Topic: [Merits again] Discuss the velocity of Bitcoin (Read 1067 times)

The market had been having less fluctuation and I think it is because the market is still on a downward trend that is why we are seeing less velocity in price. The Bitcoin network fee also had been falling and rising making us to spend more money for transactions. If the transaction fee can be more minimal compared to what it is now, we are going to see more frequent usemage compared to what we had been seeing. Since the last hike in network fee of Bitcoin, many investors and traders had halted the use of Bitcoin for business because they are spending more than they supposed because of the nature of the market.

This is a great subject matter, though am Coming across this for the first time. This technical means of analyzing bitcoins performance is great and help us know the stand of bitcoins in every country. Here in Africa, bitcoins is not yet become a currency people use for payment rather than as store of wealth and investment means. The use of bitcoins as a means of payment in Africa might take long base on the level of awareness and number of users. The velocity of bitcoins has been affected by several situations such as government related issues, electricity issues and many more

Based on the charts in the OP it looks like velocity is reduced as price increases so it's more of a hodl coin which makes sense. LN adoption (esp with Strike) might change this completely so it's good to also look at different charts.

Bytetree charts indicate that bitcoin velocity is currently around 300% over a 12 month period which means bitcoin moves 3 times per year. However this time last year it spiked to 1000%!

https://terminal.bytetree.com/bitcoin/charts

As we're in a bear market (hopefully end stages) it won't be a rosy picture, but when the SEC FUD blows over and retail comes back we will hopefully see more positive movement

Surely using bitcoin as currency is the primary factor to give to bitcoin a strong velocity.. what mean more price stability etc..

but there the bitcoin network capability of holding such numerous transactions is actually very far from making this possible. in reality its very discouraging!

This in first was due to egoistic attitudes of some actors at a point this would be legitimate to suspect these were in reality voluntary acts of empoisonning/sabotage ...
look at Bitcoin cash for example, it's capability of holding transactions... and for ridiculous fees - in addition that we can't say that that is making problem!




You're talking about legislations that made very complicated fiscal procedures to the users of crypto-currencies, right?

---

PS:  Excuse if my english is not very fluid.. It take me time to write in english, and when I am a little tired like right now I don't have at all the strength to remake the texte to clearer!  Thnx

You raised a really interesting and important topic. In fact, the velocity of bitcoin shows how successfully it performs the function of money, and the main problem is that the upper limit is imposed not only by the desire of people to actively use it, but also by the scalability of the network.

As for people's desire, JayJuanGee, of course, correctly noted earlier in the thread that people will want to get rid of less valuable money first, and will be more inclined to save bitcoins, but with an increase in a velocity, the amount of bad money will naturally decrease, and when you have only bitcoins, then you will have to spend them on everyday needs, despite the fact that this is good money. On the other hand, many will probably still receive fiat currencies in one way or another, which will encourage them to spend a fiat faster and accumulate bitcoins. And so far, judging by the chart from the first post, hoarding tendencies are taking over.

But the limitation from above, associated with the scalability of the network, has recently manifested itself in a problem with Ordinals. With 300-400 thousand transactions per day, the growth in the popularity of bitcoin as a means of payment will lead to the fact that only large transactions will be carried out with the help of bitcoin, and bitcoin velocity will stop growing at some stage. LN should help here, but how much this will help is difficult to predict.

Also, judging by the chart, an increase in the price of bitcoin eventually leads to a decrease in velocity. Apparently, this is due to the fact that the cost of each individual transaction increases, which makes small payments in bitcoin more expensive. Again, apparently, hopes for LN.

I think it's important that bitcoin is used to make payments, so I hope the velocity will pick up over time.

Thanks any way... Everybody is entitled to their opinion on how they think of other people.
And I'm not dragging the way I feel into any threads.


Velocity is the speed at which transaction take place and when it comes to the velocity of Bitcoin, it is calculated by dividing the 90 days evaluated by USD transaction  volume by the 90 days average USD market cap...


Too busy to attend to your corrections... Thanks but no Thanks

I did not review your post quality beyond just commenting on the post that you had made that had re-vived this thread from its prior inactive status.


Who cares how you feel?  Apparently you do, but it is largely irrelevant.  Are you talking about some subject matter in this thread or just coming to the thread to talk about how you feel about the topic?  That is a pretty uninteresting post to come to a thread and to start to discuss how you feel about the topic, while at the same time, not even really attempting to grapple with the topic beyond merely continuing to want to talk about how you feel about your feelings and how my response to your post further made you feel.


None of us is necessarily restricted to responding exactly how another member wants us to respond, and each of us has an ability to figure out the extent that we might believe that it is helpful or useful to frame the matter in a way that might have been different from what the earlier posting member had thought to be relevant.. including if I brought up the topic of merits because I thought that the topic of merits was relevant to the point that I wanted to make.. whether you appreciate that perspective or not.


Of course, there is a lot of discretion regarding whether to post and what to post and self-assessing regarding the extent to which you might be able to add value to the thread (or some post(s) within the thread) based on your experiences and/or perspectives.


Again.. these are discretionary matters that you are bringing up... and of course, you can choose the extent to which you participate and maybe weigh whether it is a good thing to participate (whether you are aiming to help yourself or to help some other member or to help some random reader, since a lot of these forum threads are mostly open to the public).


Sure longer standing forum members do seem to have more power in terms of their having had achieved a track record, but even longer standing members could get themselves into trouble if they try to act like they have power that they don't have.. and much of the time, I try to not flaunt rank and try to take members at their word, even if the member has not been around the forum for a while, yet sometimes it can be seen from the post that the newer member might sometimes be engaging in some kind of problematic behaviors which might justify using stronger language against the newer member or maybe just reporting the post.. and there are some forum members that will report the posts of new members rather than attempting to engage when the quality of the post might be questionable, or seeming to be of relatively low standards and/or even off topic.


Well hopefully you are learning.. but I can already see that you might incorporate feelings into the topic or your posts, and that could surely get you into trouble to get distracted in those kinds of ways.. but hey.. you do what you like and see how it works out for you... and we surely are getting further and further off topic from the topic of this thread, so maybe both of us will end up getting our posts deleted because we are seeming to deviate way too much.


Surely this post from Lida93.. is a great attempt to get us back on topic.

We can see that sometimes when governments are being hostile to bitcoin, then a lot of the bitcoin HODLers will pull their bitcoin off of exchanges, and surely that decreases the quantity of BTC that are available to circulate in the economy.

And some people claim that El Salvador's increasing friendliness to bitcoin might appear to increase the bitcoin that is circulating in the economy, yet their ongoing over-reliance (or adoption of bitcoin by pushing the lightning network) does not increase bitcoin's onchain usage enough.. and there are various potential problems with lightning network having ways to fractional reserve too.. especially having some custodial services that are part of the various ways that people are using their BTC in those more bitcoin-friendly jurisdictions.

Bitcoin's liquidity or the removal of coins from circulation is not exactly a static concept because we even have seemingly contradictory declarations out of China where they make aspects of bitcoin illegal in 2016 (freezing coins on exchanges), and then making aspects of bitcoin mining illegal in 2021.. and then recently letting off and seeming to want to promote bitcoin (at least in Hong Kong) in 2023.. so those kinds of changes in liquidity can affect velocity - to the extent that we are talking about affects upon onchain bitcoin and those new third parities might be holding their own keys or assuring that the have actual bitcoin to back up the claims that come from new entrants into the bitcoin market.


Actually that might not be an unfair summary of what it appears to be that Sexylizzy2813 was trying to do at the time of the post to reopen this topic (from it's previous inactive status).. yet it seems that it would have had been better to try to post something close to being on the topic of bitcoin, liquidity, velocity or something that might have had been somewhat closer to adding some possible value.

By the way Sexylizzy2813.. if you want to continue to respond to the various ideas of my post (which are also mostly off topic and meandering into meaninglessness), maybe you should think about possible ways to address the actual topic of this thread (related to bitcoin and velocity or something close to that.. have you even heard what is bitcoin?) rather than just continuing to respond to my posts in regards to how you feel about my responses to your seeming ongoing desires to stay off topic.

I think the correct phrase should be...
I woke up this morning and after reading this thread then I thought maybe I should go and whore on some merits, I might be lucky to get a panderer to drop some for me.

No need to thank me for the correction.

A constant entrant of new users to bitcoin isn't just enough to create a good level of velocity of the coin. With the current number of users of bitcoin all over the globe yet the velocity doesn't correspond with the users and that's because so many are using it as a store of value while a very few are the ones using it as a means of exchange for goods and services. Unlike dollar where almost all users mainly using the currency as means of exchange for goods and services all over the world.

Another important thing that can sustain a good velocity of bitcoin is the lifting of restrictions imposed on bitcoin by some countries around the world as this restrictions has made the users in these countries focus on just seeing the digital currency as a store of value whereas the BTC has so many usages that many users haven't experienced it with.

Merits Bitcoin fees not transactions -> not transactions no velocity.. end dot!

Maybe what I said came out wrongly but with the way you painted it was why, that I should improve on my post quality, it was as if nothing have said in this Forum has ever made sense or weight up something of more informative concerning the topics or thread. I'm open to corrections but it doesn't mean I shouldn't air out how I feel and when I see good things I shouldn't say it, come on, things I said has nothing to do with getting merit in as much as is one of the goal or what is used to measure how good our posts are. Like I said maybe I made a mistake, still learning from you high ranked members though.



You make me laugh senior, you know in life you can't give what you don't have, talking about experience, I haven't gotten much of that experience that you have or some other users have concerning Bitcoin on this Forum, I'm still new to it so if I'm learning or new where is the experience that I'm going to bring?
I don't want to start acting like I know it all like some users do just to fil among, mehn... I'll do what I have to do, I also like contributing in threads I find myself (don't kick me out on that Mr @JayJuanGee) I get your point and what you said iamd the way you put it, is hardly said by some users so you have to know that you getting me exposed to many things, I appreciate it.

The reason that I wrote my above post in the way that I did was based on the lack of quality in your post that I was responding to.

You should not have to ask anyone whether your post was good or not, and surely if there was some kind of appreciation of your post then you might get some merits for the post - and even good/great posts do not always receive merits.


You are right.  I am not sure if research is necessary, but practice does likely help, and also if you try to tie some of your experiences into your post, you ask questions, attempt to engage with other members, and even provide some insight (or sharing of your own experiences and opinions that relate to the topic of the thread or even to some issue that might be raised by one of the posts), then it becomes more likely that other members will recognize you as a contributor to the forum, and even if they might not sent you an smerit for that particular post, they might send you an smerit after seeing several of your posts and appreciating that you are providing some useful or even thought provoking information...

There is no exact formula, and each of us likely develop differing posting styles, so in that regard, sometimes you can agree with other forum members and other times you can disagree with them, and providing some of those kinds of responses might contribute towards your practicing and getting better in your post and your posting style.

I had not necessarily been a good poster on, and sometimes there are needs to research into topics or to go outside and have some life experiences (including reflecting upon some of your experiences) to figure out how various topics might relate to one another or maybe even asking questions about whether some topics might relate or if there might be some reasons that you suspect to be connected to a world event or some kind of a thing that is happening in bitcoin, and with that sometimes you can also criticize some article that you read and say why you might believe some parts and why you doubt other parts of the article (or video).

Many times it is best to find areas that you are interested or that you want to learn about and find your own ways of learning.. or even finding your own ways of explaining something to someone else, and maybe it takes you several drafts to put together your response, and then maybe other times, you are able to draft a response quickly because you already have a lot of ideas about the topic, and maybe other times, you will start to write a draft response, but then you decide to abandon posting such response because you realize that you do not know enough and that you might have to research that particular topic before you feel more comfortable posting about it or even asking some questions about it.

You're one of the best in this forum when it comes to posting and getting more fact and I'd like to do same as you. But my question is how can one know if he/she is doing well in terms of dropping a quality post, sometimes I ask if I'm doing it right or not, it's gets me worried.
Is like you have it all on your finger tips, what's the secret, please don't tell me research Mr @JayJuanGee😅

Yes.. a good place to start might be to improve in your post quality.. since you did not really say much of anything that might actually relate to the topic of this thread or to relate to the contents (or the points that were raised) of any of the recent thread posts.

Got up this morning and saw this huge assignment, I thought is something I can pass through. Frankly speaking I'm still new to this (Bitcoin) and I still see myself as a newbie in the Bitcoin section.
Maybe I'll take my time to read more comments on this thread as this is new to me, who knows I might grab something new. There's always room to learn and improve in what we do.

Yeah.. you seem to be needed to be shot down.. especially if you believe that spending is necessary and you place that first, and if you actually look at bitcoin, there are a whole hell of a lot of HODLers who are just stacking away their bitcoin... which is also going to have affects on circulating supply that is available to be affecting the price, and the lower the circulating supply, because so many people are not moving their coins, then there will be more and more upwards pressures on price with whatever supply happens to be circulating.

Furthermore, there remains a considerable ongoing lack of incentive to spend bitcoin if it seems to be the most sound of money and there exist a lot of other less sound monies that can be spent... gresham's law 101....

Surely, if orange coin go up, then there will likely develop a whole hell of a lot more incentives for HODLers to take some of their coins out of storage and to put them into circulation... which will either stop the coin from going up in price or bring the price down, and we have so far seen in BTC's history that the speculative component and the ongoing relative lack of liquidity as compared to other longer existing investment assets, such as gold, real estate, stocks and bonds, and currencies, that the ups and downs in bitcoin are likely to continue to shoot past reasonableness... but still does not signify that bitcoin is NOT valuable as a storage of value, medium of exchange or unit of account, but it does seem to suggest that orange coin must go up in price a whole hell of a lot more in order to make it become a lot less difficult to be bouncing around with such ongoing violence.. likely another 100x increase in price will help in that lessening of volatility direction... It won't solve volatility completely because price discovery is still growing, but it will likely help.. and probably will take a couple more 4 year cycles to get another 100x increase from here.. though we never know for sure with bitcoin and if the buying pressures are keeping up in terms of ongoing increasing awareness of its value... as well as network effects systems continuing to build around it to keep up with price finding, too.

The first question I suppose is why is bitcoin worth anything at all. First it can have value as a medium of exchange, and second it can itself be a store of value.

I may be seeing things simplistically (I am seeing things simplistically - if there's one thing I know, it's that I don't know much) - but where are we right now? Bitcoin is not widely accepted in society as a medium of exchange. What can you buy with bitcoin? Not much. I can't go to the corner shop and buy a newspaper with it. This severely restricts the velocity, or how quickly bitcoin is circulating in the economy. It's not that bitcoin is accepted everywhere but no-one is using it, it's rather that society itself at the moment has a huge effect by enforcing a limit on what can be spent and where.

So bitcoin is not widely used as a medium of exchange. But people are still buying it. Why? Because they think it will be a medium of exchange in the future? Or because they think it will continue to rise in value? I would argue the rise in value is by far the major driver.

My amateurish conclusion then is that the velocity is not that relevant yet, as the opportunity just isn't there. We are still in the early days of crypto, before mass-adoption, we are buying bitcoin in order to hold it rather than to spend it, and velocity is relevant more as an indicator of the limits that society enforces on crypto rather than as an indicator of the performance of bitcoin itself.

Apologies if I've completely misunderstood what is being talked about - shoot me down if so!

This is a comparison of apples and pears.
If anything, the 21 million Bitcoins on the Bitcoin network are comparable to the monetary base, i.e. M0 of the US dollar.

In fact, I've reminisced in the past that for a realistic monetary theory of Bitcoin, one should assume the existence of some form of M1 and maybe even M2, M3 for Bitcoin as well.
In the case of the MtGox fractional reserve, said "Bitcoin M1" was actually on the order of half a million BTC larger than its M0.

And yes, I know I'm a heretic, and I've said "Yehova"

my first thought is to go  to say that for a sustained velocity it needs a constantly new number of (new users/Interactions)..

What exchange/s are they using to determine the 90-day transaction volume of USD?  I'm concern about the legitimacy of the volume. We all know that the majority of BTC/USD pair is only wash trading since
the most major exchange is unregulated. Anyone can explain to me further details. Thanks in advance.