SPEND $10K TO BUILD A SYSTEM THAT WILL MINE 700 BTC/DAY WITH BREAK-EVEN TIME OF 12 YEARS
OMG YOUR TWO $110 5830'S WILL TAKE 60 DAYS TO PAY OFF! MINING IS NO LONGER PROFITABLE
Topic: Mining at a loss: Insurmountable Problem in the near future or am I mistaken? - page 2. (Read 6274 times)
July 30, 2011, 12:14:46 AM
July 30, 2011, 12:13:07 AM
I love it when people wait until mining is finally profitable to post these "zomg mining is no longer profitable" threads.
July 29, 2011, 11:55:03 PM
Don't worry guys, a new breed of hardware is on the way 
What I would like is something in the form factor of a heating element which could be threaded into a water tank. A couple of high current wires, and tough cable with a female RJ45 is all I want to see. Actually, throw in a serial port on the cable as well maybe. The whole thing should operate at something north of 100 C and shut down automatically if it got much hotter than that.
Can you do it?
July 29, 2011, 10:24:16 PM
Don't worry guys, a new breed of hardware is on the way
July 29, 2011, 09:40:41 PM
Not only should this thread be in "Mining", but there is the overlooked aspect of miners whose gear is completely paid off, so they don't really care as much about margin compression from difficulty or price.
Anyway, I love the delicious irony of threads started by people who say they have no vested interest, but presume to tell everyone exactly how things are going to be. Is it just an ego thing?
Anyway, I love the delicious irony of threads started by people who say they have no vested interest, but presume to tell everyone exactly how things are going to be. Is it just an ego thing?
Seriously. I am also blown away that people consider the power bill to be a huge hindrance to someone who is established and employed. $100 a month is about the cheapest hobby you can find, short of picking up shinies you find on the street. Makes me think that there might be a huge chunk of users here who haven't entered the real world yet.
July 29, 2011, 09:14:01 PM
I will keep my mining rigs running no matter what. I'll completely cover the electricity costs if needed (provided I have a job to pay) at full loss.
That is an awesome attitude, and is the same thing I do. Sure, it may not be considered profitable at every moment, but I believe in the technology and I believe prices will rise.
July 29, 2011, 08:58:23 PM
Not only should this thread be in "Mining", but there is the overlooked aspect of miners whose gear is completely paid off, so they don't really care as much about margin compression from difficulty or price.
Anyway, I love the delicious irony of threads started by people who say they have no vested interest, but presume to tell everyone exactly how things are going to be. Is it just an ego thing?
Anyway, I love the delicious irony of threads started by people who say they have no vested interest, but presume to tell everyone exactly how things are going to be. Is it just an ego thing?
July 29, 2011, 08:44:01 PM
I will keep my mining rigs running no matter what. I'll completely cover the electricity costs if needed (provided I have a job to pay) at full loss.
So, there is no cost problem for me personally such as pointed out by the OP.
We must do something to change/replace this central bank monetary system that is destroying the western world. If bitcoin fails, then something similar but better must be created to replace it. Bitcoin may not be the best possible thing, but please tell me a better avenue available. Bitcoin is way more important than any monetary benefit, at least to me anyway.
So, there is no cost problem for me personally such as pointed out by the OP.
We must do something to change/replace this central bank monetary system that is destroying the western world. If bitcoin fails, then something similar but better must be created to replace it. Bitcoin may not be the best possible thing, but please tell me a better avenue available. Bitcoin is way more important than any monetary benefit, at least to me anyway.
July 29, 2011, 08:35:53 PM
niemivh you are right, mining will not be profitable in the future. Bitcoin is the only commodity in history that has a GUARANTEED REDUCTION in rewards by 50% every few years until returns drop to ZERO. Then you are depending on transaction fees which have no guarantees that they will be significant.
Yes this is right, but near future is a mischarecterization. Weak security followed by sabotage followed by collapse will take decades to come to pass. 2nd mischarecterization is hardware quality. Much more important will be what you are paying for electricity. Some people have it for free. Others as low as 5 us cents per kwh. These people will be the medium term miners.
Right now i am still mining. Bubble guarenteed to burst in decades can remain inflated for decades.
People might see the light with regards to proof of stake before the disaster occurs. Then the bubble would not need to pop even in decades.
I will admit the conditions for survival in the multi-decade outlook are specific, but it is possible. If we get enough transaction volume transaction fees of less than 1/10th of a cent per transaction can add up to many times the current network security.
July 29, 2011, 08:09:58 PM
Granted. I'm out of here for this and other reasons.
Opposing viewpoints are not tolerated on a forum that pretends to promote 'freedom' and 'liberty'. Only freedom and liberty to chant the dogma into an echo chamber of other ignorant drones who literally have never read any history book that didn't massage their already preconceived notions.
The incredulous nature of the average user here is starting to rub off on me, I'm off to greener pastures.
To those who will listen take it or leave it.
We'll see who is right.
I agree that the forum is a troll's nest, but what is your end game with starting this thread? Did you think that everyone would be like, "Yeah, dude, you're totally right. We're all out!" or what?
You sure used a lot of words to say 'I hate you guys I'm not playing anymore!'.
July 29, 2011, 08:07:55 PM
As we've seen it only takes someone with about 4% of the supply of BTC to completely crash the price to $0.01, that is the kind of downward pressure compounded with the lack of liquidity that can be brought to bear.
When did we see this?
The MtGox hack was a sell off of a single account with about 4% of the entire BTC volume. This isn't a point to say that this was a legitimate trade or anything like that, but it did show that there wasn't enough of a countervailing force (liquidity) to absorb that sell off.
Leads me to believe that if any other person with 100k in BTC were to even sell it off via a darkpool it would cost more downward pressure in the market than we are already experiencing.
I thought they had fictitious bitcoins in MTGOX's system. They basically credited themselves a gazillion bitcoins that didn't really exist and sold them.
July 29, 2011, 07:50:51 PM
niemivh you are right, mining will not be profitable in the future. Bitcoin is the only commodity in history that has a GUARANTEED REDUCTION in rewards by 50% every few years until returns drop to ZERO. Then you are depending on transaction fees which have no guarantees that they will be significant.
Yes this is right, but near future is a mischarecterization. Weak security followed by sabotage followed by collapse will take decades to come to pass. 2nd mischarecterization is hardware quality. Much more important will be what you are paying for electricity. Some people have it for free. Others as low as 5 us cents per kwh. These people will be the medium term miners.
Right now i am still mining. Bubble guarenteed to burst in decades can remain inflated for decades.
People might see the light with regards to proof of stake before the disaster occurs. Then the bubble would not need to pop even in decades.
July 29, 2011, 07:40:23 PM
Granted. I'm out of here for this and other reasons.
Opposing viewpoints are not tolerated on a forum that pretends to promote 'freedom' and 'liberty'. Only freedom and liberty to chant the dogma into an echo chamber of other ignorant drones who literally have never read any history book that didn't massage their already preconceived notions.
The incredulous nature of the average user here is starting to rub off on me, I'm off to greener pastures.
To those who will listen take it or leave it.
We'll see who is right.
Look i know we seem impolite, but we have heard this again and again and again and again from almost day 1. It gets bothersome after the 100th time and after the 1000th time we get a little short tempered. When something new is brought to the table we debate and come to our own conclusions, you have brought nothing new to the table, your just rehashing a point we have all heard 10 times today alone. We sound like an echo chamber simply because we have already debated this with the guy before you and the guy before him and so on and so forth. I apologize on behalf of this form but i really cant blame them for being like this after dealing with the exact same questions brought up every 10 minutes each time the author believing that he was the first one to see this terrible problem, and reiterating that we are en echo chamber simply because we reached a consensus the first time someone asked this question.
July 29, 2011, 07:16:27 PM
Hopefully people who don't need their rigs any more will sell them...at a discount Actually I did seriously considered this when I decided _not_ to build a rig. And I suspected that a ramp-up in the manufacture of cards may overshoot demand.
I use a space heater sometimes. I may as well be mining due to the nature of the laws of thermodynamics, but a space heater is currently much cheaper than a mining rig. (Then there is the noise problem I suppose.)
Actually I did seriously considered this when I decided _not_ to build a rig. And I suspected that a ramp-up in the manufacture of cards may overshoot demand.I use a space heater sometimes. I may as well be mining due to the nature of the laws of thermodynamics, but a space heater is currently much cheaper than a mining rig. (Then there is the noise problem I suppose.)
July 29, 2011, 06:40:04 PM
Granted. I'm out of here for this and other reasons.
Opposing viewpoints are not tolerated on a forum that pretends to promote 'freedom' and 'liberty'. Only freedom and liberty to chant the dogma into an echo chamber of other ignorant drones who literally have never read any history book that didn't massage their already preconceived notions.
The incredulous nature of the average user here is starting to rub off on me, I'm off to greener pastures.
To those who will listen take it or leave it.
We'll see who is right.
July 29, 2011, 06:09:53 PM
July 29, 2011, 06:05:20 PM
dood!
you sold all your btc according to your post.
and you think btc is fail.
so stfu already and leave.
July 29, 2011, 05:46:18 PM
Aren't addressing the large buy-in cost that exists now, will increase past the point of Moore's law soon, and also that this was not the case for the past 2 years.
Yes it was. Before GPU mining came along, in order to increase your hashing power, you had to buy more CPUs, which meant an additional mobo/PSU/memory/etc. And back then top of the line Core i7s were (still are) more expensive than 6990s... yet people still did it.
July 29, 2011, 05:44:33 PM
As we've seen it only takes someone with about 4% of the supply of BTC to completely crash the price to $0.01, that is the kind of downward pressure compounded with the lack of liquidity that can be brought to bear.
When did we see this?
No idea. I'm guessing some time in 2009?
We didn't...
As we've seen it only takes someone with about 4% of the supply of BTC to completely crash the price to $0.01, that is the kind of downward pressure compounded with the lack of liquidity that can be brought to bear.
When did we see this?
The MtGox hack was a sell off of a single account with about 4% of the entire BTC volume. This isn't a point to say that this was a legitimate trade or anything like that, but it did show that there wasn't enough of a countervailing force (liquidity) to absorb that sell off.
Leads me to believe that if any other person with 100k in BTC were to even sell it off via a darkpool it would cost more downward pressure in the market than we are already experiencing.
Nope. Why don't you read up on that one again?
July 29, 2011, 05:43:40 PM
As we've seen it only takes someone with about 4% of the supply of BTC to completely crash the price to $0.01, that is the kind of downward pressure compounded with the lack of liquidity that can be brought to bear.
When did we see this?
The MtGox hack was a sell off of a single account with about 4% of the entire BTC volume. This isn't a point to say that this was a legitimate trade or anything like that, but it did show that there wasn't enough of a countervailing force (liquidity) to absorb that sell off.
Leads me to believe that if any other person with 100k in BTC were to even sell it off via a darkpool it would cost more downward pressure in the market than we are already experiencing.
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