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Topic: Matthew is renigging on his bet. He doesn't recognize Pirate's debt to Goat. - page 2. (Read 3339 times)

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I heart thebaron
.......a meth head sleazeball who has yet to do anything meaningful in life.

I take offense to that. METH IS AWESOME....and some of us are just a bit 'behind schedule' in life Wink
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1003
You'd have to be either naive or just out to make a point to get in a bet with a piece of shit like Matthew. The guy is a meth head sleazeball who has yet to do anything meaningful in life.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
daytrader/superhero
I thought matthew had already lost his bet...

Quote from: Hexadecibel

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% without agreement to investors, -that- is fraud and a failure to pay back. I would obviously lose the bet.
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% but the investors agreed to it, -that- is the agreement and therefor he has paid it back. I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and pays back 100%, I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and does not pay anything anything back, I would lose the bet.

but then:

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
Post in this thread how much you're committing and I will double that amount you commit (maximum of 10,000BTC in bets allowed in this thread total) if Pirate does not pay out in 3 weeks as he described in his thread.

And pirate's thread:

Quote from: Pirateat40
When will I get my coins?
Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred.  I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent.

By this criteria Matthew has lost the bet. Pirate has admitted default and interest is no longer accruing which is in breach of the terms. QED.

Under the terms of the bet, pirate has until 9 September to pay the investors 100% of what they are owed or an alternative amount agreed to by the investors.  However certain it might seem that pirate will do neither, the date was set in the original bet and there's no reason to require Matthew to pay out before that time. 

When I made my bet, I put the specific caveat in my bet that I win if pirate doesn't pay out 100% (regardless of any agreement by pirate). He agreed to those terms when he accepted the bet, so he is not weasling out that easy.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
I thought matthew had already lost his bet...

Quote from: Hexadecibel

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% without agreement to investors, -that- is fraud and a failure to pay back. I would obviously lose the bet.
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% but the investors agreed to it, -that- is the agreement and therefor he has paid it back. I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and pays back 100%, I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and does not pay anything anything back, I would lose the bet.

but then:

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
Post in this thread how much you're committing and I will double that amount you commit (maximum of 10,000BTC in bets allowed in this thread total) if Pirate does not pay out in 3 weeks as he described in his thread.

And pirate's thread:

Quote from: Pirateat40
When will I get my coins?
Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred.  I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent.

By this criteria Matthew has lost the bet. Pirate has admitted default and interest is no longer accruing which is in breach of the terms. QED.

Under the terms of the bet, pirate has until 9 September to pay the investors 100% of what they are owed or an alternative amount agreed to by the investors.  However certain it might seem that pirate will do neither, the date was set in the original bet and there's no reason to require Matthew to pay out before that time. 

I concur, it does look like he lost and there's really no way to win but might as well stick to the deadline.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
I thought matthew had already lost his bet...

Quote from: Hexadecibel

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% without agreement to investors, -that- is fraud and a failure to pay back. I would obviously lose the bet.
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% but the investors agreed to it, -that- is the agreement and therefor he has paid it back. I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and pays back 100%, I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and does not pay anything anything back, I would lose the bet.

but then:

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
Post in this thread how much you're committing and I will double that amount you commit (maximum of 10,000BTC in bets allowed in this thread total) if Pirate does not pay out in 3 weeks as he described in his thread.

And pirate's thread:

Quote from: Pirateat40
When will I get my coins?
Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred.  I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent.

By this criteria Matthew has lost the bet. Pirate has admitted default and interest is no longer accruing which is in breach of the terms. QED.

Under the terms of the bet, pirate has until 9 September to pay the investors 100% of what they are owed or an alternative amount agreed to by the investors.  However certain it might seem that pirate will do neither, the date was set in the original bet and there's no reason to require Matthew to pay out before that time. 
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
I thought matthew had already lost his bet...

Quote from: Hexadecibel

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% without agreement to investors, -that- is fraud and a failure to pay back. I would obviously lose the bet.
If he owes 100% and only pays back 90% but the investors agreed to it, -that- is the agreement and therefor he has paid it back. I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and pays back 100%, I would win the bet.
If he owes 100% and does not pay anything anything back, I would lose the bet.

but then:

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
Post in this thread how much you're committing and I will double that amount you commit (maximum of 10,000BTC in bets allowed in this thread total) if Pirate does not pay out in 3 weeks as he described in his thread.

And pirate's thread:

Quote from: Pirateat40
When will I get my coins?
Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred.  I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent.

By this criteria Matthew has lost the bet. Pirate has admitted default and interest is no longer accruing which is in breach of the terms. QED.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
No fucking way would i do that.

Pleased to hear it.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.

To some extent, I think the question revolves around who would have standing to sue pirate - the investors or the PPT operators.  Pirate's not obliged to pay anyone who has no legal standing to collect the debts owed or accept settlements on their behalf and it's not clear that the agreements made between the investors and the pass-throughs give their operators that authority.  It's definitely not clear that the PPT operators would have a claim that is provable in bankruptcy if pirate goes through a legal insolvency process (which seems unlikely if his business model involved illegal activity as so many suspect).

I definitely want to hear what transpires at the next supersekrit IRC meeting, especially as GPUMax payments have reportedly been flaky lately.

Just out of interest.  Are any of the PPT operators going to agree to a settlement on undisclosed terms if that's what pirate demands?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.


Fuck it this is all silliness and FUD... I highly suspect pirate is just fucking around and playing games...  

Ditto.

You better do good on your bet, you fucker. I will not pay if you pull this shit.

Atlas? Are you threatened?

I am not your fucktarded buddy. Take a look at your bet thread and take a guess.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.


Fuck it this is all silliness and FUD... I highly suspect pirate is just fucking around and playing games...  

Ditto.

You better do good on your bet, you fucker. I will not pay if you pull this shit.

Atlas? Are you threatened?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.


Fuck it this is all silliness and FUD... I highly suspect pirate is just fucking around and playing games...  

Ditto.

You better do good on your bet, you fucker. I will not pay if you pull this shit.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Portland Bitcoin Group Organizer
I don't know guys, it sounds dubious. Maybe its time to let some attorneys take a look and put in their 200,000 cents
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.


Fuck it this is all silliness and FUD... I highly suspect pirate is just fucking around and playing games...  

Ditto.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.
That's not mentioned in his agreement with Pirate when he setup the account.

The liability is not implied.

Ask Goat if he told Pirate what he was doing with HIS account. The agreement does not give Pirate a free-for-all.

No, goat actually created the liability when he started doing the PPT.

There is no common law on the books that allows you to create liability for other people by using their products or otherwise.
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.
That's not mentioned in his agreement with Pirate when he setup the account.

The liability is not implied.

Ask Goat if he told Pirate what he was doing with HIS account. The agreement does not give Pirate a free-for-all.

No, goat actually created the liability when he started doing the PPT.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.
That's not mentioned in his agreement with Pirate when he setup the account.

The liability is not implied.

Ask Goat if he told Pirate what he was doing with HIS account. The agreement does not give Pirate a free-for-all.
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.

Its basically 3rd party beneficiary.  The bond never limited this liability.  The whole reason goat setup the bond was so others could use it as a PPT.  It was setup to benefit someone else.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Pirate owes the investors.  If he pays the investors of the PPTs whose operators do give him the information he asked for, then who do you hold responsible for him not paying the rest?

Pirate's debt is to Goat and Goat only.

This. Investors->PPT->Pirate.

Pirate's obligation is completed when he pays the PPT operators. The operators are obligated to honor their contracts. If you have a pass through account, deal with your operator, not with Pirate. Pirate doesn't have your account, he has one for the operator of the pass through.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
imsaguy, please explain.
This. Pirate's agreement with Goat only includes themselves. Nobody else.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Portland Bitcoin Group Organizer
imsaguy, please explain.
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