Mempool is now up to 25.5 MB with 22,200 transactions waiting. - page 6.

Blind Legs Parker

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Quote from: Lauda on March 01, 2016, 05:03:17 AM

Seems like there is another bug on Blockchain.info when it comes to the amount of unprocessed fees. They're becoming unreliable.

Quote from: btc_enigma on March 01, 2016, 01:21:14 AM

Seems like normal traffic to me.

If you take a look at the fees most of these unconfirmed transactions include a very low fee. Something is definitely not right here:

Whoever is trying to sell you the story of this being natural and there being urgency to upgrade is trying to manipulate you. This mysterious spike is not natural.

Quote

Alex Petrov
Answer: Content of Block 400590,
High-fee spam attack/flooding of BTC, << 133 satoshi / byte
http://i.imgur.com/XFxLy3s.png

Case closed.

No it's definitely not natural. Now I'm torn between the fact that I know that if the situation remains like this for a certain length of time, the decision takers above will finally have the pressure I've hoped for and will probably reach a consensus regarding the block size, and this that I'd like the metwork to be fluid because no one likes to wait for days before their transactions get confirmed.

chopstick

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Quote

Once again you can thank all the people who are behind Classic and BU for this event.

How is it their fault that tx volume is rising, exactly?

You're grasping at straws here.

chopstick

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Quote from: sturle on March 01, 2016, 11:18:10 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on March 01, 2016, 11:08:14 AM

Well, it's time to increase block size or ask every merchants or services to accept zero confirmation (as long as it has good fees), so there won't be any problem Grin

Increasing the block size won't do anything but make the problem worse.

A truly hilariously false statement. 2 MB would solve the problem immediately, effectively doubling the capacity of the network.

Merchants and users are abandoning bitcoin out of frustration as we speak.

sturle

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https://bitmynt.no

Quote from: ABCbits on March 01, 2016, 11:08:14 AM

Well, it's time to increase block size or ask every merchants or services to accept zero confirmation (as long as it has good fees), so there won't be any problem Grin

Increasing the block size won't do anything but make the problem worse.

Segwit enables sidechains, which can have as large blocks as you want, and Lightning, which will circumvent the problem until the spammer(s) understand it is a waste of money. Lightning will actually solve the zero confirmation problem as well. But we will have to wait until next month for Segwit to be released, and probably a month or two more until it has been deployed by minimum 95% of the hashrate.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: pedrog on March 01, 2016, 11:13:16 AM

There's no such thing as "spam transactions"

So per your definition the "stress tests" in the past were not 'spam' but rather legit transactions? Roll Eyes

Quote from: ABCbits on March 01, 2016, 11:08:14 AM

Once again, bitcoiner are frustrated with spam transaction on bitcoin network.

Once again you can thank all the people who are behind Classic and BU for this event.

Quote from: sturle on March 01, 2016, 10:41:25 AM

What amazes me is the fact that some people claim in public that a larger blocksize will solve the spam problem. Obviously primary school isn't compulsory everywhere in the world. Sad

You can easily identify a few which didn't go there by reading this thread.

ABCbits

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Well, it's time to increase block size or ask every merchants or services to accept zero confirmation (as long as it has good fees), so there won't be any problem Grin

Once again, bitcoiner are frustrated with spam transaction on bitcoin network.

pedrog

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Activity: 2786

Merit: 1031

There's no such thing as "spam transactions", spam is an unsolicited message, well, someone can send me unsolicited transactions, I don't mind though.

People make transactions for whatever reason they want, network can't handle current transaction rate for weeks now, development priority should be scaling.

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

including "spam" in blocks, forces "spammers" to pay fees until they run out of funds. This also allows miners to clear the memory pool to avoid confirmation delays. At greater scale this would work very well, since it would make it very expensive to overload the network in this way.

It is mostly impossible to differentiate between "spam" and what most people would consider "legitimate" transactions.

ShrykeZ

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Nothing more than a large scale spam attack on the network.

7788bitcoin

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This is getting a bit too far... My Coinbase transactions are still pending, which went with standard fee.

Any idea who is behind the stress test??

AliceWonderMiscreations

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Quote from: pedrog on March 01, 2016, 10:32:09 AM

Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on March 01, 2016, 10:15:36 AM

Certainly viable for a restaurant.

The only type of double spend attack that doesn't involve mining a block and risking loss of the mining reward is the race attack.

No one is going to risk a block reward to eat in a restaurant.

Detecting transactions by using a node that does not accepting incoming connections and then only accepting transactions with the right Tx is very safe for a restaurant and easy to implement.

You are aware that credit cards when used at restaurants often don't confirm for 24 hours and often days later, the payment processor says it was stolen and the restaurant doesn't get jack shit.

Bitcoin with 0 TX is safer than credit cards - as long as the easy to implement precaution is taken.

You don't seem to understand one thing, people don't have to use bitcoin, it's completely irrelevant, as the guy said, very few people ever paid with bitcoin, he doesn't need it!

And he wouldn't need it with 2 MB blocks and he wouldn't need it with 1 TB blocks and neither of those would solve the problem described.

The problem described is solved by only accepting payments when the TX reaches them on a node that does not accept incoming connections and verifying the TX fee is valid.

sturle

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https://bitmynt.no

Quote from: chopstick on March 01, 2016, 10:03:22 AM

Not viable for a fucking restaurant, when it could take 24+ hours to confirm now, or the transaction could even be doublespended thanks to RBF.

RBF is actually perfect for a situation like this. As a merchant accepting bitcoin, I would just ask the customer to replace the transaction with one paying a decent fee. I have been waiting for a feature like RBF for a long time. Unfortunately it is hard to send RBF transactions yet, but a customer capable of sending one can certainly replace it as well. At least Bitcoin tells me if a transaction can be replaced.

Quote from: chopstick on March 01, 2016, 10:03:22 AM

Most wallets are still configured to use a "normal" fee and sorry but most customers aren't going to know to include a higher fee, and quite honestly, this is simply not a problem they should have to deal with. No restaurant wants to have to deal with "unconfirmed" payments. That's just the reality of the situation. It's not worth it for them to deal with bitcoin in this state.

Fortunately the spammer is using a less than normal fee, so normal fee paying transactions aren't affected. The only problem beeing wallets which will always apply a fixed fee with no regard to transaction size.

What amazes me is the fact that some people claim in public that a larger blocksize will solve the spam problem. Obviously primary school isn't compulsory everywhere in the world. Sad

Lauda

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Activity: 2674

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Terminated.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on March 01, 2016, 10:29:06 AM

I am involved in running a small retail business as well.

Irrelevant information?

Quote from: VeritasSapere on March 01, 2016, 10:29:06 AM

Full blocks does break the ability to accept zero confirmation transactions which in effect means that we can not accept Bitcoin anymore. Since waiting for confirmation is not practical.

It doesn't break anything and accepting such transactions is still viable.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on March 01, 2016, 10:29:06 AM

I suppose the vision of Core did include that Bitcoin should not be a currency, diverging from the original vision of Satoshi.

No. That's not what Core is doing.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on March 01, 2016, 10:29:06 AM

We are starting to see this flight away from Bitcoin now. It is not to late to still turn this around, everyone that does want Bitcoin to be a currency and scale directly should support Bitcoin Classic or Bitcoin Unlimited now.

Well look behind yourself in the mirror and thank the people who you are supporting for this. This is an on-going attack, face the facts.

Quote from: chopstick on March 01, 2016, 09:57:34 AM

More merchants dropping bitcoin like a hot potato.

Thank those behind the attack.

pedrog

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Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on March 01, 2016, 10:15:36 AM

Certainly viable for a restaurant.

The only type of double spend attack that doesn't involve mining a block and risking loss of the mining reward is the race attack.

No one is going to risk a block reward to eat in a restaurant.

Detecting transactions by using a node that does not accepting incoming connections and then only accepting transactions with the right Tx is very safe for a restaurant and easy to implement.

You are aware that credit cards when used at restaurants often don't confirm for 24 hours and often days later, the payment processor says it was stolen and the restaurant doesn't get jack shit.

Bitcoin with 0 TX is safer than credit cards - as long as the easy to implement precaution is taken.

You don't seem to understand one thing, people don't have to use bitcoin, it's completely irrelevant, as the guy said, very few people ever paid with bitcoin, he doesn't need it!

All this "we don't need to scale bitcoin" but we need to implement this useless features nobody asked for is doing damage, big damage, because what we need is adoption and scaling.

And what the fuck are you talking about implementing stuff and credit cards only 'confirm' after 24 hours, where do you get this kind of stuff? Have you ever worked with these services and the real people who use it in their business?

They don't implement stuff, they pay people to implement stuff! If I have to say to a client it will cost 100 more euros to implement some shitty, not reliable, payment system nobody will use, plus a few hours explaining staff, well, you know what the answer is...

Quote from: VeritasSapere on March 01, 2016, 10:29:06 AM

I am involved in running a small retail business as well. Full blocks does break the ability to accept zero confirmation transactions which in effect means that we can not accept Bitcoin anymore. Since waiting for confirmation is not practical. I suppose the vision of Core did include that Bitcoin should not be a currency, diverging from the original vision of Satoshi. We are starting to see this flight away from Bitcoin now. It is not to late to still turn this around, everyone that does want Bitcoin to be a currency and scale directly should support Bitcoin Classic or Bitcoin Unlimited now.

Yes, this will destroy some of the major bitcoin companies like Bitpay and Coinbase, the biggest damage will be to people's trust and VCs pocket.

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

I am involved in running a small retail business as well. Full blocks does break the ability to accept zero confirmation transactions which in effect means that we can not accept Bitcoin anymore. Since waiting for confirmation is not practical. I suppose the vision of Core did include that Bitcoin should not be a currency, diverging from the original vision of Satoshi. We are starting to see this flight away from Bitcoin now. It is not to late to still turn this around, everyone that does want Bitcoin to be a currency and scale directly should support Bitcoin Classic or Bitcoin Unlimited now.

AliceWonderMiscreations

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 107

Quote from: chopstick on March 01, 2016, 10:03:22 AM

Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on March 01, 2016, 10:01:20 AM

Quote from: chopstick on March 01, 2016, 09:57:34 AM

More merchants dropping bitcoin like a hot potato.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/48g5a4/before_and_after_bitcoin_no_longer_accepted_at/

"Training staff to understand dynamic fees, RBF etc. is not viable. To avoid the risk of accepting payment that never confirms we will not be accepting Bitcoin for the foreseeable future."

They don't have to train staff. They should only accept payment when the transaction is relayed to a well connected node with a reasonable TX fee.

That's code and isn't hard to do.

Not viable for a fucking restaurant, when it could take 24+ hours to confirm now, or the transaction could even be doublespended thanks to RBF. Most wallets are still configured to use a "normal" fee and sorry but most customers aren't going to know to include a higher fee, and quite honestly, this is simply not a problem they should have to deal with. No restaurant wants to have to deal with "unconfirmed" payments. That's just the reality of the situation. It's not worth it for them to deal with bitcoin in this state.

Certainly viable for a restaurant.

The only type of double spend attack that doesn't involve mining a block and risking loss of the mining reward is the race attack.

No one is going to risk a block reward to eat in a restaurant.

Detecting transactions by using a node that does not accepting incoming connections and then only accepting transactions with the right Tx is very safe for a restaurant and easy to implement.

You are aware that credit cards when used at restaurants often don't confirm for 24 hours and often days later, the payment processor says it was stolen and the restaurant doesn't get jack shit.

Bitcoin with 0 TX is safer than credit cards - as long as the easy to implement precaution is taken.

chopstick

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Activity: 992

Merit: 1000

Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on March 01, 2016, 10:01:20 AM

Quote from: chopstick on March 01, 2016, 09:57:34 AM

More merchants dropping bitcoin like a hot potato.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/48g5a4/before_and_after_bitcoin_no_longer_accepted_at/

"Training staff to understand dynamic fees, RBF etc. is not viable. To avoid the risk of accepting payment that never confirms we will not be accepting Bitcoin for the foreseeable future."

They don't have to train staff. They should only accept payment when the transaction is relayed to a well connected node with a reasonable TX fee.

That's code and isn't hard to do.

Not viable for a fucking restaurant, when it could take 24+ hours to confirm now, or the transaction could even be doublespended thanks to RBF. Most wallets are still configured to use a "normal" fee and sorry but most customers aren't going to know to include a higher fee, and quite honestly, this is simply not a problem they should have to deal with. No restaurant wants to have to deal with "unconfirmed" payments. That's just the reality of the situation. It's not worth it for them to deal with bitcoin in this state.

AliceWonderMiscreations

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 107

Quote from: chopstick on March 01, 2016, 09:57:34 AM

More merchants dropping bitcoin like a hot potato.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/48g5a4/before_and_after_bitcoin_no_longer_accepted_at/

"Training staff to understand dynamic fees, RBF etc. is not viable. To avoid the risk of accepting payment that never confirms we will not be accepting Bitcoin for the foreseeable future."

They don't have to train staff. They should only accept payment when the transaction is relayed to a well connected node with a reasonable TX fee.

That's code and isn't hard to do.

chopstick

legendary

Activity: 992

Merit: 1000

More merchants dropping bitcoin like a hot potato.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/48g5a4/before_and_after_bitcoin_no_longer_accepted_at/

"Training staff to understand dynamic fees, RBF etc. is not viable. To avoid the risk of accepting payment that never confirms we will not be accepting Bitcoin for the foreseeable future."

Lauda

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 2965

Terminated.

Seems like there is another bug on Blockchain.info when it comes to the amount of unprocessed fees. They're becoming unreliable.

Quote from: btc_enigma on March 01, 2016, 01:21:14 AM

Seems like normal traffic to me.

If you take a look at the fees most of these unconfirmed transactions include a very low fee. Something is definitely not right here:

Whoever is trying to sell you the story of this being natural and there being urgency to upgrade is trying to manipulate you. This mysterious spike is not natural.

Quote

Alex Petrov
Answer: Content of Block 400590,
High-fee spam attack/flooding of BTC, << 133 satoshi / byte
http://i.imgur.com/XFxLy3s.png

Case closed.

Topic: Mempool is now up to 25.5 MB with 22,200 transactions waiting. - page 6. (Read 7841 times)