guess the come back wasn't a lie.
Topic: MATHEMATICALLY Impossible for BITCOIN to "Come Back" - Why tell ppl lies? - page 2. (Read 969 times)
November 12, 2020, 04:15:55 PM
sry for necroing. just stumbled over op headline...
guess the come back wasn't a lie.
guess the come back wasn't a lie.
December 06, 2018, 09:18:09 AM
Quote
99 % of bitcoins are in hodler hands.
I like that talk through but I think there is more coins circulating then 1% Its no negative for people to keep reusing the currency, if anything I believe we have more to thank them for the value that exists to BTC. But yea the whole market cap thing is a guesstimate, working turnover probably matters far more. Same goes for all the exchange pricing, I only really value real world usage especially
My point was to show 2 extreme examples to help OP understand that marketcap is not amount of money need to be put into market to boost to current price. I agree with you that there are more than 1% circulating coins.
December 06, 2018, 06:58:49 AM
the money is circulating and the money currently available is much different bro.
it looks like you have to stop spreading panic, if you can't stand please leave here because everything you say is just a superficial mindset.
it looks like you have to stop spreading panic, if you can't stand please leave here because everything you say is just a superficial mindset.
December 06, 2018, 06:32:25 AM
I believe that investors from all over the world will come and join crypto there is no impossible for the capitalization to grow upto a Trillion bucks.what you are mentioning who invested last year is just a small part of the target markt of this community ,if the mass adaptations happens in future,theres nothing impossible to reach the hype again
December 06, 2018, 06:06:46 AM
I think the Federal Reserve has an influence on all prices to some extent because they are part of the backing to the dollar and control interest rates. Recently they indicated they might slow down or stop raising rates any further then this level which is significant for future Dollar strength speculation. Since almost everything is sold in dollars, with value having dollar as a denominator it can make even BTC less bearish
But DXY or Dollar index has not moved down. Tides take time to turn
I assume BTC has an ongoing headwind
I've thought for a long time its not USA based buyers of BTC that are real movers, its more the foreign recipients of Dollar or all the places that USA imports from. They repatriate their currency via BTC to the rest of the world and could be a large part of usage and strength behind the market
I like that talk through but I think there is more coins circulating then 1% Its no negative for people to keep reusing the currency, if anything I believe we have more to thank them for the value that exists to BTC. But yea the whole market cap thing is a guesstimate, working turnover probably matters far more. Same goes for all the exchange pricing, I only really value real world usage especially
But DXY or Dollar index has not moved down. Tides take time to turn
I assume BTC has an ongoing headwind
Quote
but it isn't just people in USA buying Bitcoin with their precious dollars too
I've thought for a long time its not USA based buyers of BTC that are real movers, its more the foreign recipients of Dollar or all the places that USA imports from. They repatriate their currency via BTC to the rest of the world and could be a large part of usage and strength behind the market
Quote
99 % of bitcoins are in hodler hands.
I like that talk through but I think there is more coins circulating then 1% Its no negative for people to keep reusing the currency, if anything I believe we have more to thank them for the value that exists to BTC. But yea the whole market cap thing is a guesstimate, working turnover probably matters far more. Same goes for all the exchange pricing, I only really value real world usage especially
December 04, 2018, 04:19:49 PM
Love it when people still think the Federal Reserve is able to influence Bitcoin this much, they didn't print billions to dump on anything, and sorry but it isn't just people in USA buying Bitcoin with their precious dollars too.
Not that I'm going to provide a more scientific or mathematical alternative, but it might be worth reminding that just because there is price and numbers, doesn't mean every single coin is backed by some US dollar somewhere in someone's pocket. A lot more people are "owning" and "trading" Bitcoin without even actually moving or controlling a single satoshi.
Not that I'm going to provide a more scientific or mathematical alternative, but it might be worth reminding that just because there is price and numbers, doesn't mean every single coin is backed by some US dollar somewhere in someone's pocket. A lot more people are "owning" and "trading" Bitcoin without even actually moving or controlling a single satoshi.
December 04, 2018, 01:46:37 PM
Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.
But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.
Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?
In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,
Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,
How in the hell is it coming back??
Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??
From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,
Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...
BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.
There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.
I agree with you to some extent but I believe that bitcoin was not like this in the past. We could see that it started from notting and become something and that is the major reason why people have hope in it. I think bitcoin is going to grow because of what happened in the past. But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.
Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?
In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,
Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,
How in the hell is it coming back??
Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??
From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,
Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...
BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.
There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.
December 04, 2018, 07:13:58 AM
OP dont know how marketcaps works.
A marketcap is not made of actual money, but from speculation. The previous buyers didnt put more money into it, only the new ones are doing it, so when you look at the marketcap, the value do not represent the initial value that was put there, only the apparent value.
A injection of 800 billion dollars would put bitcoin on par with gold marketcap, which is 7 trillion. Perhaps it would go even higher than that.
Just imagine a order of 800 billion dollars eating the sell book. Imagine how many thousands of orders would be fulfilled until these 800 billion are spend.
A marketcap is not made of actual money, but from speculation. The previous buyers didnt put more money into it, only the new ones are doing it, so when you look at the marketcap, the value do not represent the initial value that was put there, only the apparent value.
A injection of 800 billion dollars would put bitcoin on par with gold marketcap, which is 7 trillion. Perhaps it would go even higher than that.
Just imagine a order of 800 billion dollars eating the sell book. Imagine how many thousands of orders would be fulfilled until these 800 billion are spend.
December 04, 2018, 07:03:03 AM
Why do you not just leave if you have nothing positive to say?
I have no particular beef with negativity. Constant positivity is irritating as hell.
What I can't be abiding is overt stupidity and almost ALL posters like this are stupid as fuck, or rather they know perfectly well that approximately 0.5 seconds of pontification would unravel their 'argument'.
I agree, both constant negativity and constant positivity are not needed and not helpful in any way. If OP was sometimes negative and actually wanted to engage in sensible discussion I wouldn't say what I said. But everything he posts is negative crap that as you said can be unraveled in a matter of seconds.
December 03, 2018, 03:21:19 PM
wow, reading the OPs statement was a minute of my life I'll never get back. I also love the fudging of numbers like counting the entire market value as the bitcoin only value a year ago and then only doing the bitcoin value now to make it seem like it was a much larger drop.
The "Why tell ppl lies?" of the title is all that needs to be said about this thread. Ironic.
The "Why tell ppl lies?" of the title is all that needs to be said about this thread. Ironic.
December 03, 2018, 02:15:04 PM
Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.
But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.
Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?
In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,
Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,
How in the hell is it coming back??
Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??
From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,
Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...
BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.
There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.
We still hae lot of money from the people so we need that people to get involved into the bitcoin purchase for the prices to be recovering but again it is not going to happen tomorrow or next day,it is going to be a long journey.But still we have some people called whales who can bring large amount of capital into this market any time. But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.
Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?
In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,
Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,
How in the hell is it coming back??
Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??
From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,
Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...
BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.
There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.
December 03, 2018, 12:36:17 PM
This is the importance of institutional investors, they are waiting for an entry point largely recognised as the bakkt which is being implemented next month. Anything is possible after that
December 03, 2018, 11:59:33 AM
This is insanity. I suspect this "btc-room101" guy is once again kwukduck or any other alt that is obsessed with calling bear markets.
As far as QE "not coming back", this is nonsense. Suspension of QE is only temporary. Debt is too much for it to stop, no president will want to face what it would take to reduce debt thus no more QE.
In Europe many countries will stop getting EU helicopter money soon and this will lead to many tensions, which will lead to them to enter in panic forcing more rounds of QE if they want to keep the thing going. It's a point of no return. Same for US.
Manipulation of BTC valuation against fiat is only temporary, it cannot be suppressed forever. BTC features are still desired, fundamentals never changed.
As far as QE "not coming back", this is nonsense. Suspension of QE is only temporary. Debt is too much for it to stop, no president will want to face what it would take to reduce debt thus no more QE.
In Europe many countries will stop getting EU helicopter money soon and this will lead to many tensions, which will lead to them to enter in panic forcing more rounds of QE if they want to keep the thing going. It's a point of no return. Same for US.
Manipulation of BTC valuation against fiat is only temporary, it cannot be suppressed forever. BTC features are still desired, fundamentals never changed.
December 03, 2018, 11:04:32 AM
That is only theoretically,many people still believe in Bitcoin and the price already ever go that high so it can happen again, with mass adoption the price will go back and maybe pass the highest price, it's not difficult to achieve those numbers if there are big companies or investors want to invest
December 03, 2018, 09:02:55 AM
Why do you not just leave if you have nothing positive to say?
I have no particular beef with negativity. Constant positivity is irritating as hell.
What I can't be abiding is overt stupidity and almost ALL posters like this are stupid as fuck, or rather they know perfectly well that approximately 0.5 seconds of pontification would unravel their 'argument'.
December 03, 2018, 08:58:18 AM
Ok, lets do the math, today bitcoin is $68 BIlllion USA capitalization, yep that is a lot of money.
But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.
Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?
In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,
Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,
How in the hell is it coming back??
Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??
From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,
Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...
BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.
There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.
But in 2017 the crypt capitalization was north of $800 BUILLION USA, so where did 95% of the wealth go? Did it just 'evaporate'.
Now the morons who pump&dump btc on this site are saying, ... its coming back, but how?
In 2017 they pumped&dumped btc on CHINA, USA, Europe, africa, korea, singapore, aussie, ... everywhere on earth people used their credit-cards who had no money, to BUY BTC,
Now these people have lost all their money, they still OWE on this debt,
How in the hell is it coming back??
Who in the hell is going to bring a NEW $800 BILLION USD back to the btc table??
From 2009 to 2014, ok btc bounced $1 to $400, that's fine, total capitilization was in the millions, and that was easy to replace, but now $800 billion USD is more than the GDP of most countrys,
Also the FED-RES is no longer doing QE, a lot of the money that made its way to BTC was that post 2008, the FED printed $4 Trillion USD and dumped it on the world, so a lot of that money, trickled to BTC, ...
BUT now the FED has quit QE, its no coming back.
There is NO way in hell, its infinitely impossible for bitcoin to go back to even $5k, in all probability it might stop at $1k, but its most likely to just keep drifting back to $400.
$800bn never came in to the crypto market, it probably wasn't even 1% of that number. Similaly $750bn has not left the market. If you understood how marketcap worked then you would understand that. I see you constantly spreading negativity of late here, do you have some vendetta against bitcoin? Why do you not just leave if you have nothing positive to say?
December 03, 2018, 06:43:32 AM
Marketcap is the current BEST price multiplied by the amount of coins.
This is not the amount of money invested in Bitcoin!!!!!
This is a false metric.
Fictive example
Let's say 15M coins mined.
Let's say you owned 21000 coins @ 10k.
You sell them all at once in a market order.
The price of bitcoin plummets by $1k because you buy away a lot of sell orders and trigger peoples stop-losses.
Suddenly the marketcap goes from $150B to $135B.
Yes suddenly $15B marketcap evaporates. It's not like people sold $15B in Bitcoin.
This is not the amount of money invested in Bitcoin!!!!!
This is a false metric.
Fictive example
Let's say 15M coins mined.
Let's say you owned 21000 coins @ 10k.
You sell them all at once in a market order.
The price of bitcoin plummets by $1k because you buy away a lot of sell orders and trigger peoples stop-losses.
Suddenly the marketcap goes from $150B to $135B.
Yes suddenly $15B marketcap evaporates. It's not like people sold $15B in Bitcoin.
December 02, 2018, 07:10:24 PM
Fuck off with your market Cap metric. It is an illusion and falsely represents some bullshit value that is meaningless. BTW it was never at $800B.
It wouldn't necessarily require $350B to move the price to the 2017 high, either.
It wouldn't necessarily require $350B to move the price to the 2017 high, either.
December 02, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
I think I understand your way of thinking, but unfortunately it is wrong. The size of the market cap is related to the price, but only at a certain point. If more people decide to only hold BTC and do not sell them and do not even trade them, then the market cap needed to raise the price will decrease many times. In other words, a lot depends on the belief that Bitcoin will succeed. When the bear market is over, investors will start buying BTC again and trust will grow, then these proportions will change and you will need much less money to inflate the price to a very high level.
December 02, 2018, 04:30:01 PM
There shouldn't be any IQ requirement just maybe guidelines to use a spell checker like chrome has to communicate better. If the average IQ is 100, that means any product for the public has to be as simple as possible to use. Even educated people dont want to have to study something for more then a few seconds to understand how it operates and generally how to proceed. Your average doctor or whatever profession can easily get confused by operation on a computer compared to somebody with the benefit of usage every day and familiarity.
I dont see Bitcoin really making it big without stressing the ease of use as one of the important parts of its makeup. We cant be surprised the public bought in credit cards to use in acquiring crypto because the average citizen does not have much in way of savings to place in BTC, they have credit scoring and a job that finances that. Its typical of how a system can get warped by outside factors however it was ordered previously. Crypto doesnt react well to leverage because its already a system that has no leeway in its active supply where as other commodities expand their supply massively in response to demand
I dont see Bitcoin really making it big without stressing the ease of use as one of the important parts of its makeup. We cant be surprised the public bought in credit cards to use in acquiring crypto because the average citizen does not have much in way of savings to place in BTC, they have credit scoring and a job that finances that. Its typical of how a system can get warped by outside factors however it was ordered previously. Crypto doesnt react well to leverage because its already a system that has no leeway in its active supply where as other commodities expand their supply massively in response to demand
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