Miners should Start a Union - page 2.

troleybüs

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Quote from: Sakarias-Corporation on June 09, 2015, 12:58:32 PM

imagine if the TOP 5 mining farms (or maybe 10-30?) would demand to sell coins for 10-20% higher then todays value.

How can they do that? Price is created in the market. They can't sell for higher when market decides the Bitcoin price, they can only decrease the market price. You can't manipulate market price when the demand is at the same rate.

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Quote from: oryeger on November 28, 2015, 05:03:50 PM

I wonder if they hodl their bits will the demand for bitcoin cause the price go up or the current bitcoin in circulation is enough to satisfy demand.

Theoretically it is possible, but in practice you can't be sure that no one will start selling their coins when the price is pretty high in their opinion. It's almost impossible to control even your own greed let alone a greed of someone else.

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Quote from: oryeger on November 28, 2015, 05:03:50 PM

I wonder if they hodl their bits will the demand for bitcoin cause the price go up or the current bitcoin in circulation is enough to satisfy demand.

Eventually the holders will outpace the buyers/sellers, it would be just a matter of time.
However how do you round up the farms?

oryeger

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I wonder if they hodl their bits will the demand for bitcoin cause the price go up or the current bitcoin in circulation is enough to satisfy demand.

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Quote from: enthus on November 27, 2015, 09:08:58 AM

i think that would defeat purpose of decentralization and cause dictating of value. I don't like the idea.

Exactly! But we are so used to the "centralized consciousness" so we can't imagine how even Bitcoin, a decentralized thing by it's nature, would work without at least a bit of centralization. )

enthus

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i think that would defeat purpose of decentralization and cause dictating of value. I don't like the idea.

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Quote from: p3yot33at3r on June 09, 2015, 02:11:01 PM

A Union...... Cheesy

You gonna go on strike? Cheesy

Won't Work?
You could turn your miners off, but then Bitmain would just keep theirs on.
Unless we make a worldwide strike agains bitcoin... Won't Work?

notlist3d

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Sakarias-Corporation on June 09, 2015, 12:58:32 PM

We demand higher price. We no sell coins !

seriously its worth thinking of haha

imagine if the TOP 5 mining farms (or maybe 10-30?) would demand to sell coins for 10-20% higher then todays value.

If the price remains high due to the nonselling of the top 5 mining farms, smaller farms will be happier to sell at the inflated price.

This has already been discussed. A union will not work here as BTC is a freemarket not a boss/workplace we can bargain with.

On price it would take owning enough hash be able to not sell and effect price. Is someone did this I think it would hurt bitcoins trust. But as you mention top 5 farms.... they will not stop selling. They are making profits.

I think we really should let this thread die. But it keeps poping back up.

QuintLeo

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Can't unionise when you're not an employee.

What you want is much more like a consortium - but unless you get most or all of the big farms to buy into it, you have zero chance of success.

jonnybravo0311

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That's exactly right. Unions exist to provide bargaining power to individuals who on their own don't have any, so that the individuals can have their rights represented against another powerful entity. In the case of BTC, there simply is no powerful entity against which we could unionize. As somebody a few posts up pointed out, it's not like we can picket outside a mining farm somewhere. There's no entity controlling the price, so we can't unionize against anyone to demand the price be changed.

notlist3d

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Quote from: jonnybravo0311 on November 23, 2015, 05:03:26 PM

What is the premise of the union? Who would the union stand up against? What exactly are you suggesting here? If the top mining farms refuse to mine coin until the price rises, then eventually the difficulty would simply adjust to match the new, lower network hash rate. If the top mining farms just refused to sell the coins they mined, I suppose they could eventually make enough of a dent in the supply/demand curves to influence the price of the coins in circulation... but not without going out of business first because they aren't selling the coins they've mined.

Sorry, but the concept of the union here just doesn't fly.

I have asked twice on your second question. The whole point of a union is collective bargning against some company or someone.

You can't control free market such as value of BTC. Only way to do that is if you had the vast majority of BTC and only sold at a certain price..... but if 1 group or 1 person can do this it will kill BTC most likely.

I think this thread should be allowed to die. A union just does not fit in the mining area.

jonnybravo0311

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What is the premise of the union? Who would the union stand up against? What exactly are you suggesting here? If the top mining farms refuse to mine coin until the price rises, then eventually the difficulty would simply adjust to match the new, lower network hash rate. If the top mining farms just refused to sell the coins they mined, I suppose they could eventually make enough of a dent in the supply/demand curves to influence the price of the coins in circulation... but not without going out of business first because they aren't selling the coins they've mined.

Sorry, but the concept of the union here just doesn't fly.

alrachid

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lol "bitcoin, is below $1000 each, I am not working" ** stands outside Mcdonalds with picket sign demanding higher bitcoin prices**

Bitsaurus

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Well judging from how well Bitcoin Foundation is perceived nowadays I doubt a mining union would get much traction. Too many heads and too few legs.

LuckyYOU

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Quote from: Digit-0 on November 21, 2015, 08:00:11 AM

Quote from: Sakarias-Corporation on June 09, 2015, 12:58:32 PM

We demand higher price. We no sell coins !

seriously its worth thinking of haha

imagine if the TOP 5 mining farms (or maybe 10-30?) would demand to sell coins for 10-20% higher then todays value.

Well the problem is that miners are so important, i must agree with you about it, but miners are not "alone" in this big game, dont know if you understand me, so in the end, there is much more behind miners that need to consider if you want to "start a union"...

I dont think it will be possible, people have different needs...

Yeah and it is just not possible, to unite so many people from so many countries and timezones. Since there is no rewards, people would refuse or fail to show up when there are conferences etc.

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Quote from: Sakarias-Corporation on June 09, 2015, 12:58:32 PM

We demand higher price. We no sell coins !

seriously its worth thinking of haha

imagine if the TOP 5 mining farms (or maybe 10-30?) would demand to sell coins for 10-20% higher then todays value.

Well the problem is that miners are so important, i must agree with you about it, but miners are not "alone" in this big game, dont know if you understand me, so in the end, there is much more behind miners that need to consider if you want to "start a union"...

I dont think it will be possible, people have different needs...

gogxmagog

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Ad maiora!

If you desire the effects of unionization maybe you should take a closer look at the pools. Slush, p2pool and elegius all operate responsibly and consider the community as a whole at the same time as trying to give their members a good deal for their hash power.
If you are looking to see a cartel to artificially jack up the price of btc maybe you need to look into some sort of pyramid ponzi thing like MMM

People complain about btc getting a bad name from scammers but they can't scheme up enough scams and disreputable con games when it means they might personally benefit

I don't know what you're thinking OP but I don't like it

notlist3d

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Quote from: GriffinHeart on November 19, 2015, 11:50:27 AM

Well, there are special snowflakes around who won't abide by this. (Or they are just not aware of the union) Making the whole thing meaningless or but an irritation.
Not to mention that this could absolutely backfire and explode in everyone's faces if people just refuse to buy, exercise or even use cryptocurrency, including that the whole cryptocurrency scene has a generally "shady" image in modern day media. This needs more thought to it, not many of us are economists, so as a community we don't have a real estimate on what this can do.

It IS a good topic to think about though.

I still don't get how this is possible. Can someone explain if I'm missing something?

The flaws I see is we cannot do like oil and control majority... and set price. So really no way to control majority you would have to own so much that the other miners were small and would not hurt your set price.... but price fixing is not really going to ever happen on it.

Ok now back to who are you making a union to bargain with? Whole point of a union is bargaining power.... when a free market set's BTC value and not one person. I just don't see how you will bargain to get what you want.

Am I missing something?

GriffinHeart

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Hello there!

Well, there are special snowflakes around who won't abide by this. (Or they are just not aware of the union) Making the whole thing meaningless or but an irritation.
Not to mention that this could absolutely backfire and explode in everyone's faces if people just refuse to buy, exercise or even use cryptocurrency, including that the whole cryptocurrency scene has a generally "shady" image in modern day media. This needs more thought to it, not many of us are economists, so as a community we don't have a real estimate on what this can do.

It IS a good topic to think about though.

notlist3d

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Quote from: HarryKPeters on November 18, 2015, 04:39:33 PM

A don't oppose the idea, but think of the concept of bitcoin, anonymous. Having unions means regular meetings etc. Not sure if most miners would agree on that mate.

But who are you going to have negotiations with? A union goes up against a company or such and with a big percent of workforce try to get a certain goal.

With BTC there is no big boss setting the price of coins. It is set by a open market. Unless you control the vast majority of bitcoin mining... which would defeat bitcoin.. it would be impossible to do. A union just does not fit.

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