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Topic: Math problem regarding recovery seed - page 2. (Read 868 times)

legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
January 05, 2019, 12:02:39 AM
#5
(24 choose 4) is the number of ways you can choose 4 items from a set of 24 elements. 4! is the number of ways you can order those 4 elements.

it can not be 4! because after choosing the 4 words there is no difference between changing the position of (1 with 2) and (2 with 1). the number of possible combinations are 7:
1234
2134
3214
4231
1324
1432
1243

the number of possibilities can be further reduced if we exclude cases like swapping Word5 and word6 (two consecutive words)
legendary
Activity: 861
Merit: 1010
January 04, 2019, 10:24:02 PM
#4
I am not sure exactly what I did either...

I have 24 words, I am pretty sure there are correct.

I am also pretty sure most of them are in the right position. Only few of them, probably 4, are not in a correct position, because I used to move the position of 4 words for my "encryption" .
But now I don't know which 20 words are in the right position. I think the fact that there is 20 words in the right position, even if we don't know which, allows to greatly reduce the number of combination.
legendary
Activity: 861
Merit: 1010
January 04, 2019, 10:01:23 PM
#3
What do you mean by "inverted the position of two of those words, two times"? How exactly you did that will affect the number of possibilities (as some orderings could be ruled out).

The upper bound to this is (24 choose 4) * 4! = 255024. (24 choose 4) is the number of ways you can choose 4 items from a set of 24 elements. 4! is the number of ways you can order those 4 elements. This is a multiplication since for each way you can choose 4 items, there are 4! ways you can rearrange them.
Let's say the seed is:
Word1 Word2 Word3 Word4 Word5 Word6 Word7 Word8 Word9 Word10 Word11 Word12 Word13 Word14 Word15 Word16 Word17 Word18 Word19 Word20 Word21 Word22 Word23 Word24

Well, my "encryption" technique was to write in that order:
Word1 Word23 Word3 Word21 Word5 Word6 Word7 Word8 Word9 Word10 Word11 Word12 Word13 Word14 Word15 Word16 Word17 Word18 Word19 Word20 Word4 Word22 Word2 Word24

So I switched Word2 <> Word23 and Word21 <> Word4

But when I try to revert that, this doesn't work. So I must have screwed up somewhere. My hypothesis is that I have inverted the "wrong" words, but I don't know which ones.
The inversion should have been made in a symetrical position, like in my example.
But since I screw up, maybe I have switched words in a non symetrical position.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
January 04, 2019, 09:36:23 PM
#2
What do you mean by "inverted the position of two of those words, two times"? How exactly you did that will affect the number of possibilities (as some orderings could be ruled out).

The upper bound to this is (24 choose 4) * 4! = 255024. (24 choose 4) is the number of ways you can choose 4 items from a set of 24 elements. 4! is the number of ways you can order those 4 elements. This is a multiplication since for each way you can choose 4 items, there are 4! ways you can rearrange them.
legendary
Activity: 861
Merit: 1010
January 04, 2019, 08:59:41 PM
#1
Hi,

I have a math problem regarding my recovery seed for the Ledger Nano S.

There are 24 words. I have written down the 24 words. But as an encryption method, I have inverted the position of two of these words, two times.

I thought I know eaxctly whose of those words were inverted, but apparently this is not the case because when I enter the words in the order that I thought would be correct, this is not a valid seed.

So you could say I am very stupid, but anyway, let's work with that.

So I have 24 words. 20 words are in the right position, and 4 words are in the wrong position. I don't know which words are in good position and which words are in a bad position.

How many possibilities there are?
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