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2878316
August 07, 2013, 05:38:54 AM
It appears that my method of funding this project is still quite contentious. I want to address a couple of those issues further:
- Some of you seem to think that my own money is not at risk if this project fails. That is not true. If this project fails (probably because somebody else does something similar, but does it better and/or faster), I would return any remaining funds to investors. I would get a partial refund just like everyone else.
But there is no way of guaranteeing that, as you personally control all the funds.
Quote
- I modeled this fundraiser like a kick-starter, but investors are motivated similarly to angel investors (venture capitalists investing in early stage companies). The risk they are taking is very high, but the potential reward is very high as well.
With Kickstarter, a project has a set funding target, which it must meet to proceed.
If a project fails to reach its targets, all funds are returned to the investors.
The funds are escrowed by a trusted third party.
None of things is true here
[/list]
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