Topic: Merit & new rank requirements - page 242. (Read 167717 times)

sMerits produced as by-products of Merits from exchanging (I can called that) merits between users, senders and receivers. Personally, it's hard to calculate exact sMerits produced or used monthly, right?

 

I think that the calculation would be something like about 50 merit sources spreading about 185 merits (9,250 merits monthly), to perhaps 100 different users - so 50 x 100 = 5,000-ish different users would receive those 9,250 new merits, which would in turn allow the 5,000-ish users to distribute a portion of their 9,250/2 = 4,625 smerits to more members - a rippling effect, not counting the already existing smerits that will be floating around from the initial distribution and carry over smerits from previous months... not an exact science because of course there will be some hoarding, but I think that Theymos has already put some systems in place to verify how many smerits are being used on a regular basis.

Granting sMerits based on rank would encourage account farming, so that's unlikely to be implemented.

There are ~50 merit sources, presumably with a wide range of criteria of what they consider "useful". Every month they will spread merits to at least 200 other users (likely many more).

In general, the new system is not bad.
But you need to write clear rules (criteria) based on what I can give the user "sMerit" without fear of getting negative (red) trust.
And also I have a small suggestion for improvement. You can do this for forum users, possibly starting with the rank of "Member" and above, so that "sMerit" is updated after changing periods. Those. After 14 days, a small amount of sMerit is added (2-5 sMerit depending on the rank). This proposal arose because all can have different criteria for the usefulness of the message. And what is interesting for participants of a lower rank, may be uninteresting for the participants of the Legends.

You don't need to tell us where this will lead because you are full of shit.

Look.  This system has only been in place for a bit more than 4 days, and you are already spouting off a lot of stupid-ass conspiracy theories based on flimsy evidence.

Sure, you are likely correct that in the end that there are some biases towards any members with smerits giving those smerits to other members that they already know, but that is not a complete loss on the forum, because the receipt of those smerits do generate more smerits (at a 50% rate), so yeah, sometimes it can take a large number of posts for a newbie to get known, and members may not want to give smerits based on one post, but instead after they see a pattern of good posts. 

These kinds of patterns and building of credibility take time, it is not merely a reflection of one or two posts, and the past few days, I have been attempting to send smerits, and sometimes i have given those smerits merely on a kind of whim, and other times, I hesitate to send, and watch for further posts from the member before sending smerits.  So in other words, it can take time to both get a sense of another member (and their quality or lack of) and there can be some reservation too, because almost all members (except for sources) have a limited supply of smerit in their bank and they also have to generate smerit before they are going to be able to give any smerits out to anyone.

In other words, members are still learning about this whole process, and there are likely a lot of quasi-active members who still have not even figured out what merit versus smerits are, and might not even have logged into their account in the past several days.  So, doesn't it seem to be preposterous to be calling the end of the good aspects of the bitcoin talk world as we know it, merely based on a system's change that is still quite early in its implementation and playing out?

I totally agree with Kavallo. This system will serve to reduce rank promotion or even turn it unfeasible. I can't imagine jr. members receiving merit points trough their posts, regardless that those who praised the rules get some, it's rare, but they get some.

So, something has to change in this system...

Does anyone know any more details regarding this?
Will some laws be amended?

Two more days have passed, which have proved that this was an anomaly... and at the same time a paradigmatic example of the new non written rule.
Go through the thread and look: Low ranked don't usually get merits, unless they praise the new rules. This is not a theory, these are the facts - you could even start to make a statistics counting how many people of which rank have got X many merits and by writing what. Low ranking people have no sMerits to give or just a few. Now only high ranking member can give sMerits and they usually give them to each others or to Juniors who praise the new rules. I am afraid that the new non written rule is that if you want to rank up you have to reflect the opinion of the high ranking. Time will tell, but you have a good vision you'll see that it is already telling exactly this now. I think I don't nee to tell you where this will lead to.

I think that there are a couple of points here that I could elaborate on, but I don't claim to know everything either, even if I have spent more hours on the forum.  

Regarding activity, I think that if you are averaging more than 14 posts per two weeks, then you will get all of the 14 activity points for each activity period even if you only post a couple of posts in the most recent activity period. However, when you start to go below a 14 posts per two weeks average, then you receive fewer activity points.  Something like that.   So I have mostly kept my average up above 14 per two weeks, and I think that there was only a few two week periods that I did not post anything, so I did not receive any activity points for those few two week periods.

Of course, according to OP, the amount of smerit you received was related to your current rank and the amount of activity that you had in the past year.  I believe that based on my being active for every period in the past year, I earned the maximum for my rank, which was 200 smerits.

Regarding rashness in implementing this system, it likely goes without saying that a guy like theymos doesn't achieve success in building/running such a large forum as this one without having some abilities for introspection and retrospection, so I doubt that this new merit system is built on rashness, arbitrariness or lack of weighing various possible pros and cons.

I was actually active for many more periods then my activity is shown I think but I simply didnt do a ratio of 1 post per day.

And I dont really understand why a higher post ratio makes you more likely to be able to spread merit to others but yeah nobody knew this would come around so I guess everyone missing a rank by some posts needs to go along with it.

Btw I am not moaning since I dont really need the Legendary status right now since I didnt even used a signature campaign for quite some time.
I was just curious about the initial thought why this merit system has been implemented like this.

Nobody will do such a big change without spending much time about the consequences and benefits therefore I think there has to be a reason for this decision.

I think I made useful threads before merit system to be introduced. Now I have to make useful threads again in order to gain merits. But I don't know whether I will be eligible for gaining merits. It pushed me away from getting up ranking to member from Jr. member.    And I don't know how to offer merits and who gives us merits
But I like the concept. now people will use this forum for useful threads instead bullshits.
I learn many things from  this forum. So I am thankful to it.

Hahahahaha...

I had not noticed that you were a member of the forum a year long than me, but your explanation makes sense, and yes, I see the date in your forum profile. 

So, yeah, there is nothing wrong with having disagreements with a system, yet you are correct that a whining approach is likely to get you no where quickly.  There are also ways to be innovative, such as the level up approach that you took.  Of course, not everyone is going to agree with it, and some people will even dislike you for it, but it still seems to be a vehicle to attempt for you to make some of your points to encourage positive posts, and those points/goals are not contrary to those of the forum (in fact they line up).

Also, the point has been made several times, that if you merely want to read posts, you don't necessarily need to rank up, but sometimes if you want to be "taken more seriously" in your posts, then rank does seem to have its benefits- especially in a place like this that has a decent number of disingenuous posters (otherwise known as trolls).
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bud I am hated by many and loved by many.. sod sitting on the fence, I just wanted to pay it forward, it just happened that plenty of other people liked what I was suggesting, so I have kept on making it rain on newbies and legendary's alike.

if I dont level up... no biggy, I mean this is the 1st sig campaign I have ever been in.. no odds if its my last.

There are many ways to have a proportional division.
for example on the site there is total time logged in:
or Date Registered:
can be included here Activity:
and combine different options ...

Hahahahaha...

I had not noticed that you were a member of the forum a year long than me, but your explanation makes sense, and yes, I see the date in your forum profile. 

So, yeah, there is nothing wrong with having disagreements with a system, yet you are correct that a whining approach is likely to get you no where quickly.  There are also ways to be innovative, such as the level up approach that you took.  Of course, not everyone is going to agree with it, and some people will even dislike you for it, but it still seems to be a vehicle to attempt for you to make some of your points to encourage positive posts, and those points/goals are not contrary to those of the forum (in fact they line up).

Also, the point has been made several times, that if you merely want to read posts, you don't necessarily need to rank up, but sometimes if you want to be "taken more seriously" in your posts, then rank does seem to have its benefits- especially in a place like this that has a decent number of disingenuous posters (otherwise known as trolls).

I think that pro-rata distribution based on activity rather than minimum distribution based on rank would have been a more fair distribution.  I don't think that Theymos was trying to be unfair, but I don't know how easy it would be to implement a pro-rata distribution to even out some of the seeming merit distribution imbalances.

i've been a member nearly a year longer than you, but I did take a hiatus from posting for 18 months after some losses to scams, (ASICMINER & LABCOIN) I am not moaning about it though, just see it as a challenge to earn the merits needed.

Some of these newbies haven't been through the rise and fall of bitcoin like some of us.. $250-$80 in a matter of hours, MTGOX going pop! SR going down... all these things don't matter to the newbies moaning as they feel entitled, like spoiled little children.

if you can type a coherent post, and be positive and helpful in the community then senior guys and sources will splash Merits.. its not rocket science..

This system is good enough in my opinion that this forum is maintained well quality. But what if giving merit to friends and friends will give a merit back on us? Is it permissible or is it an offense? and does give the merit on a thread of signature campaign it's right?

Well B4RF, you have been a forum member almost as long as me, so you are correct that your post count has caused you to not move up in ranks, and if you had been at least minimally active in ever two week activity period, you would have earned enough activity points to have become legendary a year ago (something like that). 

So, yeah, none of us knew this change was coming, but those of us who remained active benefited by this unexpected change based on activity level (which includes posting regularly).

But this approach may not stop the daily spam.

Also merit rating system can't stop really so much.

The spammer have a workaround for that solution just creating a couple of accounts and deliver the merit from them to few of their accounts increasing the rank of them.

I think only great content posts win.

Sometimes it takes a while to get known or noticed, especially difficult in a thread like this that has so many pages of posts in such a short period of time.  Sometimes your posts or questions do not get answered, and sometimes you can reiterate them, or go to another thread, and don't be so sensitive about it... sooner or later good things happen, as long as you continue to put forth positive energy, rather than getting drawn down into negative and pity me thinking.




Exhibit A, above.


Negative and pity me thinking.