Topic: Mining on Next Generation Consoles? - page 2. (Read 5324 times)

Or we're going on about it the wrong way. What about an XBLA program for mining?

Even if the BIOS did do a boot check, your MITM method could work. If anything, that may be one method that modchips use! Say you used the Arduino (very useful device btw), and you figured out the entire boot process. You could have the BIOS verify the stock hard drive on an unmodified OS, and once the boot check passes, you could flip hard drives using an exploit of some sort, booting whatever you want. However, an easy fix to this would to do a boot verification, verifying the OS checked was the OS booted. That also can be bypassed using some complicated stuff though too. Read on.

You could have the arduino intercept whatever code or hash the BIOS will check during the Boot Check and have it stored. Then switch hard drives and boot from the custom OS, but emulate the other OS on top of it (or just the hash checked) and have it report that when the Boot Verification process would be called. After that check passes, you could then reinstate the custom OS and run it like normal. However to fix that too, the BIOS could run a Persistant OS Check, checking the OS signature every X amount of time. That can also be bypassed by masking the OS somehow using some exploit, and just freezing the original OS "check hash" in the memory, so that key keeps getting pulled while the custom OS runs.

There are a lot of ways you can go about bypassing BIOS checks. But there are a lot of ways to counter them as well. I wan't to learn how to program code so bad so I can hack systems myself, I just haven't taken time to figure out, 1. what language(s) would be necessary for exploit research and hack programming, and 2. actually learning such languages. It's something I'll eventually get around to, I just need some advice.

Good point about the HDD check.

If I were a modder, I'd try a MITM method. Attach the HDD to "some device" (Arduino?) and try to interrupt the boot process at various points until I'm confident I can start the console and switch to another HDD/USB key to keep booting but with my OS instead. And I could put a switch to revert to normal boot

Of course this would totally fail if the BIOS does more than a boot check. I'd have to adapt (hence the Arduino - or other, in the middle).

As far as my understanding of modchips goes, one type consisted of replacement parts. They would basically be stock parts, but modified to remove or bypass security measures. These typically don't work, as most security is software based now anyways. The other type were ones that ran ontop of existing hardware. They injected data or controlled data and allowed people to hijack the security using the modchip code (which needed a kernel exploit to be manufactured afaik). I don't know too much about modchips, but that is my understanding of them. All of the consoles have them so far in some form (including JTAG), but the new consoles might not.

You bring up a good point with the "elegant" hard drive hack method because of their hardware. In the BIOS of the motherboard used, all they would need is to run a memory and OS software integrity check and it would certainly fail, resulting in a failed boot, or boot loop. Therefore that method would not work. Now if we somehow got the base keys to encrypt software like we did on the ps3, such a system could easily be bypassed, but I believe Sony learned their lesson this time around. I don't have too much hope in the ps4 hack potential, but with the xbox 720 (or infinity), i certainly do. It runs Basic Windows 8, so any windows 8 kernel exploit found could be ported to the xbox 720 (in theory). It also should be able to run .exe code with some modification (if its programs and apps don't already run on such a system). with that, we could simply run cgminer, and maybe even get computer graphics drivers that correspond with the actual card running too. Using windows 8 probably wasn't the best idea, unless they totally neutered it and removed various environment variables and such. Only time would tell.


You are correct. The xbox 720 will as well. The discussion is about hijacking the system's OS to run mining code.

I thought the PS4 was going to use an AMD APU, which we already have an idea of what those will be mining at.

Whatever happened to the good ole' modchips? Flip a switch: PS3, flip it again: CGMiner

I'm so not into console hacking right now, but why not "elegantly" bypass the console's OS altogether and install Linux on a separate HDD/USB key ghetto style? They's supposed to be very PC-like no (ignorance talking...) ?

I remember some issue with the first XBOX and the special firmware of HDDs, but it's been modded so I suppose the current ones could be too. (again, ignorance...)

I think there will be get a way to get a Linux environment on the ps3 somehow, to the degree to get cgminer up. On the xbox I think once a kernel exploit in windows 8 is found, we can hijack it to run executable files.

I was being a bit cheeky, but I'm sure ppl will find a way to hack it. It will be ugly, of course, otherwise it won't be a real hack

I believe in "when there is a will, there is a way". I also believe it will be even more "niche" than BTC mining at night on your boss' PC.

Of course, I'm pulling these predictions right from my backside

Look into hacking the ps3 and xbox 360 and their security measures. It isn't that easy. Nobody has hijacked the USB boot verification that the xbox uses, and neither have they bypassed the failsafe for the ps3 update usb file either. However, OpenOS has been hacked to be on the newer ps3 firmwares, and you can install Linux over that, so the ps3 could be a standing candidate currenctly, just with horrible speeds. Alt coin mining on the next gen consoles should be profitable though.

USB bootdrive with Linux on it, I say!

You will be able to mod the firmware to mine scrypt with it.

But it wont ever be usable as a gaming console then...

Mining on GPUs won't be profitable. Will you dump them or switch to another currency?

the always on feature is some anti-piracy method I heard. and forced auto-update

Mining on gaming consoles will NOT be profitable.

You won't even be able to make up the cost of the electricity to runt he console!

It's a complete waste of time, don't even bother.


Let's look at the math:

When next generation gaming consoles come, let's say sometime in the fall, mining difficulty should be around 150 million. It could be much more, I'm being conservative with my estimate.

Let's assume that bitcoins are worth $200. Right now they are barely above $100 so I'm assuming they will double in value (a big assumption).

Let's say your gaming console is in range of the best GPUs currently available and can perform 800 megahashes/second (most likely it will be much much less).

Finally, let's say your console draws 250W and your electricity is 0.15 cents/KWH.

Let's plug it into the mining calculator...

You will make 0.0027 BTC per day or 0.54 cents a day. Power will cost you 0.90 cents a day, so you will lose 0.36 cents a day.

Not a good deal at all!

But isn't the nextbox supposed to be always online? I would think that would prevent any form of hacking. Or at the very least make it extremely difficult. I can't remember if the ps4 will always be online as well. As far the ps4 hardware goes, I'm pretty sure that's going to be a thin line between pc hardware and console hardware. While it's x86, it will be capable of doing things modern pc's cannot. I think low level gpu access falls into that category.

For BTC/SHA256, a 274 USD Jalapeno would do rather better than a 500 USD console. I'm rather inclined to say that BFL will eventually ship or someone else will. I think they have their pricing tiers down pat. I expect the same serious miners to convert their GPUs/FPGAs in ASICs and so the difficulty will be bumped by a factor of 10-20 and flatten out (I think they will keep the same level of investment). Even now the next gen consoles aren't very interesting to mine with though.

For LTC/scrypt, it might be a fun project to have a live distro or sth to mine the coins. Depending on how much electricity they consume it might be a viable project too. Otherwise, it's GPUs as usual for now.

If anything it will have a low effect, as people will have to understand that mining degrades your cards after a while (more intensively than gaming will). Also, you won't be able to game with the miner running, but during idle time it could be profitable. It wouldn't be power efficient at all though. It would be an excellent way of bringing popularity to Bitcoin and other alt currencies via the Gaming community. Alt coin mining on such consoles would be worth it though. When I get my ps4, I am going to look into hacking clients, figure out how its done, and maybe team up with some ps3 devs and work on it.

If it is possible/effective I wonder what effect this will have on mining difficulty.

Hackers love the phrase "That's not allowed", so they find a way to do it. OpenOS was removed from the ps3, so hackers put it back on. I think because the future ps4/xbox720 will have pretty much PC hardware it will be possible with a low level of modification. I am almost certain that the Xbox 720 will be able to run such code without needing Linux, as its OS will be derived from Windows 8 basic, which can already run CGMiner.

Is this a joke? It's not possible. Maybe if you were able to install linux but I doubt they're going to allow that this time around.