Mining machine VS space heater - page 2.

PatrickHarnett

hero member

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Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

The issue with using a heat pump for your winter heating is that the cold outside air has very little heat that can be pulled out of it. The colder it get's outside, the less efficient the device becomes.

Yes and no, and while air is still a gas, it has lots of kinetic energy. Moving from 10C to 0C (50f to 32f) only extracts about 5% of the energy available. Move it to -100C and it will choke. Remember also that AC units (heating and cooling) are normally designed for their environment, that's why some will work happily at -15C and others will have iced up.

Flip side, exchanging energy from a hot room to an even hotter outside is the same principle.

IXCoin

newbie

Activity: 7

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The issue with using a heat pump for your winter heating is that the cold outside air has very little heat that can be pulled out of it. The colder it get's outside, the less efficient the device becomes.

Indeed. But even in the worst case such a device is still more efficient than resistive heating. This of course only applies to air-source heat pumps. Water-source are dependent only on the temperature of the water supply which stays relatively consistent year round.

IXCoin

newbie

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Quote from: Xephan on August 11, 2011, 08:53:43 PM

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on August 11, 2011, 07:49:11 PM

Quote from: Xephan on August 11, 2011, 12:18:12 PM

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on August 11, 2011, 11:09:37 AM

Now if you were to get a window air conditioner (heat pump) and put it in the window backwards then you might put 1000W of electricity in and get 2000W or more of heat out. But a window AC won't come on once the outside temperature falls below a certain point.

With this and your BTC guild posts, we can safely conclude you really are mad Cheesy

So stealing, people conspiring, air conditioners and heat pumps don't exist?

All these exists... just not an air conditioner that outputs 2000W or more with an input energy of 1000W in a room with a sub 500W mining machine. Cheesy

Especially not when it is installed backwards with the radiator facing the inside of the room and the air vents facing outdoors during winter.

Of course I'm not a HVAC expert so feel free to illustrate technically how your perpetual motion aircon setup works Cheesy

An air conditioner most definitely CAN output more heat than the power it consumes if placed in a window "backwards". It's called a heat pump, and it gives you more heat than just using that same electricity to make heat. Good heat pumps can have a COP (coefficient of performance) of over 6! So every watt it uses concentrates 6 watts of heat from one place and moves it to another. The highest I've seen is 7-something, which blows my mind.

IXCoin

newbie

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Quote from: bmgjet on August 11, 2011, 06:57:24 PM

MY mining machine used around 300W, My small fan heater uses around 190W and puts out 3X as much heat 5X faster. My oil heater uses 80W takes a hour to get up to the same temp but once its there it turns off and on saving power.

Nope. Try again

Mad7Scientist

sr. member

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This is so stupid Xephan how can say I am just making up everything when you don't even know how a heat pump works.

If you buy one with a COP of 3 it may use 5,000W and put 15,000W (52,000 BTU) of heat in to your house.

PatrickHarnett

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Xephan on August 11, 2011, 12:18:12 PM

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on August 11, 2011, 11:09:37 AM

Now if you were to get a window air conditioner (heat pump) and put it in the window backwards then you might put 1000W of electricity in and get 2000W or more of heat out. But a window AC won't come on once the outside temperature falls below a certain point.

With this and your BTC guild posts, we can safely conclude you really are mad Cheesy

Not to detract from Joel's post, but to add to the silly side - obviously you should put your miners outside blowing onto the AC unit so it doesn't get cold.

On the proper side - I am enjoying winter and the rigs keep the place nice and tropical.

Xephan

newbie

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Quote from: JoelKatz on August 11, 2011, 09:15:15 PM

Quote from: Xephan on August 11, 2011, 12:17:02 PM

A mining machine is almost as efficient in converting electricity to heat as a space heater since almost of the energy used in semiconductors are converted to heat. It just loses out mostly due to the fans and other mechanical parts. And it would probably work better since the fans in the machine will help spread the heat around the room better.

It doesn't lose out due to anything. Precisely 100% of the energy that the machine uses becomes eat. Even the energy that goes to fans turns into kinetic energy of molecules, which is pretty much the definition of heat. The friction in the bearings, the current through the wires, it's all heat.

True and agreed, I got too focused on the superficial appearance rather than the fundamental nature Cheesy

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Xephan on August 11, 2011, 12:17:02 PM

A mining machine is almost as efficient in converting electricity to heat as a space heater since almost of the energy used in semiconductors are converted to heat. It just loses out mostly due to the fans and other mechanical parts. And it would probably work better since the fans in the machine will help spread the heat around the room better.

It doesn't lose out due to anything. Precisely 100% of the energy that the machine uses becomes eat. Even the energy that goes to fans turns into kinetic energy of molecules, which is pretty much the definition of heat. The friction in the bearings, the current through the wires, it's all heat.

If you don't see why this must be, consider a computer locked inside a room. All that can pass into or out of the room is electricity (through wires) and heat (through the walls of the room). Now imagine we let the room sit until it reaches an equilibrium. All that is going into the room is electric energy and all that is leaving the room is heat. If you assume the conversion wasn't a perfect 100% electricity-to-heat, that would mean something would be either building up in the room or being depleted from the room. But that would contradict our assumption that we let the room sit until it reached an equilibrium.

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

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Quote from: Mad7Scientist on August 11, 2011, 07:49:11 PM

Quote from: Xephan on August 11, 2011, 12:18:12 PM

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on August 11, 2011, 11:09:37 AM

Now if you were to get a window air conditioner (heat pump) and put it in the window backwards then you might put 1000W of electricity in and get 2000W or more of heat out. But a window AC won't come on once the outside temperature falls below a certain point.

With this and your BTC guild posts, we can safely conclude you really are mad Cheesy

So stealing, people conspiring, air conditioners and heat pumps don't exist?

All these exists... just not an air conditioner that outputs 2000W or more with an input energy of 1000W in a room with a sub 500W mining machine. Cheesy

Especially not when it is installed backwards with the radiator facing the inside of the room and the air vents facing outdoors during winter.

Of course I'm not a HVAC expert so feel free to illustrate technically how your perpetual motion aircon setup works Cheesy

Mad7Scientist

sr. member

Activity: 373

Merit: 262

Quote from: Xephan on August 11, 2011, 12:18:12 PM

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on August 11, 2011, 11:09:37 AM

Now if you were to get a window air conditioner (heat pump) and put it in the window backwards then you might put 1000W of electricity in and get 2000W or more of heat out. But a window AC won't come on once the outside temperature falls below a certain point.

With this and your BTC guild posts, we can safely conclude you really are mad Cheesy

So stealing, people conspiring, air conditioners and heat pumps don't exist?

bmgjet

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

MY mining machine used around 300W, My small fan heater uses around 190W and puts out 3X as much heat 5X faster. My oil heater uses 80W takes a hour to get up to the same temp but once its there it turns off and on saving power.

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on August 11, 2011, 11:09:37 AM

Now if you were to get a window air conditioner (heat pump) and put it in the window backwards then you might put 1000W of electricity in and get 2000W or more of heat out. But a window AC won't come on once the outside temperature falls below a certain point.

With this and your BTC guild posts, we can safely conclude you really are mad Cheesy

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: btcgolong on August 11, 2011, 08:33:10 AM

My basement is COLD in summer and COLDER in winter. Even it summer it feels good to cozy up to my mining machine. I haven't ordered a: Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor, yet. I'm wondering how a mining machine compares to a space heater and also oil heaters.

These heaters usually run between 500 and 1500 watts, and based on using them before, the space heaters are not very efficient, the oil heaters probably produce more heat for less wattage. How does a mining machine stack up against a space heater and oil heater?

A mining machine is almost as efficient in converting electricity to heat as a space heater since almost of the energy used in semiconductors are converted to heat. It just loses out mostly due to the fans and other mechanical parts. And it would probably work better since the fans in the machine will help spread the heat around the room better.

floeti

newbie

Activity: 30

Merit: 0

We are definitely going to see some serious increase of network-hashrate in winter... Shocked

Mad7Scientist

sr. member

Activity: 373

Merit: 262

Quote from: btcgolong on August 11, 2011, 08:33:10 AM

These heaters usually run between 500 and 1500 watts, and based on using them before, the space heaters are not very efficient, the oil heaters probably produce more heat for less wattage. How does a mining machine stack up against a space heater and oil heater?

NO!!! All electric heaters are exactly 100% efficient. 1000W of electricity in is 1000W of heat out.

Now if you were to get a window air conditioner (heat pump) and put it in the window backwards then you might put 1000W of electricity in and get 2000W or more of heat out. But a window AC won't come on once the outside temperature falls below a certain point.

Quote

Are we getting over and saving a bit of money in the winter?

If you make enough bitcoins to pay the electric bill then you can heat for free!

btcgolong

sr. member

Activity: 451

Merit: 269

Quote from: Axez D. Nyde on August 11, 2011, 09:12:16 AM

Maybe you could get a bathtub next to your rig and try to heat the water with exhaust air from your GPUs. It wouldn't get any hotter than you GPUs are so no chance for boiling water for cooking or something like that. Maybe you could fry an egg on your graphics card if you were to replace the heat sink with a flat copper plating Tongue

LOL!

btcgolong

sr. member

Activity: 451

Merit: 269

Quote from: ruski on August 11, 2011, 09:06:40 AM

In my experience the miners add just enough heat that its never cold. You wont be freezing but you wont be toasty either. Power wise, how can you even compare? Miner is negative cost as a heater.

Well I know I'm going to pay. But it feels like my miner is producing close to the heat of a space heater set on low (500 watts), if that is the case, then we are "getting over" (sorry for the use of USA slang) a little in winter time because I'm heating my room and generating bitcoins at the same time. If I'm just running a heater I get nothing but heat.

I don't expect much savings here, but I have heard other miners talk about their mining rigs making their rooms nice and warm in the winter (and too damn hot in the summer!)

Axez D. Nyde

jr. member

Activity: 54

Merit: 5

Maybe you could get a bathtub next to your rig and try to heat the water with exhaust air from your GPUs. It wouldn't get any hotter than you GPUs are so no chance for boiling water for cooking or something like that. Maybe you could fry an egg on your graphics card if you were to replace the heat sink with a flat copper plating Tongue

ruski

full member

Activity: 350

Merit: 100

In my experience the miners add just enough heat that its never cold. You wont be freezing but you wont be toasty either. Power wise, how can you even compare? Miner is negative cost as a heater.

btcgolong

sr. member

Activity: 451

Merit: 269

My basement is COLD in summer and COLDER in winter. Even it summer it feels good to cozy up to my mining machine. I haven't ordered a: Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor, yet. I'm wondering how a mining machine compares to a space heater and also oil heaters.

These heaters usually run between 500 and 1500 watts, and based on using them before, the space heaters are not very efficient, the oil heaters probably produce more heat for less wattage. How does a mining machine stack up against a space heater and oil heater?

Are we getting over and saving a bit of money in the winter?

Of course most of us would not run the heater 24/7, but lets just ignore that for the time being.

Topic: Mining machine VS space heater - page 2. (Read 4207 times)