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Topic: Mathematician: Is Our Universe a Simulation? - page 2. (Read 1988 times)

legendary
Activity: 3976
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February 17, 2014, 09:43:10 AM
#10
Junk philosophy.  The amount of power a computer would need to calculate every single human thought and action in a simulation, let alone the trajectories and properties of every object and atom in the universe, is incomprehensible.

Maybe god has a really fast computer?

I think we can rule out god on this topic kluge and mike please carry on the discussion it very interesting.

yup. please continue the discussion please. Smiley
hero member
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February 17, 2014, 09:09:21 AM
#9


What is this? Why have you posted this does it add to the conversation?
member
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February 17, 2014, 08:27:25 AM
#8
global moderator
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February 17, 2014, 08:22:03 AM
#7
Junk philosophy.  The amount of power a computer would need to calculate every single human thought and action in a simulation, let alone the trajectories and properties of every object and atom in the universe, is incomprehensible.

Maybe god has a really fast computer?

I think we can rule out god on this topic kluge and mike please carry on the discussion it very interesting.

I think we should discuss the God's Computer Hypothesis. We can't rule it out.
hero member
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February 17, 2014, 08:12:32 AM
#6
Junk philosophy.  The amount of power a computer would need to calculate every single human thought and action in a simulation, let alone the trajectories and properties of every object and atom in the universe, is incomprehensible.

Maybe god has a really fast computer?

I think we can rule out god on this topic kluge and mike please carry on the discussion it very interesting.
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February 17, 2014, 07:58:38 AM
#5
Junk philosophy.  The amount of power a computer would need to calculate every single human thought and action in a simulation, let alone the trajectories and properties of every object and atom in the universe, is incomprehensible. 

Maybe god has a really fast computer?
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
February 17, 2014, 06:59:00 AM
#4
Otherwise, totally plausible, just like all theories on how we exist. It's kind of silly to write it off because it's non-beneficial. You may's well call the theory of universal heat death junk because it's non-beneficial to our will to survive, too.

That theory could be useful to us someday, if not already (first time I've ever heard of it frankly.)  The theory that we could exist within someone else's computer simulations we will never have control over and that the simulation could end any moment now once the owner of the simulation became bored is unprovable and as pointless as postulating the existence of a deity (these really aren't much different, if you can compare God to whoever can modify the simulation.)  There is nothing you can do with this theory except to cause someone to say "Hmmm, that's interesting," after which they continue doing things which matter, such as going for jogs, or enjoying time with friends.

There are two possibilities here: the simulation is real, in which case the only one benefiting is the owner of the simulation as they would otherwise have no reason to create a simulation at all, or the simulation is not real, in which case it doesn't matter.  This is why it's pointless for those existing within the simulation to ponder whether or not they're in a simulation: there is nothing to gain from that position, except a loss in will for falsely believing one's own life to be trivial.  There are no gold medals in life for "getting it right"; there's nothing to gain from being first to discovering life in this carnation is a simulation, unless one is very new at philosophy and have yet to discover any higher meanings in life, thereby falsely believing one's short-sighted and baseless theories to have any validity or worthiness of being published anywhere, which is why I pointed out it's junk.  We are faced with the conundrum of requiring proof of that which creates the simulation and, just as all theories of there being a higher order, we're left with a catch 22 where the only way to discover this is to ask the owner (God) to prove it, and they have a huge incentive not to if they wish to acquire accurate results, or to be outside of the simulation looking in, in which case people would still ask themselves, outside of the simulation, whether they were in a simulation, and if the people who owned that simulation were also in a simulation.

I don't write it off because it's non-beneficial--that is a quality.  I write it off because there is no condition to be false about this belief, and an impossible condition to be correct, thus leaving the theory in perpetual limbo.  Fortunately, science teaches us that we do not have to bother with the unprovable, and that it is the burden of he who puts forward to prove, not to be unproven.  People to this day still attempt to rationally and empirically prove the existence of God, and I say, good on them, but I worry they'll lay upon their death beds wondering if there was a better usage of their time.
donator
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February 17, 2014, 06:23:04 AM
#3
It's pretty easy to discount the cosmic ray bit. Unimaginable devastation would arise if the simulation were subject to uncontrolled, "random" errors. Entire solar systems could suddenly disappear because a cosmic ray affected the simulator.... or maybe error-correcting code simply erases our knowledge of their existence to compensate. What a clusterfuck it will be if the ECC fails. It'd be fun to see how we react to such an event.... clearly, whoever's running this experiment is terribly boring or they would've had been messing with us for a long time. Anyway - we have pretty solid knowledge on how to eliminate cosmic ray interference... civilizations so far advanced really shouldn't be having issues with it.

Otherwise, totally plausible, just like all theories on how we exist. It's kind of silly to write it off because it's non-beneficial. You may's well call the theory of universal heat death junk because it's non-beneficial to our will to survive, too.
legendary
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February 17, 2014, 05:22:32 AM
#2
Junk philosophy.  The amount of power a computer would need to calculate every single human thought and action in a simulation, let alone the trajectories and properties of every object and atom in the universe, is incomprehensible.  The only hope this theory has is in nihilism and solipsism, neither of which and of whom are of any use to the rest of society, nor are their ponderings, such as this one.

Technology mimics reality, not the other way around.  The universe came first, mathematics built around it second to help explain the universe.  That's why everything fits; if it didn't, it wouldn't be math.  If the rules of the universe were any different, math would also be different, and they of the alternate universe, too, would still ask such silly questions as to how their own invention worked so perfectly when it was designed specifically for the universe given.

These are the same people who think the pyramids around the world are built by aliens.
legendary
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Life, Love and Laughter...
February 17, 2014, 04:58:29 AM
#1
Quote
Mathematician: Is Our Universe a Simulation?

"Mathematician Edward Frenkel writes in the NYT that one fanciful possibility that explains why mathematics seems to permeate our universe is that we live in a computer simulation based on the laws of mathematics — not in what we commonly take to be the real world. According to this theory, some highly advanced computer programmer of the future has devised this simulation, and we are unknowingly part of it. Thus when we discover a mathematical truth, we are simply discovering aspects of the code that the programmer used. This may strike you as very unlikely writes Frenkel but physicists have been creating their own computer simulations of the forces of nature for years — on a tiny scale, the size of an atomic nucleus. They use a three-dimensional grid to model a little chunk of the universe; then they run the program to see what happens. 'Oxford philosopher Nick Bostrom has argued that we are more likely to be in such a simulation than not,' writes Frenkel. 'If such simulations are possible in theory, he reasons, then eventually humans will create them — presumably many of them. If this is so, in time there will be many more simulated worlds than nonsimulated ones. Statistically speaking, therefore, we are more likely to be living in a simulated world than the real one.' The question now becomes is there any way to empirically test this hypothesis and the answer surprisingly is yes. In a recent paper, 'Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation,' the physicists Silas R. Beane, Zohreh Davoudi and Martin J. Savage outline a possible method for detecting that our world is actually a computer simulation (PDF). Savage and his colleagues assume that any future simulators would use some of the same techniques current scientists use to run simulations, with the same constraints. The future simulators, Savage indicated, would map their universe on a mathematical lattice or grid, consisting of points and lines. But computer simulations generate slight but distinctive anomalies — certain kinds of asymmetries and they suggest that a closer look at cosmic rays may reveal similar asymmetries. If so, this would indicate that we might — just might — ourselves be in someone else's computer simulation."


http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/02/16/197236/mathematician-is-our-universe-a-simulation

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