Thank you for the well researched post! These are becoming a rare thing on these forums.
I would like to add that the damages incurred can be very difficult to prove when a firm delivery date isn't specified. So unless the buyer actually purchased another product to cover lack of delivery I don't see how someone would be able to prove damage. It's also my understanding that this purchase would have to be effectively mandated by lack of delivery rather than a choice made by the buyer. The example would be a contract to purchase flour (the buyer runs a bakery) and when the seller doesn't deliver the baker would have to get expedited delivery of flour from another source.
Topic: Miners, Consumer Protections (UCC), and Pre-orders - page 7. (Read 6923 times)
Hello Miners and other interested Parties:)
So I spent about 30 hours here and on some legal forums trying to understand what the actual rights of miners who pre-order hardware.
I was very frustrated trying to get to the bottom of what really is and is not a right of person purchasing through pre-orders. I really believe it's important to know your rights and assess your risks properly. So I decided to share this for others to learn and discuss. I am not a lawyer and this should not be construed to be legal advice. The purpose of this thread is to spawn discussion and to educate consumers so they may properly deal with vendors and understand liabilities when doing so. This is not meant express a complete tome of information or replace the need for counsel (In fact I highly suggest if you are in a legal situation you immediate retain counsel).
This thread is NOT here to demean, defame, or otherwise discuss specific people or entities.
Please help me to develop and correct any information is here. I enjoy the interaction and education
So let's jump in here:
Your ready to spend a few thousand (or tens of thousands) dollars on some mining hardware? You really need to make sure you understand your risks before risking hard earned BTC.
What covers the consumer when doing online pre-orders?
There are the terms and conditions of the sale and then there is implied warranty.
Terms and Conditions are extremely important to understand when spending large amount of money. They can dictate a lot of rights in the absence of a formal contract. Please read them.
Implied warranty covers a basic set of assurances regarding commercial and private trade. It is perhaps one of the most important laws you need to wrap your head around. Wikipedia covers it nicely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty
This point forward will cover what I've learned about the United States laws covering Implied Warranty. These conditions are unified in a federal code referred to as UCC(Uniform Commercial Code):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code
This provides a framework that is implemented in each state's localized law:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uniform/ucc.html
Generally speaking, my current understanding is that, when pursuing consumer protections claims, it's filed in the state of the business itself. (can anybody confirm?) It's important to read and understand the protections of your own state and the state of entity you are doing business with. Things get even more difficult when doing international trade. Anybody that can offer insight on this would be awesome. I imagine there would be very little cost effective means to enforce any agreement.
There are some terms I ran across that might not be fully understood by the layperson when understanding your rights. For this part I will pick on Missouri law (only because It's what I was researching while learning).
Some definitions of importance (huge credit for user drlukacs for being so kind as to walk me through most of this):
Where does "pre-order" qualify to be covered by UCC?
§ 2-309. Absence of Specific Time Provisions; Notice of Termination.
(1) The time for shipment or delivery or any other action under a contract if not provided in this Article or agreed upon shall be a reasonable time.
(2) If the contract provides for successive performances but is indefinite in duration, it is valid for a reasonable time but unless otherwise agreed may be terminated at any time by either party.
(3) Termination of a contract by one party except on the happening of an agreed event requires that reasonable notification be received by the other party and an agreement dispensing with notification is invalid if its operation would be unconscionable. A term specifying standards for the nature and timing of notice is enforceable if the standards are not manifestly unreasonable.
If you would like to jump to the beginning of that discussion https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2288560
Additional article on Buyer and Seller Obligations to consider: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Seller's+Obligations
I will do my best to keep this updated.
So I spent about 30 hours here and on some legal forums trying to understand what the actual rights of miners who pre-order hardware.
I was very frustrated trying to get to the bottom of what really is and is not a right of person purchasing through pre-orders. I really believe it's important to know your rights and assess your risks properly. So I decided to share this for others to learn and discuss. I am not a lawyer and this should not be construed to be legal advice. The purpose of this thread is to spawn discussion and to educate consumers so they may properly deal with vendors and understand liabilities when doing so. This is not meant express a complete tome of information or replace the need for counsel (In fact I highly suggest if you are in a legal situation you immediate retain counsel).
This thread is NOT here to demean, defame, or otherwise discuss specific people or entities.
Please help me to develop and correct any information is here. I enjoy the interaction and education
So let's jump in here:
Your ready to spend a few thousand (or tens of thousands) dollars on some mining hardware? You really need to make sure you understand your risks before risking hard earned BTC.
What covers the consumer when doing online pre-orders?
There are the terms and conditions of the sale and then there is implied warranty.
Terms and Conditions are extremely important to understand when spending large amount of money. They can dictate a lot of rights in the absence of a formal contract. Please read them.
Implied warranty covers a basic set of assurances regarding commercial and private trade. It is perhaps one of the most important laws you need to wrap your head around. Wikipedia covers it nicely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty
This point forward will cover what I've learned about the United States laws covering Implied Warranty. These conditions are unified in a federal code referred to as UCC(Uniform Commercial Code):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code
This provides a framework that is implemented in each state's localized law:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uniform/ucc.html
Generally speaking, my current understanding is that, when pursuing consumer protections claims, it's filed in the state of the business itself. (can anybody confirm?) It's important to read and understand the protections of your own state and the state of entity you are doing business with. Things get even more difficult when doing international trade. Anybody that can offer insight on this would be awesome. I imagine there would be very little cost effective means to enforce any agreement.
There are some terms I ran across that might not be fully understood by the layperson when understanding your rights. For this part I will pick on Missouri law (only because It's what I was researching while learning).
Some definitions of importance (huge credit for user drlukacs for being so kind as to walk me through most of this):
Where does "pre-order" qualify to be covered by UCC?
§ 2-309. Absence of Specific Time Provisions; Notice of Termination.
(1) The time for shipment or delivery or any other action under a contract if not provided in this Article or agreed upon shall be a reasonable time.
(2) If the contract provides for successive performances but is indefinite in duration, it is valid for a reasonable time but unless otherwise agreed may be terminated at any time by either party.
(3) Termination of a contract by one party except on the happening of an agreed event requires that reasonable notification be received by the other party and an agreement dispensing with notification is invalid if its operation would be unconscionable. A term specifying standards for the nature and timing of notice is enforceable if the standards are not manifestly unreasonable.
If you would like to jump to the beginning of that discussion https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2288560
Additional article on Buyer and Seller Obligations to consider: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Seller's+Obligations
I will do my best to keep this updated.
Jump to: