MAX KEISER please please please CORRECT your mistake re: confiscation

manfred

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Energy is Wealth

Quote from: matonis on April 25, 2013, 04:18:45 AM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 17, 2013, 04:03:23 PM

They can't be confiscated. Unless they figure out the code to my brain wallet...

Mind-reading devices aren't a thing yet, are they?

Technically, it's true that brainwallet assets are immune to confiscation,
but if you're sitting in jail for contempt, where's the victory?

Cant be 100% sure if this is true. What can be done right now or in years to come with Hypnosis is open to discussion. Legally is not a problem u dont remember a thing.

rupy

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That someone is the one you send the bitcoins to.

lettucebee

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Quote from: rupy on April 25, 2013, 04:40:06 AM

They have to proove you own coins and if you do it right they can't. Again: nobody can proove you have bitcoins until you spend them, that's also why it's really really stupid to steal bitcoins, since you will get caught when you spend them!

So unless they change the legal system to "guilty until proven innocent" this can't happen.

How can someone prove you have coins when you spend them?

rupy

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They have to proove you own coins and if you do it right they can't. Again: nobody can proove you have bitcoins until you spend them, that's also why it's really really stupid to steal bitcoins, since you will get caught when you spend them!

So unless they change the legal system to "guilty until proven innocent" this can't happen.

farfiman

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Quote from: matonis on April 25, 2013, 04:18:45 AM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 17, 2013, 04:03:23 PM

They can't be confiscated. Unless they figure out the code to my brain wallet...

Mind-reading devices aren't a thing yet, are they?

Technically, it's true that brainwallet assets are immune to confiscation,
but if you're sitting in jail for contempt, where's the victory?

At least the coins will still be there when you are out Wink

matonis

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Quote from: Mike Christ on April 17, 2013, 04:03:23 PM

They can't be confiscated. Unless they figure out the code to my brain wallet...

Mind-reading devices aren't a thing yet, are they?

Technically, it's true that brainwallet assets are immune to confiscation,
but if you're sitting in jail for contempt, where's the victory?

rupy

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It's impossible to confiscate bitcoins if the private key remains secret.

Of course you can make bitcoin illegal, but that would only make it stronger.

The only way to pause bitcoin is to remove the whole internet.

About gold confiscation, I believe that the children of those who did not return the gold are today really REALLY rich.

kgo

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Quote from: grondilu on April 18, 2013, 08:32:23 PM

Quote from: mwag on April 17, 2013, 08:14:13 PM

True crypt hidden volume.

What bitcoins?

Not just that.

Encryption + stenography + not telling anyone you own bitcoins =
safe from confiscation

That's fine if you never want to spend the coins. But if some confiscation went into effect you're now forced to do all your dealings on the black market even if your coins aren't actually confiscated. Given that, I think if it went down like the gold confiscation, where the government actually gave you fair market value and sent the bitcoins to the Fed, many people would take the deal.

(A)social

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Quote from: Mike Christ on April 17, 2013, 04:22:08 PM

Makes you wonder who would give up their BTC if the government demanded they be confiscated. Grin

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: grondilu on April 17, 2013, 02:00:35 PM

Now sure, you can put the guy in jail until he gives his password away.

Free life-long food and accomodation? Sign me in! And if they put some booze, blow, bitches and parties in it I could even pay some Satoshis for that.
And password of what? One of the dozen of my empty wallets? Maybe if they torture me nicely I could give them one of those.

Luno

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When Satoshi returns to earth from the heavens, his first appearance will be before Max with a jar of Ritalin.

Timo Y

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bitcoin - the aerogel of money

Quote from: grondilu on April 17, 2013, 02:00:35 PM

Now sure, you can put the guy in jail until he gives his password away.

The UK government is already doing this:

In the UK you will go to jail for astronomical noise.

grondilu

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Quote from: mwag on April 17, 2013, 08:14:13 PM

True crypt hidden volume.

What bitcoins?

Not just that.

Encryption + stenography + not telling anyone you own bitcoins =
safe from confiscation

StarfishPrime

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Quote from: xenon481 on April 18, 2013, 12:13:21 AM

Bitcoins absolutely can be confiscated by a government the same way that Cyprus confiscated Euros.

The Euros were in the bank and Cyprus forced the bank to hand over the Euros which it controlled.

If you have Bitcoins in a "bank" (like MtGox or any service which actually holds the private keys themselves), then the government can force the "bank" to hand over the Bitcoins that are rightly owned by depositors.

Saying Bitcoins can't be confiscated is the equivalent of saying that USD/Euro/etc can't be confiscated when it is buried in a jar in a location that only you know about.

Exactly. Very important distinction.

Any bitcoins held in an online account with Mt. Gox, Coinbase, Tradehill, etc. are never more than a court order away from confiscation (or being frozen). No different than a bank account, paypal balance, etc. - A much different scenario than having private keys properly secured offline.

xenon481

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Bitcoins absolutely can be confiscated by a government the same way that Cyprus confiscated Euros.

The Euros were in the bank and Cyprus forced the bank to hand over the Euros which it controlled.

If you have Bitcoins in a "bank" (like MtGox or any service which actually holds the private keys themselves), then the government can force the "bank" to hand over the Bitcoins that are rightly owned by depositors.

Saying Bitcoins can't be confiscated is the equivalent of saying that USD/Euro/etc can't be confiscated when it is buried in a jar in a location that only you know about.

mwag

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True crypt hidden volume.

What bitcoins?

Mike Christ

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Makes you wonder who would give up their BTC if the government demanded they be confiscated. Grin

I for one wouldn't. But as far as you guys know, I have no Bitcoin. I'm just here for the crazy philosophical threads.

kgo

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Quote from: hashman on April 17, 2013, 02:57:49 PM

I'm not sure that's accurate. Nothing is effortless. Collecting gold was probably not such a walk in the park.

Actually it was. They didn't go door to door and search houses for gold.

They said, "Go turn in all your gold for paper money by this day, or you're breaking the law." And people did it. There's no reason people couldn't have buried their gold in the back yard and traded it on the black market if they wanted to. But just about everyone decided holding gold wasn't worth the risk.

Technically Max is wrong. The government could declare that private ownership of bitcoins are illegal. They could even offer to buy them from you and give you amnesty up to a given date so you're not deprived of property.

But effectively it's much more difficult to bitcoins than gold. There was an article floating around a few weeks ago about someone who got busted smuggling a million dollars in gold across a border. It would be trivial smuggle a million dollars in bitcoins out of the country. You could just encrypt your wallet, email it to yourself, and then there's nothing for customs to seize as you flee the country to start life over in Sealand.

The spirit of what he said is accurate even if it's not 100% academically rigorous.

Mike Christ

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They can't be confiscated. Unless they figure out the code to my brain wallet...

Mind-reading devices aren't a thing yet, are they?

TheDarKnight

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It is not innaccurate, there is no way to legally confiscate BTCs - you can also make it incredibly hard for them to find a way to take them by putting them in cloud storage for example...

Topic: MAX KEISER please please please CORRECT your mistake re: confiscation (Read 3186 times)