Topic: Meta board flooded by account recovery thread ( ban/locked and hacked account) (Read 622 times)
November 01, 2018, 07:38:27 PM
This problem is called a COMPLETE failure at Administration level-theymos
November 01, 2018, 06:09:19 PM
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Accounts will always be sold here whether we ban them or not, but the best we can do is look at ways at curbing the behaviour and I think letting users purchase more donator ranks like Silver and Gold with the benefits of higher ranks is the way to go. It would pretty much kill account sales because most people aren't going to take the risk of being scammed and all they want the accounts for in the first place is for a larger signature anyway.
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It could also help the spam situation as well, because if the account farmers won't farm and sell more and more accounts, there will be no need to gather activity (and merit) for the farmed accounts, this means less spam or copypaste posts on every board (but mainly on the mostly infected boards...)Accounts will always be sold here whether we ban them or not, but the best we can do is look at ways at curbing the behaviour and I think letting users purchase more donator ranks like Silver and Gold with the benefits of higher ranks is the way to go. It would pretty much kill account sales because most people aren't going to take the risk of being scammed and all they want the accounts for in the first place is for a larger signature anyway.
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October 29, 2018, 08:29:46 AM
The real question is: Why so many accounts need to restored from hack? (after the hack in the past)
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
Can we provide a mechanism that the Seller of an account will publicly announce that there is a new owner of his/her account?
(though I notice that Buyers of these accounts are always tagged as red trust)
The rule suggests that it is not illegal to sell an account (yet it is discouraged). At the very least, this can lessen the occurrence of the concern of selling of an account and getting it back using a signed address.
Nobody is going to do this and you've already stated why. Accounts that are known to have traded hands will almost certainly be tagged and that's why the deals are done behind closed doors and this isn't something theymos could or will enforce anyway. Accounts will always be sold here whether we ban them or not, but the best we can do is look at ways at curbing the behaviour and I think letting users purchase more donator ranks like Silver and Gold with the benefits of higher ranks is the way to go. It would pretty much kill account sales because most people aren't going to take the risk of being scammed and all they want the accounts for in the first place is for a larger signature anyway.
The rules can be amended. Besides, they're 'unofficial' and I don't think anyone is trying to prohibit users protesting or appealing completely, but rather to limit the number that are needlessly doing it and also clogging up Meta in the process. If the way bans are issued changes and the reason is stated then users won't need to create a new account to ask why they're banned as they'll know. Some will still inevitably protest but people are proposing it should just be in a separate 'ban issues' subboard.
Totally agreed. I also created a thread regarding this separate sub-forum for ban appeals but most of the members wouldn't agree with my suggestion. It is not a big deal to show the reason for their ban if we think about the number of useless threads. If the admin wouldn't agree to start a separate sub-board it is better to increase the number of Global Mods to investigate the appeals/hacked account requests quickly.
As I said before, it would just be better to amend the way people are banned and state the reason then 99% of people probably won't bother asking why because they'll already know. We'll still get the occasional protester asking for leniency but there's nothing we can do about that.
October 28, 2018, 06:34:55 AM
The real question is: Why so many accounts need to restored from hack? (after the hack in the past)
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
Can we provide a mechanism that the Seller of an account will publicly announce that there is a new owner of his/her account?
(though I notice that Buyers of these accounts are always tagged as red trust)
The rule suggests that it is not illegal to sell an account (yet it is discouraged). At the very least, this can lessen the occurrence of the concern of selling of an account and getting it back using a signed address.
October 28, 2018, 06:10:06 AM
Unfortunately, all of the ban appeal attempts in this section will fail. Modz has 100% accuracy when they ban an account! This is the only way OP that we could help the admin to resolve some issue for the ban appeal of some users in this forum. But, for those locked accounts then I cannot comment a post for this time.
I'm afraid to say that you're wrong. Because I have been banned by a Global Mod mistakenly when I was a member and unbanned with an apology. They are also humans and I can't imagine how much workload they got assigned with the limited number of available Global Mods.The rules can be amended. Besides, they're 'unofficial' and I don't think anyone is trying to prohibit users protesting or appealing completely, but rather to limit the number that are needlessly doing it and also clogging up Meta in the process. If the way bans are issued changes and the reason is stated then users won't need to create a new account to ask why they're banned as they'll know. Some will still inevitably protest but people are proposing it should just be in a separate 'ban issues' subboard.
Totally agreed. I also created a thread regarding this separate sub-forum for ban appeals but most of the members wouldn't agree with my suggestion. It is not a big deal to show the reason for their ban if we think about the number of useless threads. If the admin wouldn't agree to start a separate sub-board it is better to increase the number of Global Mods to investigate the appeals/hacked account requests quickly.
October 28, 2018, 03:09:39 AM
It was supposed to be about the end of June but whatever. It could be one of the best forum improvement currently needed. Seeing how the situation is... 
You sure about that? Wasn't that the reporter badges? Pretty sure he said by the end of the year for the recovery system.
We should not stop ban users to post in this section for all I know that it is being allowed by the admin of this forum. This is being specified in this thread Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ
Besides a user has also the right to know why he has ban in the forum and so does the staff or moderators to follow their interpretation of the rules.
Quote
25. If you get banned (temporary or permanently) and create a new account to continue posting / sending PMs, it's considered ban evasion. The only exception is creating a thread in Meta about your ban.
Besides a user has also the right to know why he has ban in the forum and so does the staff or moderators to follow their interpretation of the rules.
The rules can be amended. Besides, they're 'unofficial' and I don't think anyone is trying to prohibit users protesting or appealing completely, but rather to limit the number that are needlessly doing it and also clogging up Meta in the process. If the way bans are issued changes and the reason is stated then users won't need to create a new account to ask why they're banned as they'll know. Some will still inevitably protest but people are proposing it should just be in a separate 'ban issues' subboard.
October 27, 2018, 06:26:04 AM
Didn't I hear about an automatic account recovery system being implemented at some point? I'm assuming the backlog of current accounts would still need manual recovery.
Theymos said it should be hopefully ready by the end of the year, but there's no guarantees. I also don't know what those who can't sign a message are going to do, or can sign one but from an eth address or whatever.
Ah there you go then! Keeping up to date with only a phone has been difficult so I'll have a lot to catch up on in 9 days.
I imagine it's like I said and will still require manual recovery.
October 26, 2018, 04:28:44 AM
It was supposed to be about the end of June but whatever. It could be one of the best forum improvement currently needed. Seeing how the situation is...
October 26, 2018, 04:11:58 AM
Didn't I hear about an automatic account recovery system being implemented at some point? I'm assuming the backlog of current accounts would still need manual recovery.
Theymos said it should be hopefully ready by the end of the year, but there's no guarantees. I also don't know what those who can't sign a message are going to do, or can sign one but from an eth address or whatever.
October 26, 2018, 01:55:19 AM
Didn't I hear about an automatic account recovery system being implemented at some point? I'm assuming the backlog of current accounts would still need manual recovery.
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October 25, 2018, 03:56:21 AM
Since i have already commented on a similar thread, I believe there's no point writing another reply here but instead I will quote my previous reply and I believe this is the solution to problem of forum avoiding flooded account recovering thread on meta board.
I'm in support of the discussion "New Child Board for banned users" I also have some additional suggestion. I notice all members who started the topic on ban accounts are new members and that can only mean as a ban user you lose the privileges to start topics or rely on topics so the only option is to create a new account to appeal your case. I believe this isn't the best solution since most users get banned and most times don't know why. So in addition to creating a separate child board for banned users, they should also have the privileges of using their old account to appeal their cases only on the child board section. this will prevent the amount of alt account created on the forum.
October 25, 2018, 02:39:40 AM
I don't get why can't the forum hire like one or two people to recover those locked accounts with signed messages.
One or two people would be able to recover dozens of accounts per day and this problem could be easily solved very quickly.
There are many trusted members here on the forum that would do that for a small fee in btc.
One or two people would be able to recover dozens of accounts per day and this problem could be easily solved very quickly.
There are many trusted members here on the forum that would do that for a small fee in btc.
A couple of staff including myself and other veteran users have thrown their hat into the ring to help out with recovering them. Only theymos can choose to do this, but he did say an automatic recovery tool should be available before the end of the year. That won't help those users who don't have a signed message though.
I don't get why can't the forum hire like one or two people to recover those locked accounts with signed messages.
This trust means that they can access to admin's account. Thus they have full powers just as theymos does.Even if we assume that such a trust exists, the large number of admins will cause some bugs + any hacks of these accounts would threaten the forum as a whole.
Also, the process of restoring accounts is not merely a sign/verify the message.
The best solution is that theymos trusts the investigations of some members and thus recovers those accounts based on their recommendations.
You don't have to be given full root access, you just need to be trusted with being able to restore people's accounts and not abuse that for you own gain.
I really don't think that this is a problem at all as long as it is about an account recovery following the guidelines for recovering via a signed message as sometimes a follow up thread is something that is needed to be done in order to get the attention of the admins
The problem is they're just not being recovered at all by the admins and until they are (or the recovery tool comes) then people are going to keep making the threads and bumping it every day or so often as that's what they're instructed to do.
Up for visibility. I think it's time to create sticked post by moderators since so many ban post reflecting on meta. Mod could answer them easily who got ban. Once open meta just see ban appeal post. Sometimes difficult to found few important post.
People largely don't read stickies. Half of the people whining about account bans or hackings don't even post them in Meta; they just get moved to there by staff. I'll just repost this which I posted in another thread as it's still relevant:
But this is what Meta is for: forum-based issues, and that's what a banned account falls under. It's even in the rules that banned users can only post in here. I don't think we need a new sub for this, especially as Meta would be pretty empty without them, but a way we can severely curb this behaviour is to just change the way bans are issued. If permabanned users are just actually told that they're banned for copy and pastes then 98% of them probably won't bother creating another account to ask why (though I'm sure some will still do so to try futilely protest and whatnot). Bans are clunky and tedious to issue on this forum and I don't know whether theymos will make any changes now, but I'm sure it'll be easier and more efficient on the new forum software and hopefully reasons can be given for all bans. We have one permaban button for Ban + IP ban and maybe theymos could issue another that does the same but automatically gives the reason as copy and paste since the bans issued for this are prolific and probably won't decline anytime soon. Only he can make changes to that though, but I'm not sure a new board is necessary. Same goes for account recovery. They just actually need to start being recovered and moving them into a new section is just sweeping them under the rug.
October 24, 2018, 10:33:23 PM
Up for visibility. I think it's time to create sticked post by moderators since so many ban post reflecting on meta. Mod could answer them easily who got ban. Once open meta just see ban appeal post. Sometimes difficult to found few important post.
August 20, 2018, 12:41:29 PM
I really don't think that this is a problem at all as long as it is about an account recovery following the guidelines for recovering via a signed message as sometimes a follow up thread is something that is needed to be done in order to get the attention of the admins but what annoys me is account recovery threads for bans on the reason of copy and pasting these are the one who we really need to focus our attention on as they will really never recover their accounts as it is permaban.
Although they all do have the exception of creating a thread in the meta section these people who are banned from plagiarism are really annoying on how they beg to unlock their account and how they will never do it again, accounts banned due to plagiarism can never be recovered and there is no exception. What we can only do is to report these threads to be locked or deleted so that it won't be on the first page again.
Although they all do have the exception of creating a thread in the meta section these people who are banned from plagiarism are really annoying on how they beg to unlock their account and how they will never do it again, accounts banned due to plagiarism can never be recovered and there is no exception. What we can only do is to report these threads to be locked or deleted so that it won't be on the first page again.
August 20, 2018, 12:35:42 PM
As theymos said some time ago the recovery will be automated, as he is working on the new system which should have been implemented this month, but as we know theymos, he is probably traveling somewhere with speed of light and the time in minutes there are measured with years here soo.. idk what is his idea for a "month"...
snip
snipBy seeing this pattern for quite a time, I believe the automated recovery system for the lost/hacked account will be with us when the new forum software is out, and we dont know too when is the time for that. Well, I guess he is just too busy, he has real life too bro.
Same as cellard, we would like to see the official statement from Theymos. Thanks iasenko.
August 20, 2018, 10:54:47 AM
We have been through this, but I say talking about it for the millionth time is good, it is good for as long as there is not a solution, otherwise the problem would be forgotten.
And the problem grows at an exponential pace. There is people waiting for 1+ year, after signing addresses. Totally nuts isn't it.
This sounds good. Can you point me to the exact quote of theymos saying that? I can't find it. I would like to know how exactly the system is going to work so it cannot be exploited by attackers to steal accounts.
And the problem grows at an exponential pace. There is people waiting for 1+ year, after signing addresses. Totally nuts isn't it.
As theymos said some time ago the recovery will be automated, as he is working on the new system which should have been implemented this month, but as we know theymos, he is probably traveling somewhere with speed of light and the time in minutes there are measured with years here soo.. idk what is his idea for a "month"...
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
The real question is: Why so many accounts need to restored from hack? (after the hack in the past)
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
This sounds good. Can you point me to the exact quote of theymos saying that? I can't find it. I would like to know how exactly the system is going to work so it cannot be exploited by attackers to steal accounts.
August 19, 2018, 06:26:17 PM
~
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
You right man, they will always find a way to scam people.
August 19, 2018, 03:52:55 PM
As theymos said some time ago the recovery will be automated, as he is working on the new system which should have been implemented this month, but as we know theymos, he is probably traveling somewhere with speed of light and the time in minutes there are measured with years here soo.. idk what is his idea for a "month"...
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
The real question is: Why so many accounts need to restored from hack? (after the hack in the past)
Big part of the accounts are sold and then the seller is trying to get it back as he has the signed address in the list and claiming that the account was hacked. That's why there should be an "investigation" for each case.
August 19, 2018, 03:41:43 PM
The real question is: Why so many accounts need to restored from hack? (after the hack in the past)
August 19, 2018, 03:39:22 PM
I don't get why can't the forum hire like one or two people to recover those locked accounts with signed messages.
This trust means that they can access to admin's account. Thus they have full powers just as theymos does.Even if we assume that such a trust exists, the large number of admins will cause some bugs + any hacks of these accounts would threaten the forum as a whole.
Also, the process of restoring accounts is not merely a sign/verify the message.
The best solution is that theymos trusts the investigations of some members and thus recovers those accounts based on their recommendations.
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