Topic: Mining Contracts (Read 12268 times)
Thanks. I don't expect you to sell a contract for less than it mines. I'm now trying to understand why someone would pay more for a contract than it mines. For example what benefits would I get if I paid someone 1 BTC for a contract that mines 0.5 BTC?
Because they are
a) noobs that can't do math right
b) pay in cash as a way to get btc because for some reason they can't normally?
I don't know, its a mystery.The short 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week contracts are pretty much a scam hoping to find suckers. As been mentioned they won't sell contracts for less then what they would make mining themselves... any more the customer is pretty much losing money unless for some reason they can't get BTC any other way. The only other reason is buyer have such high power costs or something.
The longer term contracts though can and SHOULD be selling for less then can be mined. The reason why they would do this is the exact same reason why miner producers sell their miners... to get a majority of the profits out of the machine and move on to the next one. Sure they will give up 20-30% of expected profits... but when you are getting 70% instantly and can turn around and do it as fast as you can...
Thus each miner when created is essentially already worth X BTC the second it is made. The maker gets probably 50-80% of it, the buyer can choose to use it themselves to squeeze every last BTC out of it or resell/contract it basically to make a little money buy the next one... rinse and repeat.
Basiclly it is a way to get instant capital out of your investment right away to reuse rather then waiting.
I offer 1MH/s for 0.0046 Btc per day, lowest on market Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512660.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512660.new#new
What does everyone think of a cloud mining service that guaranteed you would make your BTC back plus a percent. I don't know what the percent is yet. I just thought of the idea. Basically the contracts do not have an expiration date. After the contract pays its guaranteed percent you were given the option to repurchase. This gives miners a guaranteed profit and gives the service an easy way to finance hardware so that it can mine for itself.
It's not that easy from an ownership perspective. Your profit has to exceed what you would normally make mining, otherwise what's the point? You also have maintenance costs that you incur (power, etc) and you either pass that on to the customer through the price per share as a percentage or you pay for it yourself out of your pocket. So you have to set a price that A) covers costs (equipment + maintenance) B) is competitive and C) allows the contract owner to make a profit (contract earnings - maintenance/pool fees/etc) - cost of contract.
What does everyone think of a cloud mining service that guaranteed you would make your BTC back plus a percent. I don't know what the percent is yet. I just thought of the idea. Basically the contracts do not have an expiration date. After the contract pays its guaranteed percent you were given the option to repurchase. This gives miners a guaranteed profit and gives the service an easy way to finance hardware so that it can mine for itself.
As a seller of mining contracts ...
As a seller of mining contracts, could you please tell me why:
1. If you sell the contract for less than the miner will mine, then wouldn't you just keep the mined coins instead?
2. If you sell the contract for more than the miner will mine, then why would someone buy it?
The thing is find a price that people in the market are willing to pay (trust me that's harder than it sounds.Its trial and error) for a contract.Once you set a price,advertise it a lot through social media like I do on twitter which will explain how I got a few 1 week contracts sold so far and hopefully once my gridseed asic arrives I can sell even more contracts.
Thanks. I don't expect you to sell a contract for less than it mines. I'm now trying to understand why someone would pay more for a contract than it mines. For example what benefits would I get if I paid someone 1 BTC for a contract that mines 0.5 BTC?
As a seller of mining contracts ...
As a seller of mining contracts, could you please tell me why:
1. If you sell the contract for less than the miner will mine, then wouldn't you just keep the mined coins instead?
2. If you sell the contract for more than the miner will mine, then why would someone buy it?
The thing is find a price that people in the market are willing to pay (trust me that's harder than it sounds.Its trial and error) for a contract.Once you set a price,advertise it a lot through social media like I do on twitter which will explain how I got a few 1 week contracts sold so far and hopefully once my gridseed asic arrives I can sell even more contracts.
As a seller of mining contracts ...
As a seller of mining contracts, could you please tell me why:
1. If you sell the contract for less than the miner will mine, then wouldn't you just keep the mined coins instead?
2. If you sell the contract for more than the miner will mine, then why would someone buy it?
As a seller of mining contracts (scrypt now since no ones buying an Ant Miner contract off me now,they used to) I can say that it's not always easy to make a sale and if your electric costs are higher,your prices will have to reflect this and some people will just look elsewhere (since people with lower electric costs can afford to charge less).
I think mining contracts are a good way to make the most of existing equipment (as a GPU miner at the moment).I do think the whole selling point is convenience for the consumer so of course prices will be higher (but that makes sense) and as more newbies/people in a hurry start getting involved with mining,the demand for these contracts will only keep increasing as ordering equipment,setting it up,testing it and maintaining it will look inconvenient compared to just renting hashpower.As more people move away from wanting to buy their own equipment,it'll force a change in the mining contracts market (better pricing/service and reduced running costs equals more business).
I'd love to get more business but it's best to learn a few things first about best practice before expecting things to just happen (I've already sold a fair number of them now over the last 2 months so I'm happy,could still sell off a lot more though)
I think mining contracts are a good way to make the most of existing equipment (as a GPU miner at the moment).I do think the whole selling point is convenience for the consumer so of course prices will be higher (but that makes sense) and as more newbies/people in a hurry start getting involved with mining,the demand for these contracts will only keep increasing as ordering equipment,setting it up,testing it and maintaining it will look inconvenient compared to just renting hashpower.As more people move away from wanting to buy their own equipment,it'll force a change in the mining contracts market (better pricing/service and reduced running costs equals more business).
I'd love to get more business but it's best to learn a few things first about best practice before expecting things to just happen (I've already sold a fair number of them now over the last 2 months so I'm happy,could still sell off a lot more though)
I've spent some time as well looking at virtual mining...
The outcome basically was :
The best offers are basically the cleanest "dirty shirts", meaning they do seem 100% legit but hardly offer anything close to ROI.
cex.io right now is basically costing you very roughly 50% of your investment based on ~50% ROI at their BTC/GHs price of ~0.074BTC (achieving those 50% in the end requires you to run the purchased GHs nearly until the output becomes miniscule). These figures are compensated by the GHs resale price you might achieve (which we only know will be low if you run it for >3 months). If you're lucky, you make a tiny profit in the end (if they can maintain the inflated GHs prices) but it's unlikely as it depends mostly on BTC valuation. The business model seems to work better for some people trading (presumably with Bots).
cex.io are the only winners in this game. Plus, they can and have changed the rules at their will (fees). You on the other hand don't have this flexibility, as you're on the receiving side only.
Everything not rented to virtual mining is running for themselfes at true cost, everything else is rented out for the mentioned surplus GHs price + fees. Win-Win for them, not so much for the customer.
....looks all sexy but doesn't add up as profitable for mining. Still better than EBay deals though, that must be said and in case of complete lack of alternatives - one might take a shot at it.
All the others I found had some rules or fee/business models that simply tilt the profit even much more in their direction than yours, they're made to look shiny but the small print clearly stinks to heaven.
Most methods seem based on the (apparently lucrative) assumption that customers either are incapable or can't be bothered with math. Most will agree especially beginners take some to get their research package complete and aquire a valid overview of what's out there & how it works.
Everything I found on EBay basically were blatant rip-offs that hope to catch a newbie wrong-footed.
My conclusion for now is to avoid any middle men as they only want your best : your BTC. They only seem to vary at the level of aggressiveness with which they try to skim it off your wallet.
I'd rather calculate my own hardware and take my risks.
Plus, the old wisdom if you can't touch it, you don't own it still holds true. Bad things could happen to any of these virtual mining services at anytime, while I at home would still have all the options & the hardware.
Additionally, I'd miss my tiny mining rig
PS.
If there's a legit virtual mining gem actually realizing acceptable ROI for its customers, I simply haven't found it.
Other than that, it looks all like "shark tank with nice window dressing" to me, at times it seems just about everything BTC related is. Harsh world out there, never act without using a calculator and lots of research + common sense out there.
The outcome basically was :
The best offers are basically the cleanest "dirty shirts", meaning they do seem 100% legit but hardly offer anything close to ROI.
cex.io right now is basically costing you very roughly 50% of your investment based on ~50% ROI at their BTC/GHs price of ~0.074BTC (achieving those 50% in the end requires you to run the purchased GHs nearly until the output becomes miniscule). These figures are compensated by the GHs resale price you might achieve (which we only know will be low if you run it for >3 months). If you're lucky, you make a tiny profit in the end (if they can maintain the inflated GHs prices) but it's unlikely as it depends mostly on BTC valuation. The business model seems to work better for some people trading (presumably with Bots).
cex.io are the only winners in this game. Plus, they can and have changed the rules at their will (fees). You on the other hand don't have this flexibility, as you're on the receiving side only.
Everything not rented to virtual mining is running for themselfes at true cost, everything else is rented out for the mentioned surplus GHs price + fees. Win-Win for them, not so much for the customer.
....looks all sexy but doesn't add up as profitable for mining. Still better than EBay deals though, that must be said and in case of complete lack of alternatives - one might take a shot at it.
All the others I found had some rules or fee/business models that simply tilt the profit even much more in their direction than yours, they're made to look shiny but the small print clearly stinks to heaven.
Most methods seem based on the (apparently lucrative) assumption that customers either are incapable or can't be bothered with math. Most will agree especially beginners take some to get their research package complete and aquire a valid overview of what's out there & how it works.
Everything I found on EBay basically were blatant rip-offs that hope to catch a newbie wrong-footed.
My conclusion for now is to avoid any middle men as they only want your best : your BTC. They only seem to vary at the level of aggressiveness with which they try to skim it off your wallet.
I'd rather calculate my own hardware and take my risks.
Plus, the old wisdom if you can't touch it, you don't own it still holds true. Bad things could happen to any of these virtual mining services at anytime, while I at home would still have all the options & the hardware.
Additionally, I'd miss my tiny mining rig
PS.
If there's a legit virtual mining gem actually realizing acceptable ROI for its customers, I simply haven't found it.
Other than that, it looks all like "shark tank with nice window dressing" to me, at times it seems just about everything BTC related is. Harsh world out there, never act without using a calculator and lots of research + common sense out there.
Thank you for putting this into words so well. Wish I could vote it up!
I found this thread out of curiosity. I've been seeing more and more mining contracts popping up on craigslist, so I searched on the forum wondering who in the world would buy into such a thing? FalconFly puts it plainly: "wrong-footed" newbies. Anyone who does the math and research can see that there simply is no mining contract that can beat buying the currency directly. And if one does in the future, the contract had better not be longer than a month because remember they sell by the GH not BTC.
well is not to reccomand... they'll start in april...2014
reccomand ? Yeah anyway it's the same as buying from Cointerra direct, you would still have to wait until April but you just don't have to front so much money and get it all on your own.
(considering running costs) Paying an extra £40-£50 per 100Gh/s for a year of hosted mining with monthly payouts isn't a rough deal.
Unless it's a scam! Due to the fact I run it with my Brother in law and can categorically say it's not, I'd definitely 'reccomand' !
well is not to reccomand... they'll start in april...2014
Does anyone have experience with bitservers.biz ?
I'm not sure if they are a scam or not?
I'm not sure if they are a scam or not?
I've spent some time as well looking at virtual mining...
The outcome basically was :
The best offers are basically the cleanest "dirty shirts", meaning they do seem 100% legit but hardly offer anything close to ROI.
cex.io right now is basically costing you very roughly 50% of your investment based on ~50% ROI at their BTC/GHs price of ~0.074BTC (achieving those 50% in the end requires you to run the purchased GHs nearly until the output becomes miniscule). These figures are compensated by the GHs resale price you might achieve (which we only know will be low if you run it for >3 months). If you're lucky, you make a tiny profit in the end (if they can maintain the inflated GHs prices) but it's unlikely as it depends mostly on BTC valuation. The business model seems to work better for some people trading (presumably with Bots).
cex.io are the only winners in this game. Plus, they can and have changed the rules at their will (fees). You on the other hand don't have this flexibility, as you're on the receiving side only.
Everything not rented to virtual mining is running for themselfes at true cost, everything else is rented out for the mentioned surplus GHs price + fees. Win-Win for them, not so much for the customer.
....looks all sexy but doesn't add up as profitable for mining. Still better than EBay deals though, that must be said and in case of complete lack of alternatives - one might take a shot at it.
All the others I found had some rules or fee/business models that simply tilt the profit even much more in their direction than yours, they're made to look shiny but the small print clearly stinks to heaven.
Most methods seem based on the (apparently lucrative) assumption that customers either are incapable or can't be bothered with math. Most will agree especially beginners take some to get their research package complete and aquire a valid overview of what's out there & how it works.
Everything I found on EBay basically were blatant rip-offs that hope to catch a newbie wrong-footed.
My conclusion for now is to avoid any middle men as they only want your best : your BTC. They only seem to vary at the level of aggressiveness with which they try to skim it off your wallet.
I'd rather calculate my own hardware and take my risks.
Plus, the old wisdom if you can't touch it, you don't own it still holds true. Bad things could happen to any of these virtual mining services at anytime, while I at home would still have all the options & the hardware.
Additionally, I'd miss my tiny mining rig
PS.
If there's a legit virtual mining gem actually realizing acceptable ROI for its customers, I simply haven't found it.
Other than that, it looks all like "shark tank with nice window dressing" to me, at times it seems just about everything BTC related is. Harsh world out there, never act without using a calculator and lots of research + common sense out there.
The outcome basically was :
The best offers are basically the cleanest "dirty shirts", meaning they do seem 100% legit but hardly offer anything close to ROI.
cex.io right now is basically costing you very roughly 50% of your investment based on ~50% ROI at their BTC/GHs price of ~0.074BTC (achieving those 50% in the end requires you to run the purchased GHs nearly until the output becomes miniscule). These figures are compensated by the GHs resale price you might achieve (which we only know will be low if you run it for >3 months). If you're lucky, you make a tiny profit in the end (if they can maintain the inflated GHs prices) but it's unlikely as it depends mostly on BTC valuation. The business model seems to work better for some people trading (presumably with Bots).
cex.io are the only winners in this game. Plus, they can and have changed the rules at their will (fees). You on the other hand don't have this flexibility, as you're on the receiving side only.
Everything not rented to virtual mining is running for themselfes at true cost, everything else is rented out for the mentioned surplus GHs price + fees. Win-Win for them, not so much for the customer.
....looks all sexy but doesn't add up as profitable for mining. Still better than EBay deals though, that must be said and in case of complete lack of alternatives - one might take a shot at it.
All the others I found had some rules or fee/business models that simply tilt the profit even much more in their direction than yours, they're made to look shiny but the small print clearly stinks to heaven.
Most methods seem based on the (apparently lucrative) assumption that customers either are incapable or can't be bothered with math. Most will agree especially beginners take some to get their research package complete and aquire a valid overview of what's out there & how it works.
Everything I found on EBay basically were blatant rip-offs that hope to catch a newbie wrong-footed.
My conclusion for now is to avoid any middle men as they only want your best : your BTC. They only seem to vary at the level of aggressiveness with which they try to skim it off your wallet.
I'd rather calculate my own hardware and take my risks.
Plus, the old wisdom if you can't touch it, you don't own it still holds true. Bad things could happen to any of these virtual mining services at anytime, while I at home would still have all the options & the hardware.
Additionally, I'd miss my tiny mining rig
PS.
If there's a legit virtual mining gem actually realizing acceptable ROI for its customers, I simply haven't found it.
Other than that, it looks all like "shark tank with nice window dressing" to me, at times it seems just about everything BTC related is. Harsh world out there, never act without using a calculator and lots of research + common sense out there.
I don't understand the value of the mining contracts on eBay. For example there is one that sells for $10 for 1 hour at 120GH/s. I would only earn $2.66 per hour mining bitcoins at 120GH/s with the current difficulty.
Why someone would buy this when they would loose money on it?
Why someone would buy this when they would loose money on it?
I don't understand any of the stuff on eBay involving cryptocurrencies. Like any cryptocurrency selling for 5x the price on exchanges. Some people say that the buyers are scammers and easily win any dispute but recently I've also read on these forums that this is not the case but people are just greedy/stupid and eager to buy anything... hard to say because I don't have personal experience with selling but I doubt it would be a very good idea, otherwise there should be people doing it.
I don't understand the value of the mining contracts on eBay. For example there is one that sells for $10 for 1 hour at 120GH/s. I would only earn $2.66 per hour mining bitcoins at 120GH/s with the current difficulty.
Why someone would buy this when they would loose money on it?
Why someone would buy this when they would loose money on it?
These guys selling these mining contracts on ebay must be making a killing at the prices they are selling them at...
but i wounder how many get charge backs after the contract is up
These guys selling these mining contracts on ebay must be making a killing at the prices they are selling them at...
Just wanted to add the bit mining company to the list
Started yesterday and happy with its ease of use. Entry point is not bad at .051btc.
Started yesterday and happy with its ease of use. Entry point is not bad at .051btc.
0.51 BTC per GH/s is better than cex.io, but it still costs more than you will mine in 4 years, especially with the 8% fee.
It looks to me like 0.051 BTC per GHS not 0.51. At 0.051 ROI has a chance of going positive in the second year. Of course that's dependent on assumptions which are highly subjective person to person. The real curious thing for me is to watch how the price of this will have to drop over time in order to remain viable, at least for people who do somewhat realistic calculations before investing. We've all seen (ebay) places where expectations are completely out of line with reality, so who knows, this may be selling pretty quickly. The other concern with any longer term investment is the stability of the holder. Currently I do not see the risk/reward being high enough to invest in something like this. If there was any chance that I could see a positive ROI in year one, or even doubling of my investment by year four, then it might be worth a small investment. As it is, there is no appeal here other than curiosity, which might get me to buy 1GHS from them, who knows.
I do disagree that this can be compared with cex.io. I think that looking at cex.io as a mining operation is not understanding the commodity market of GHS there. Today, especially one day before another significant difficulty change, I'd be stupid to spend 0.07 BTC for 1GHS, but I think it is reasonable to deposit 0.07 BTC short term for an instantly accruing interest. Long-term I'd be worried about the principle significantly declining in value.
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