Topic: Mining - is it really worth the effort? (Read 2044 times)

Another problem is the rising difficulty each month, soon it will be only 0.1 BTC even on a machine with 1Ghash power, unless BTC rise in value quickly, I don't see a bright future

Anyway this is fun, I just bought a second hand 5870 which now runs 400Mh/s and testing

According to the chart here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison

It's still behind a 5830 and 5850 for $/Mhash

not rly to be fair, you can build a decent rig with multiple 5770 cards,
you can stack up to 5 on a simple 700w psu,
given that your mobo can accomodate them ofc, (3 regular slots + 2 on pci-e x1 risers is standard, i think)
So you have a 1ghash mining rig with a relatively cheap psu (2x5830+5850 would require at least 850w to run properly OC'ed)

Last time i checked, 5770 was one of the best at $/Mhash and W/Mhash
And it is as low-end as it gets.

well its kinda true i was working with hd5850 not so good,

not i did a major upgrade and doing 24Ghash/s and its kinda awesome thinking going solo!

if the price of bitcoins keep falling like it has been, its going to be a loss for some miners.  if the price starts to creep back up near the $20usd/btc then it might be worth it.  just mine and hold.... and hope the price goes back up to $30 or more if you want to see a ROI.

They'll need to have a lot more processing power than the entire legit bitcoin network I believe in order to mine enough coins to trade at high frequency and high enough volume to make a difference. And given that we might have the largest hashing capacity network in existence, that would take a fair bit of cash and hardware, which might drive the cost of hardware cheaper for legit miners and so make it even harder for them to crash it.

Man, this stuff gets technical fast.  What;s to stop opponents of this medium of exchange from mining it into value-less-ness with a high frequency trading set up?

Actually I will check up amd's stock and buy it when I collect second hand cards at mean time

At the place that I live in, 0.3$/kwh (so called green energy) el price makes any solution less than 300MH/S a loss

Currently I'm testing with my old GTX295 (90MH/s). After one day, I cashed in 0.03 BTC, which is only 1/3 of the electricity cost.

I think at least 2 AMD 300MH/S cards are required to be profitable

I truly believe bitcoins are profitable and i came on board really late. In Just a week and a half, I've made half my investment back and have since reinvested. I personally prefer to do the bitcoin mining, because *IF* it does all come crashing down i still have the physical hardware that will still hold some value.

Plus i have a believe in the best bang for the buck when it comes to mining, which means i only use 5770's. Why? For the retail price (warranties) it offers the highest m/hash per dollar, also they require less energy then higher end cards, and when difficulties rise you want that.

At the end of the day, there's a small niche for the guys who are smart about it but the long run the bigger companies will try and squash the small competition, especially when difficulty rises. Just be prepared and if you see a good deal on cards grab them.

PS. i think the deflation is natural, look at the media coverage bitcoin received during the high spike. What happens when an a merge is announced that is good for both parties? Well generally the stock rises, and then slowly comes back down. Well our drop wasn't exactly slowly, and i think a bunch of people are still waiting to sell until it spikes again, just like in real life. Which is crazy you spend your way out of a recession not save.

Given the deflation nature of bitcoin, the payout will be less and less after each month, this seems like a racing between GPU makers and bitcoin internal deflation speed

bitcoins in a way treat high end computation like a rare earth comodity... hence.. yes

2 investment options
1. buy cards (retain physical equity with depreciation)
2. buy coins (gamble unless perhaps you, unlike most, like playing forex type high risk investments)

Worth the effort? sure
Worth the effort now? probably less so for now, until 6990s or better become available in higher numbers

100 digging shovels will not compete with a single big digging machine. Big copper mines squeeze the small ones. A matter of efficiency which comes out of large scale and superior tecnology.
In the context of bitcoins, we already see the trend towards hotter and hotter gear. Well, cooling systems can be made more efficient with bigger, dedicated systems.

Demand would then drive supply so manufacturers will produce faster/more hashing hardware (be it in terms of GPU or specialised add on cards), economies of scale would mean these become more affordable. Since it's a lot easier for 10,000 individuals to run 1~3 units each than a single entity trying to house 30,000 units, the general distribution of hashing power should still remain relatively decentralized... unless everybody goes join the same mining pool or something

As johnyj wrote above, a mid-range gear will mine about $50/month, if electricity cost is taken into account. That is not insignificant, but it can hardly be considered as making a living. Nice toy, though.
It is quite obvious that "small" miners (like CPU miners) will soon be squeezed out to leave the playground for super-duper, liquid nitrogen cooling system, large computers. This can be expected, if the demand for bitcoins grows. It is simpy a matter of the economy of scale - like in conventional mining for, say, copper.
That isn't quite compatible with the decentralization concept of the bitcoin itself.

Here's a couple pros:
If you happen to own a midrange to high end radeon card already, you can get some money out of it instead of just letting it sit there and be worth less every day.

If you wanted to buy one for gaming but didn't want to pay that price it costs, run it mining on and off for a month or two and tada, it's like a 30-100% off sale

If depreciation on a video card you were buying anyway and paid too much for drives you insane, you can easily make up the difference by mining with it some of the time.

If non-miners pick up bitcoins for payments more than miners because of the many positive features about the currency or people start buying them up en masse speculatively, you're rich cuz the exchange rate will go through the roof.

In the winter, I personally have two outside facing walls and a window in my room and it gets REALLY cold because my room loses heat faster than other rooms so I purposely leave my computer idling to make up a little of the difference.  So I'll just let it mine bitcoins since about 99.999% of the power going into a processor gets turned into heat, pretty efficiently in fact, so it'll heat my room and I'll get paid for it And a mid level radeon card runs at around 200-250W so there you go heat your house with it!

That sounds about right. I thought it would take roughly 2.5-3 months to pay off any sort of investment in hardware required to mine, regardless of how much you put into it. Assuming you got the 5830 from newegg, thats between the tiemframe I predicted. Everything after that time frame, you are gaining money from mining. Before that, you're working off your investment.

I already had a 5870 mining peak 450mhash, and 350 when gaming. I invested in 5x 5830s and hardware to hold them all, about $1050. My average compute rate is 2 Ghash. I should be able to pay off that investment in about the same timeframe: 2.5-3 months. If mining bitcoins still appears to be profitable enough to put more hardware into it, I will after I've paid off the initial investment

Using that calculator , with the current difficulty 1560000, 300mh/s performance, 0.15$/kwh on a 300w machine, I get barely 48 USD each month, and this number will decrease with rising difficulty, did I miss something?

Financially, profit is a positive difference between revenue and expenses. If you only count revenue as profit, you are ripping yourself off. Maybe you will profit psychologically, but is that what we're talking about?