Miami arresting people for use of Bitcoin - page 3.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: TheButterZone on February 18, 2014, 02:07:15 AM

A variant of C) actually happened http://www.ijreview.com/2014/02/115178-police-shoot-kill-80-year-old-man-bed/ and is likely not the only time it has ever happened.

It depends on the state.

Quote

A Central Texas man who shot and killed a sheriff's deputy entering his home will not be charged with capital murder, attorneys said Thursday.

A local grand jury declined Wednesday to indict Henry Goedrich Magee for the Dec. 19 death of Burleson County Sgt. Adam Sowders, who was part of a group of investigators executing a search warrant for Magee's rural home.

Sowders and other officers entered the home about 90 miles northwest of Houston without knocking just before 6 a.m. Authorities were looking for guns and marijuana.

Magee's attorney, Dick DeGuerin, said his client thought he was being burglarized, reached for a gun and opened fire.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/06/4668574/grand-jury-wont-indict-man-who.html#.UwMSBfldUom

Juries often reflect the viewpoints of the population at large and my guess in Texas they are getting sick and tired of using no knock warranties to bust non violent offenders just so sheriff boys get to play soldier using military weapons, gear, and tactics. The jury was sending a message to judges and prosecutors. If you order a no knock warrant and get someone killed the blood is on your hands.

russokai

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Quote from: DoctorOz on February 18, 2014, 02:38:25 AM

It has nothing to do with BTC, it's just an ordinary credit card crime that involved BTC.

Wow some people are so easily confused and that's what the authorities count on. Simple minded people believe eveyrthing they are told.

DoctorOz

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It has nothing to do with BTC, it's just an ordinary credit card crime that involved BTC.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: chufchuf on February 18, 2014, 01:52:04 AM

Is justice in the US a joke? I mean, is it seriously being discussed that the police can suggest a crime and if the ''criminal'' doesn't give what he perceives to be a mobster a lecture on ethics and walks out carefree as to whether he'll be followed, then the ''criminal'' can be put in prison?

Btw in other countries this police entrapment isn't legal.

Yep.

In Amerika, a man who you reasonably believe to be armed suggests committing a crime. You then are expected to

A) Comply, and be persecuted, despite your reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury
B) Verbally oppose the criminal and suffer death or serious bodily injury, effectively commit suicide
C) Carry a gun in violation of "gun control", and attempt to citizen's arrest the criminal, risking death or serious bodily injury. In the case of undercover/plainclothes cops, they will shoot you, then you will be written off as a "suicide by cop", even though the wire recording will reveal a hailstorm of gunfire, and then an order for you to drop the gun as you are falling or fallen to the ground, a block of human Swiss cheese

A variant of C) actually happened http://www.ijreview.com/2014/02/115178-police-shoot-kill-80-year-old-man-bed/ and is likely not the only time it has ever happened.

chufchuf

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Is justice in the US a joke? I mean, is it seriously being discussed that the police can suggest a crime and if the ''criminal'' doesn't give what he perceives to be a mobster a lecture on ethics and walks out carefree as to whether he'll be followed, then the ''criminal'' can be put in prison?

Btw in other countries this police entrapment isn't legal.

The MSB license thing, they're probably fishing to get MSB interpreted as pubicly advertising the sale of, rather than selling on an exchange, which is a ridiculous and fine line, and would probably be taken down like a number of other clarifications have since the March FinCen requirements (which the NSA asked the FinCen to give them since they too didn't know whether to charge MtGox's Dwolla..).

Trance

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Quote from: erik777 on February 09, 2014, 05:45:07 PM

Quote from: mgio on February 09, 2014, 05:28:16 PM

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.

No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering.

When buying and selling Bitcoins if the buyer says Im using these bitcoins for ILLEGAL purchases and you sell that buyer those coins, you are breaking a law.

TheFootMan

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on February 11, 2014, 02:33:19 AM

It makes sense that Miami, the illegal drug capital of the world, would voraciously chase money laundering criminals. If the piggies set up a sting they were being watched for a long time. Who knows how much drug money localbitcoins has laundered in the last couple of years. The downside isn't that the idiots were caught but that yet another negative media report exists showing John Q Public that Bitcoins are only for criminals. Lovely!

Why bee worried? Bitcoin will win or fail on its own merits.

HSBC and others have been laundering money for God knows how long, and it doesn't seem like that have affected the banking system of fiat money too much?

If we do a check, I'm sure all drug trade in Miami is mostly done with USD dollars. In cash.

Perhaps we should ban the US Dollar? Or at least cash! Only criminals use cash!

If govts. really really wanted to combat drugs, they would put all their efforts into fixing the root causes, establishing why the narcotics trade flourishes, and see what alternatives they can offer people, and how they can keep people off the drugs, not because the people are threatened to do so, but because they have alternatives and lead meaningful lives.

Armis

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Quote from: cbeast on February 17, 2014, 10:06:58 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on February 11, 2014, 02:33:19 AM

It makes sense that Miami, the illegal drug capital of the world, would voraciously chase money laundering criminals. If the piggies set up a sting they were being watched for a long time. Who knows how much drug money localbitcoins has laundered in the last couple of years. The downside isn't that the idiots were caught but that yet another negative media report exists showing John Q Public that Bitcoins are only for criminals. Lovely!

Some sting operation. They go after guys that advertise publicly for their service. Wow! If all criminals did that, the Florida cops could just meet all of them at the donut shop.

in uniform

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on February 11, 2014, 02:33:19 AM

It makes sense that Miami, the illegal drug capital of the world, would voraciously chase money laundering criminals. If the piggies set up a sting they were being watched for a long time. Who knows how much drug money localbitcoins has laundered in the last couple of years. The downside isn't that the idiots were caught but that yet another negative media report exists showing John Q Public that Bitcoins are only for criminals. Lovely!

Some sting operation. They go after guys that advertise publicly for their service. Wow! If all criminals did that, the Florida cops could just meet all of them at the donut shop.

erik777

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Earn with impressio.io

Quote from: Shimini on February 11, 2014, 06:14:29 AM

If Id sell/buy BTC from a guy and he tells me about the crimes he is going to commit with these, I'd definitely question, why he would tell a stranger about the crimes he going to commit with these BTC and Id never do business with him. How can someone be that dumb and even more tell him - person to person - that he "will think about" buying stolen credit cards? Amazing ...

a> how do you know they didn't question. does the law require them to verbalize their concern?

b> since the 30k transaction never happened, there's no proof they were willing to complete it after hearing the Russian story.

c> if you suddenly realized you were either talking to the russian mob or talking to undercover cops without knowing for certain which, would you respond by self-righteously trying to give them a lecture on how you are better than them for not dealing with stolen credit cards, or would you brush them off with a meaningless response to their question like "I will think about it" so as not to risk insulting them or leading them to believe you're a threat?

The law does not require you to self-righteously confront potentially dangerous criminals. And, saying you will think about something that someone just asked you is not the same as proposing an idea. The former is being polite and avoiding confrontation. The latter would be an example of demonstrating "intent".

Shimini

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If Id sell/buy BTC from a guy and he tells me about the crimes he is going to commit with these, I'd definitely question, why he would tell a stranger about the crimes he going to commit with these BTC and Id never do business with him. How can someone be that dumb and even more tell him - person to person - that he "will think about" buying stolen credit cards? Amazing ...

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

It makes sense that Miami, the illegal drug capital of the world, would voraciously chase money laundering criminals. If the piggies set up a sting they were being watched for a long time. Who knows how much drug money localbitcoins has laundered in the last couple of years. The downside isn't that the idiots were caught but that yet another negative media report exists showing John Q Public that Bitcoins are only for criminals. Lovely!

Armis

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Quote from: MikeyVeez on February 10, 2014, 11:35:26 PM

Quote from: erik777 on February 09, 2014, 05:45:07 PM

Quote from: mgio on February 09, 2014, 05:28:16 PM

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.

No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering.

No they arrested people who sold bitcoin without a money service business license. YOU CAN NOT SELL BITCOIN FOR FIAT, if you do you become a money transmitter and can be breaking anti money laundering laws.

Kindly reference the laws that you are talking about, because I don't see how selling bitcoin for fiat is any different than selling gold for fiat, defunct currency for fiat, selling stamps for fiat, or selling, or selling like or unlike fiat for fiat.

Supposedly they are laundering the money (fiat) not the bitcoin so the presumption is that they take illegal "CASH" to purchase bitcoins then use the bitcoins to make legal purchases.

The part about not having a license is a technicality that gets taken care of with an application, however money laundering is a crime even with a Money Service Business license, that license doesn't give you the right to launder money.

I'm very suspicious of the motive for the investigation, it seems to be a grand waste of resources to have fed officers (FBI and Secret Service) presumably contacting random localbitcoin sellers in an effort to hit them with money laundering charges. My guess is there was something else that was the true reason for the sting. I'll go out on a limb and say the guys probably ripped off too many btc buyers as such had to be shut down one way or another.

JohnCar

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Quote from: MikeyVeez on February 10, 2014, 11:35:26 PM

Quote from: erik777 on February 09, 2014, 05:45:07 PM

Quote from: mgio on February 09, 2014, 05:28:16 PM

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.

No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering.

No they arrested people who sold bitcoin without a money service business license. YOU CAN NOT SELL BITCOIN FOR FIAT, if you do you become a money transmitter and can be breaking anti money laundering laws.

So bitcoin is a currency now? Bit confused here ..............

MikeyVeez

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Quote from: erik777 on February 09, 2014, 05:45:07 PM

Quote from: mgio on February 09, 2014, 05:28:16 PM

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.

No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering.

No they arrested people who sold bitcoin without a money service business license. YOU CAN NOT SELL BITCOIN FOR FIAT, if you do you become a money transmitter and can be breaking anti money laundering laws.

russokai

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Quote from: Armis on February 10, 2014, 09:14:00 PM

but it should be fairly, if not reasonably, obvious that the "I'll think about it" was merely a brush off.

Of course...god some people are dumb.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Yes: thoughtcrime.

Quote from: tinus42 on February 10, 2014, 09:08:17 PM

Quote from: erik777 on February 10, 2014, 10:05:21 AM

Nevertheless, it is clearly wise to back out of a trade when they say something that doesn't sound right, if you can. Until we know the details of this case, though, we don't even know if backing out was an option. Quite often they'll throw that in after the transaction is initiated.

What would happen if the undercover agent showed a gun when their mark tries to back out or makes a threat and that results in them accepting the deal. Would they still be convicted?

Nobody is allowed to feel mortal fear of law enforcement officers, even if they don't know that the person with a gun is law enforcement officer and thinks they'll get shot by a criminal (or his accomplice) for not cooperating.

The gun didn't even necessarily have to be shown, if it "printed" (you could see the outline of the gun and/or holster through clothing).

Siegfried

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Quote from: Lorren on February 10, 2014, 09:06:49 PM

The report is a lot more clear than the newspaper article. It seems fairly clear that the seller really didn't have problems engaging in illegal activity. The fact that he said that he would think about selling the stolen credit cards for BTC makes his case even worse.

That's not to say that the police weren't participating in entrapment, but perhaps there was other evidence not listed in this report that made them think that they were already involved in illegal activity.

It is clear that way more people know about Bitcoin now than a year ago, and you can't really get away with the sorts of things that you might have been able to get away with in the past.

Thinking about something is now a crime?

kireinaha

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why do the police keep wasting our tax money? here's an idea: stop arresting pot smokers, prostitutes and bitcoin sellers and catch the fucking murderers and gang bangers.

FilipZ

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IGT-crypto - lifetime income from working exchange

can't believe it!

it's pure provocation, Espinoza did nothing!

fashistic country full of provocateurs, in some counties provocations like this one are interpreted like criminal act! Its prohibited! Police can't inspire or lead people in to crime!

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