Miners are happy, while we suffer? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Questat

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Quote from: philanthropist67 on May 26, 2020, 01:29:46 PM

I still have no idea of how this fee system works in bitcoin. Sometimes minimum transaction fee is 1.1 usd while at times its 0.5 usd. It's very complex, will be happy if somebody can teach me this in simple words.

Check out this video : Bitcoin Fees Explained, short video explaining the fees, if you like to know more, there's a lot of related videos you can find in youtube, it's just too basic, everyone has to know about it.

disclaimer : video is not mind nor endorsing it for personal interest.

stompix

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Quote from: Betwrong on May 26, 2020, 01:17:32 PM

Quote from: stompix on May 26, 2020, 04:46:56 AM

~

Now I see. Thanks for the explanation!

But still ... I just checked the last 10 blocks, and most of them have around 1 BTC or above in transaction fees. So we can't say, at least these days, that "fees are just a small part of the reward", right?

Of course, it pales in comparison, for example the maximum in fees this month was around here

Quote from: FanatMonet on May 26, 2020, 05:26:42 PM

Miners logically should slightly increase the commission, because their number has decreased after halving, which means that transaction processing may take longer than before. Therefore, the growth of the commission was quite expected.

Miners don't have a commission and they have no way to impose one.

Quote from: philanthropist67 on May 26, 2020, 01:29:46 PM

I still have no idea of how this fee system works in bitcoin. Sometimes minimum transaction fee is 1.1 usd while at times its 0.5 usd. It's very complex, will be happy if somebody can teach me this in simple words.

As simple as possible.
There is a limited amount of blocks that are mined daily with limited space for transactions.
When there are more transactions waiting to be confirmed than space the ones with higher fees get in, the ones with lower fees do not.

Think of it like the scalper thing, there are no tickets resellers when the stadium is empty, but at the Superbowl you pay three times the price to get in.

fullhdpixel

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Well, not really all the miners that are making a profit from what has just happened. There are so many of them that are no longer into business, because things stopped working for them after the halving. Some of them had miners that can't compete in the current market, so they had to change it. Those who couldn't change theirs and get a new one had no other option than to simply stop their mining business.

This happens all the time; last time there was a Halving the fee increased later, and to be sincere a lot of people were discouraged. I had to pay high fees for every transaction I made, and it was really annoying since I was doing transactions every week and paying the high fees.

FanatMonet

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Miners logically should slightly increase the commission, because their number has decreased after halving, which means that transaction processing may take longer than before. Therefore, the growth of the commission was quite expected.

philanthropist67

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I still have no idea of how this fee system works in bitcoin. Sometimes minimum transaction fee is 1.1 usd while at times its 0.5 usd. It's very complex, will be happy if somebody can teach me this in simple words.

supine

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Quote from: bitmover on May 24, 2020, 07:17:49 AM

Fees are high because volatility is too high. A lot of traders are sending bitcoin to and out exchanges... this always happens.

But you can still make transactions with low fees. I made a transaction recently with 10 sat/byte that was confirmed in a few hours. You just need to be patient.

Miners are not making a lot of money due to halving. Fees are just a small part of the reward:

look this block for example
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/0000000000000000000e64f2f8a06ffeb03cb4a597fdcb11f43ee9bf16decbc3

Block Reward
6.25000000 BTC
Fee Reward
0.13771274 BTC

The problem is that people nowadays couldn't tolerate the delay and wants to get their crypto instantly while complaining about high fee's.
Some of them doesn't want to wait so they wouldn't send their Bitcoin with a low transaction fee for a slower transaction.
The miners are the ones making it possible for us to do some transaction and we are the responsible for our transaction fee it is like we are the ones who would set up how much we like to pay them for each and every transaction that we would do.

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Quote from: stompix on May 26, 2020, 04:46:56 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on May 25, 2020, 11:15:32 AM

I'm personally surprised that blocks with lees number of transactions are getting higher fee rewards, but that's how it is.

Full blocks with fewer transactions mean wither a large number of inputs or output, since in this time no normal user is consolidating his wallet those mostly come from exchanges doing their payouts or moving their coins, and since for them time is essential and users already pay for these fees they afford to pay more. For example, one of my deposit waited for 12 hours before being confirmed at 10sat/b but in the next blocks the exchange consolidated some 30-40 deposits and moved them with a fee of 50sat/b, more than triple what it would have taken to confirm it anyway.

Now I see. Thanks for the explanation!

But still ... I just checked the last 10 blocks, and most of them have around 1 BTC or above in transaction fees. So we can't say, at least these days, that "fees are just a small part of the reward", right?

I just wanted to draw attention to this fact, because normally, indeed, the coinbase transaction amounts to more than 95% of miner's cumulative reward. But not in the days like these, look at the Fee Rewards during the December 2017 crazy racing:

Block 500900 (2017-12-25)

Block 500036 (2017-12-19)

Mianae

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Quote from: Kelvinid on May 26, 2020, 12:06:15 PM

Quote from: Mianae on May 26, 2020, 11:35:24 AM

Not trying to be on the side of the miners here but let us look at it from this direction. These miners pay heavily for the resources needed for mining which spans from mining rigs to electricity. And also let us not forget that mining difficulties is up its only wise to understand things from the side of the miners also and not just think about us the users. With every halving comes a reduction of their mining rewards, they can only make up for their costs through the fees.

A reason that most users tend not to understand the situation. Halving won't be the advantage of miners, instead, that's their losses as the rewards cut into half. And only the fees that they collected is the way to help them out and could still run their business. Maybe it wasn't time to complain, instead, its time to understand the situation.

As I saw this, miners aren't happy with the fees, they only do this just to cover-ups and able to sustain.

Yea you're right. Because given the fees collected, their cost for mining cannot be covered. We'll I do hope we all understand the situation and let live.

BuNga_cute

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It is true that miners are happy because rewards can be increased, inversely proportional to those of us who make transactions
have to pay expensive fees. But halving doesn't necessarily benefit miners, because halving reduces the number of rewards
obtained by miners. Therefore if halving occurs, the price of crypto must rise as well.

Kelvinid

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Quote from: Mianae on May 26, 2020, 11:35:24 AM

Not trying to be on the side of the miners here but let us look at it from this direction. These miners pay heavily for the resources needed for mining which spans from mining rigs to electricity. And also let us not forget that mining difficulties is up its only wise to understand things from the side of the miners also and not just think about us the users. With every halving comes a reduction of their mining rewards, they can only make up for their costs through the fees.

A reason that most users tend not to understand the situation. Halving won't be the advantage of miners, instead, that's their losses as the rewards cut into half. And only the fees that they collected is the way to help them out and could still run their business. Maybe it wasn't time to complain, instead, its time to understand the situation.

As I saw this, miners aren't happy with the fees, they only do this just to cover-ups and able to sustain.

Mianae

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Not trying to be on the side of the miners here but let us look at it from this direction. These miners pay heavily for the resources needed for mining which spans from mining rigs to electricity. And also let us not forget that mining difficulties is up its only wise to understand things from the side of the miners also and not just think about us the users. With every halving comes a reduction of their mining rewards, they can only make up for their costs through the fees.

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Miners don-t make real money from fees, even whit this 6.25btc blocks more than 90% of the income still coming from the block reward. So, if they earn the double amount or the triple will not make a big difference.

Miners can't be happy, the halving represents a big loss for them.

Rengga Jati

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Well, yeah. We already know that before and after Bitcoin halving, the fee is highly rising since January. The increase seems significantly related to the blocks for the transactions. The miners can prioritize the transactions that offer higher fees to be done first. Therefore, it means that the transaction fees should be changing and following the needs. Moreover currently, the high fees are also influenced by the heavy usage of the blocks, many people are doing transactions of bitcoin, and also the hype of the pump after halving.

In my opinion, it is fair enough. For, miners will be happy because they will get higher income from the fee of transactions. but, they also may not be happy at all because their reward of the blocks is halved. They lose half of the reward block. Probably, what will be done right now is the fee may be increasing again if there is still so heavy transaction usage.

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Quote from: Questat on May 26, 2020, 05:35:44 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on May 26, 2020, 05:22:09 AM

This happens from time to time. I remember the transaction fees were huge in 2017 in the ICO era and the bitcoin blockchain was mostly congested during those days. But it's not that you have to mandatorily pay the high fees. You can still manage to make transactions with low fees but will have to wait patiently for the transaction to confirm. This is a temporary thing I guess and soon the fees will come back to normal.

That was the time that people don't really care since they are making money, the market was in bull run that time, people are coming in due to FOMO so the fee wasn't a big issue, it's different this time as only bitcoin rises but it wasn't stable, it only had some hype for awhile, back to normal now.

That's why we see less demand coming on it right now since some of the people are been worried to payed a huge fees for each transaction they made but all things will be back to normal once all things will be cleared on the network side since maybe this is effect brought up by the halving since this issue also occurs way back before and subside when the halving hype gone, But the one I hope right now is to see something good with alts and bitcoins so that it can create FOMO again to get a better start for next year.

Questat

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Quote from: pawanjain on May 26, 2020, 05:22:09 AM

This happens from time to time. I remember the transaction fees were huge in 2017 in the ICO era and the bitcoin blockchain was mostly congested during those days. But it's not that you have to mandatorily pay the high fees. You can still manage to make transactions with low fees but will have to wait patiently for the transaction to confirm. This is a temporary thing I guess and soon the fees will come back to normal.

That was the time that people don't really care since they are making money, the market was in bull run that time, people are coming in due to FOMO so the fee wasn't a big issue, it's different this time as only bitcoin rises but it wasn't stable, it only had some hype for awhile, back to normal now.

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Quote from: Finestream on May 24, 2020, 07:06:41 AM

I have observed recently that the transaction fee for bitcoin transfers has significantly increase, I was wondering if this would help bitcoin to grow further if people are suffering from high fees while miners are doubling their income, is this the result of the halving we have been anticipating?

This is just another common occurrence in the Bitcoin network...whenever there is an uptick in volume of transactions we can expect also an increase in fees...more like the law on supply and demand in action. Fortunately, things will eventually subside and will be normal so that fees can be acceptable again. The recent halving actually means less income for miners as they are getting their money not really on fees.

pawanjain

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This happens from time to time. I remember the transaction fees were huge in 2017 in the ICO era and the bitcoin blockchain was mostly congested during those days. But it's not that you have to mandatorily pay the high fees. You can still manage to make transactions with low fees but will have to wait patiently for the transaction to confirm. This is a temporary thing I guess and soon the fees will come back to normal.

stompix

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Quote from: Betwrong on May 25, 2020, 11:15:32 AM

I'm personally surprised that blocks with lees number of transactions are getting higher fee rewards, but that's how it is.

Full blocks with fewer transactions mean wither a large number of inputs or output, since in this time no normal user is consolidating his wallet those mostly come from exchanges doing their payouts or moving their coins, and since for them time is essential and users already pay for these fees they afford to pay more. For example, one of my deposit waited for 12 hours before being confirmed at 10sat/b but in the next blocks the exchange consolidated some 30-40 deposits and moved them with a fee of 50sat/b, more than triple what it would have taken to confirm it anyway.

Quote from: kemoglo on May 25, 2020, 02:44:08 PM

I got sent about $500 with 4 sats/byte, it took a whole week to clear, but it cleared! Low fee transactions are definitely still possible, just manage your expectations for clearing times

For private stuff yeah, but you can't run a business like that.
Imagine a gambling site or exchange on which both deposits and withdrawals would take a week, nobody would use it.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: Finestream on May 25, 2020, 03:56:48 AM

Yes, I am talking with the price because I was thinking that if users will shift to other coins due to the high transaction fee of bitcoin, that will not help on our goal to increase the adoption, I am mainly taking here about the future of bitcoin because I am concern about it, but with your explanation guys and my experience now, I think I can say that the fee was back to normal, I was just surprise that time and that article I read added it so I was able to make this thread and ask for the opinion of the people here.

There's a paradox called "no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded", which perfectly illustrates the situation with fees and concern like yours that people will switch to other coins. If people would start switching away from Bitcoin, then fees would go down, and the rest wouldn't have a reason to switch.

But there's a lot of other factors too. Most of the volume can be attributed to traders and not people buying things, so obviously traders can't switch away from Bitcoin. Also switching to other coins isn't a good decision, fees is not everything, there's also network security, price stability, future forecast and so on, and Bitcoin is far superior to alts in those fields.

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Quote from: bitmover on May 24, 2020, 07:17:49 AM

Fees are high because volatility is too high. A lot of traders are sending bitcoin to and out exchanges... this always happens.

But you can still make transactions with low fees. I made a transaction recently with 10 sat/byte that was confirmed in a few hours. You just need to be patient.

Miners are not making a lot of money due to halving. Fees are just a small part of the reward:

look this block for example
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/0000000000000000000e64f2f8a06ffeb03cb4a597fdcb11f43ee9bf16decbc3

Block Reward
6.25000000 BTC
Fee Reward
0.13771274 BTC

I got sent about $500 with 4 sats/byte, it took a whole week to clear, but it cleared! Low fee transactions are definitely still possible, just manage your expectations for clearing times

Topic: Miners are happy, while we suffer? (Read 564 times)