Pages:
Author

Topic: Matching public key with directory.io - why so difficult? - page 2. (Read 3703 times)

newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 1
OK, this makes a bit more sense now. My "algorithm" for determining the key to use would make it more vulnerable to attack than a randomly generated key. But I still have an issue with this and it would be a really interesting study.

What's the greater risk?:

1) Using my method where it's a simple algorithm for me to remember the page number and location via a HUGE (and I mean HUGE) string of numbers - i.e. not your typical internet password. This wallet would exist in my head. Despite this, it's more vulnerable to attack because it doesn't have the entropy of a purely randomly generated number.

2) Using a randomly generated key which is less prone to attack, but is more easily forgotten or the details of which more easily lost. (This key would have to be stored somewhere physical, opening it up to being attacked in a way the first option wouldn't.)

I wonder what the figures are in terms of dollar value lost due to i) hacking ii) simply losing your private key.

I've already spoken to one guy who lost over 1000 bitcoin on a hard drive somewhere, and I bet most of you have heard similar stories. I would almost hazard that simple user clumsiness (i.e. option ii) is a greater threat to your wealth than being hacked.

I actually don't see why it's so terrible if I do it offline, air-gapped? Doesn't this directory list ALL potential private keys? It's not as if I'd use page 235 key 15 as my address...my choice would be far more sophisticated than that.
Using directory.io to choose your private key is a horrible idea, regardless of whether you are online or offline. Private keys are only secure if they are randomly generated using a cryptographically secure random number generator. By using directory.io (or any other list of private keys) to select your private keys manually, you are significantly reducing your security because humans are notoriously bad at securely generating random numbers. You as a human do not provide enough entropy to actually choose a random number randomly, which means that whatever private key you choose will be insecure and more likely to be easily brute forced.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
I actually don't see why it's so terrible if I do it offline, air-gapped? Doesn't this directory list ALL potential private keys? It's not as if I'd use page 235 key 15 as my address...my choice would be far more sophisticated than that.
Using directory.io to choose your private key is a horrible idea, regardless of whether you are online or offline. Private keys are only secure if they are randomly generated using a cryptographically secure random number generator. By using directory.io (or any other list of private keys) to select your private keys manually, you are significantly reducing your security because humans are notoriously bad at securely generating random numbers. You as a human do not provide enough entropy to actually choose a random number randomly, which means that whatever private key you choose will be insecure and more likely to be easily brute forced.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 1
https://lbc.cryptoguru.org/stats

I love this stuff! Thanks. I've seen the puzzle transaction - that's cool.

FYI:  The first 54970.38 billion pages on directory.io have already been searched for active Bitcoins and a few were found.  Most if not all of the bitcoins found in these first 54970.38 billion pages were placed there on purpose as a sort of "canary in a coal mine" test of the security of the network.

See the search project (started at private key 0 and searching the private key space linearly, currently running about 21.10 trillion keys per day): 

https://lbc.cryptoguru.org/stats

And the "puzzle transaction" security test is discussed here: 

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-puzzle-transaction-32-btc-prize-to-who-solves-it-1306983
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 1
I actually don't see why it's so terrible if I do it offline, air-gapped? Doesn't this directory list ALL potential private keys? It's not as if I'd use page 235 key 15 as my address...my choice would be far more sophisticated than that.


I've been thinking a bit and to me this site could be the perfect cold wallet generator. It gives you a means of choosing an address to store your bitcoin which would be very easy to look up. You remember by page number and location on the page, rather than by address. It means you CHOOSE your address rather than in the case of those other sites which choose one for you at random.

I would like to be able to use this page offline on an air-gapped computer, but the code has been hidden and it's only possible to use online. Is there a way of getting it offline?

Thanks,

Ag
Its an absolutely terrible idea. Humans SHOULD NOT be allowed to choose their own private key from a pool of addresses. The level of security you can expect from an address in directory.io should be considered as insecure as brainwallet generated from key phrase "correct battery horse staple". The problem with you picking an address that is already generated means that anyone else would have a decent chance (higher chance than someone generating a conflicting address) of finding your address and the corresponding private key. Needless to say, the database can be modified or removed at any time. Most clients generates addresses securely and it is never an issue.

Tl;Dr: It is an extremely bad idea and its stupid for anyone to use an address listed there.
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1137
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
FYI:  The first 54970.38 billion pages on directory.io have already been searched for active Bitcoins and a few were found.  Most if not all of the bitcoins found in these first 54970.38 billion pages were placed there on purpose as a sort of "canary in a coal mine" test of the security of the network.

See the search project (started at private key 0 and searching the private key space linearly, currently running about 21.10 trillion keys per day): 

https://lbc.cryptoguru.org/stats

And the "puzzle transaction" security test is discussed here: 

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-puzzle-transaction-32-btc-prize-to-who-solves-it-1306983
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 4418
Crypto Swap Exchange
I've been thinking a bit and to me this site could be the perfect cold wallet generator. It gives you a means of choosing an address to store your bitcoin which would be very easy to look up. You remember by page number and location on the page, rather than by address. It means you CHOOSE your address rather than in the case of those other sites which choose one for you at random.

I would like to be able to use this page offline on an air-gapped computer, but the code has been hidden and it's only possible to use online. Is there a way of getting it offline?

Thanks,

Ag
Its an absolutely terrible idea. Humans SHOULD NOT be allowed to choose their own private key from a pool of addresses. The level of security you can expect from an address in directory.io should be considered as insecure as brainwallet generated from key phrase "correct battery horse staple". The problem with you picking an address that is already generated means that anyone else would have a decent chance (higher chance than someone generating a conflicting address) of finding your address and the corresponding private key. Needless to say, the database can be modified or removed at any time. Most clients generates addresses securely and it is never an issue.

Tl;Dr: It is an extremely bad idea and its stupid for anyone to use an address listed there.
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 26
Some corrections:
Address is a ripemod160 hash, so there are "only"
2^160 =
1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976
different addresses, that you need to check.
not the 2^256=
115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936

You are right. Thanks for the correction.
full member
Activity: 378
Merit: 197
It is required some kind of break through in computation for collisions to happen, people speculate it may be achieved with quantum computing.

No.
With a quantum computer it is possible to calculate the private key from the public key.
BUT,
if you use bitcoin "correctly" and you do not reuse the same bitcoin address, your public key is not visible to the attacker. So he would not be able to get your private key even with the help of a quantum computer.

The sha256 hash algorithm used in bitcoin, to generate address from public key, is quantum computer resistant.

But there are many bitcoin addresses, which are reused, and which do have sent actions in them, and those are vulnerable to quantum computers as the public key is visible.
There are more than 1000 000 bitcoins in such addresses.
full member
Activity: 378
Merit: 197
I did simple math to show that such a brute force attack on private keys is more or less useless.
Possible private Keys: 2^256 = 115792089237316000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Some corrections:
Address is a ripemod160 hash, so there are "only"
2^160 =
1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976
different addresses, that you need to check.
not the 2^256=
115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936

And if you are not looking for one specific private key for the one address you want to find, but just try to find ANY address, that has bitcoins in it. (about 2000000 addresses) then you have to check only:
(2^160)/2000000=
730750818665451426033988086967063606722560
addresses.

A lot easier, but the result is still the same. It is not possible with the computers in existence now.
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 26
I wrote an answer in another topic where someone tried to find private keys with balance on it.

I did simple math to show that such a brute force attack on private keys is more or less useless.


If I didn't made any mistake, this is what you can expect if you are able to check addresses with the current Bitcoin Hashrate.

Current Hashrate: 7,935,318,596 GH/s

Possible private Keys: 2^256 = 115792089237316000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

To try all possible keys with the speed of the current hashrate it would take you 14591990138226200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 seconds or 462708971912298000000000000000000000000000000000000 years.

And by the way, the age of the universe is around 13000000000 years.
So it would take 35592997839407500000000000000000000000000 times the age of the universe to check all addresses.

As I saw a comment before, that this program is able to test unbelievable 2-3 keys/second.... well, good luck then  Grin
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 1
I've been thinking a bit and to me this site could be the perfect cold wallet generator. It gives you a means of choosing an address to store your bitcoin which would be very easy to look up. You remember by page number and location on the page, rather than by address. It means you CHOOSE your address rather than in the case of those other sites which choose one for you at random.

I would like to be able to use this page offline on an air-gapped computer, but the code has been hidden and it's only possible to use online. Is there a way of getting it offline?

Thanks,

Ag
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 389
Do not trust the government
People might use some of those addresses for fun. Probably fist one was used as well. But since everyone knows the private keys for those addresses, there aren't any coins left there for long. There also might be some buggy wallets that generate addresses with no randomness and use small values for private keys.

Some people have a lot of money in bitcoin, so they want to be as secure as reasonably possible. Computers often have malware, antiviruses or even secure operating systems aren't enough in practice to keep you safe for more then few years. Security is pretty hard.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 1
Thanks heaps for all answers.

Haha, this is brilliant. I haven't done a lot of computer programming, but I'm guessing the code to create this page isn't terribly involved. I might even send some crypto to him/ her just because it's such a good joke.

Someone found an address on there that had some bitcoin on it at some stage - I think it's on page 1337. Is this just fluke, or did the owner find it and advertise the fact?

(Insert: It's the 17xy address. Why doesn't the compressed address show the same info?)

I wonder why people go to such lengths with Nano devices when a public-private key pair generated by an offline, air-gapped computer is for all intents and purposes unhackable.

Cheers.

lol, please donate it took alot of computational power to generate this list , this guy is smart , he got me at first .


sr. member
Activity: 661
Merit: 258
lol, please donate it took alot of computational power to generate this list , this guy is smart , he got me at first .
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4801
- What's to stop someone simply using this website to look up a particular address and find the corresponding private key?

You can't look up an address without knowing it's private key.  If you know the private key already, then there is no need to look up the address.

- Is the list simply so large that it would take an eternity to actually find the relevant address with a computer program?

Correct. Also, it is in private key order.  Therefore, by knowing a private key you can jump directly to the correct location in the list and instantly find the associated address, but if all you know is the address then you don't know what page to look on.

- I'm assuming this list has code behind it and it generates each page as required - i.e. it's not a static list?

Correct.

- Why did this database require such a huge amount of computing power if the list is dynamically populated?

It is not a database, and it didn't require a huge amount of computing power.  That's a joke.
legendary
Activity: 2786
Merit: 1031
It is required some kind of break through in computation for collisions to happen, people speculate it may be achieved with quantum computing.

Check out this article: https://www.miguelmoreno.net/bitcoin-address-collision/
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1723
Hi everyone,

I've read up on the close-to-impossibility of randomly generating a private key which matches a given public address (e.g. grains of sand analogy). I'm still trying to answer a few of my own questions, however.

My current questions relate to this: http://directory.io/

- What's to stop someone simply using this website to look up a particular address and find the corresponding private key?
- Is the list simply so large that it would take an eternity to actually find the relevant address with a computer program?
- I'm assuming this list has code behind it and it generates each page as required - i.e. it's not a static list?
- Why did this database require such a huge amount of computing power if the list is dynamically populated?

I find this list totally fascinating! I might even send a donation at some point...

Thanks for any help.

Agnosticus

The website is useless because it doesn't have one particular function, search.

All that website does is compute private keys starting from 0. The website isn't a database but more of like a active service, you put in a page number and then it calculates the private keys and generates them, its more of a parody than anything else.

newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 1
Hi everyone,

I've read up on the close-to-impossibility of randomly generating a private key which matches a given public address (e.g. grains of sand analogy). I'm still trying to answer a few of my own questions, however.

My current questions relate to this: http://directory.io/

- What's to stop someone simply using this website to look up a particular address and find the corresponding private key?
- Is the list simply so large that it would take an eternity to actually find the relevant address with a computer program?
- I'm assuming this list has code behind it and it generates each page as required - i.e. it's not a static list?
- Why did this database require such a huge amount of computing power if the list is dynamically populated?

I find this list totally fascinating! I might even send a donation at some point...

Thanks for any help.

Agnosticus
Pages:
Jump to: