Mining rig extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] - page 13.

Roadhog2k5

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 25, 2012, 10:39:31 AM

I have found the grain of rice method doesn't work well on GPUs.

With a CPU you have a single heatsink which mounts to the flat heat spreader and applies a lot of pressure.

With a GPU the heatsink covers multiple components and is tightened down with multiple screws. Very hard to get the same amount of direct pressure on the GPU die.

The other advantage of CPU is the heat spreader is larger than the chip surface so if thermal compound doesn't get all the way to the corners it doesn't really matter because there is no heat source there. With GPU what you see is the actual chip package and even the corners are putting out significant amount of heat.

For CPU the single grain of rice method works fine. For GPU I use the thin line and spread with a credit card. It doesn't need to be perfect the heatsink will apply some pressure and spread it out.

Still regardless of the method you want as little as possible. I try to get it thin enough that it looks almost translucent.

Nope... Grain of rice method does not work for any bare dies. It leaves the edges bare like you said.

I use an X method which works fantastic. Two thin lines in an X shape from each corner of the die. Spread method works good too. Really, any method will work as long as the die is covered.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

I have found the grain of rice method doesn't work well on GPUs.

With a CPU you have a single heatsink which mounts to the flat heat spreader and applies a lot of pressure.

With a GPU the heatsink covers multiple components and is tightened down with multiple screws. Very hard to get the same amount of direct pressure on the GPU die.

The other advantage of CPU is the heat spreader is larger than the chip surface so if thermal compound doesn't get all the way to the corners it doesn't really matter because there is no heat source there. With GPU what you see is the actual chip package and even the corners are putting out significant amount of heat.

For CPU the single grain of rice method works fine. For GPU I use the thin line and spread with a credit card. It doesn't need to be perfect the heatsink will apply some pressure and spread it out.

Still regardless of the method you want as little as possible. I try to get it thin enough that it looks almost translucent.

trouserless

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 24, 2012, 09:15:22 PM

alcohol works but it doesn't really dissolve the TIM.

If found this works good. Yes a ripoff @ $7 for small bottle (good for 10 GPU at least) but it works very well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100010

For cleaning up bad thermal paste jobs which got some of the resistors I have found a method which works well. Using the #1 cleaner in the link above, let it dissolve some of the thermal paste, mop it up with qtips. You aren't really scrubbing it (which just smears the paste around to other resistors) more using the qtip like a sponge. It will take 3 or 4 passes but you can get any surface perfectly clean.

I just watched the video on the newegg link above and was surprised at the "grain of rice" application of the thermal paste. I've been reading that "less is more" when applying this stuff in other posts here, but had not seen how little the "less" reference is. I'm assuming that a GPU application is the same as the CPU application in the video above? I've got a 5970 that is requiring close to 100% fan to keep at 72C and think I will see what this could do to drop the temps/fans to be more in line with the other two cards that I have.

bulanula

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I don't know about you guys but I have been using isopropyl alcohol and rubbing alcohol and even acetone very successfully and got very low temperatures.

If you know how to do it, then anything is good. The difference between thermal compounds is a few degrees at best. The difference between a failed application and a professional application can be huge.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: Cablez on March 25, 2012, 08:54:41 AM

Well there you go. I will have to pick some AS cleaner up then. Thanks Diabolo!

I am a Diablo, not a Diabolo.

Cablez

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I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...

Well there you go. I will have to pick some AS cleaner up then. Thanks Diablo!

EDIT: Typo fixed, sorry. Sad

DiabloD3

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Quote from: Cablez on March 25, 2012, 07:52:43 AM

You can go with almost any TIM material as Diabolo said.

For me AS5, MX-2, MX-4, IC diamond, PK-1 and shin-etsu all work pretty good.
I have had best results with MX-4, PK-1 and IC diamond.
Only problem with IC diamond is that it does scratch the GPU die so definitely consider that before use.
As of now I have switched exclusively to PK-1 as its best of all worlds for me (cooler gpus, cheapish and easy to work with).

I don't see how 99% rubbing alcohol is bad for gpu die but that 2 part AS cleaner does work.

It tarnishes the surface on some surfaces, it doesn't dissolve pads for stuff that doesn't use thermal paste, it doesn't remove oils or chemicals used in some pads and pastes, it really doesn't work right. I've had my bottles of arcticlean for years, cleaned many CPUs and GPUs (and some were so fucked up that it needed 2 or 3 treatments before it was nice and clean) and I'm still only half way through it.

Cablez

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You can go with almost any TIM material as Diabolo said.

For me AS5, MX-2, MX-4, IC diamond, PK-1 and shin-etsu all work pretty good.
I have had best results with MX-4, PK-1 and IC diamond.
Only problem with IC diamond is that it does scratch the GPU die so definitely consider that before use.
As of now I have switched exclusively to PK-1 as its best of all worlds for me (cooler gpus, cheapish and easy to work with).

I don't see how 99% rubbing alcohol is bad for gpu die but that 2 part AS cleaner does work.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 25, 2012, 06:42:13 AM

I think you mean Delta's AFB1212 series. They come in multiple speeds.

http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdf

AFB1212s are the best fans ever made, they're exclusively for industrial/enterprise high air pressure cooling. The HHE is the largest one that is available in 3 pin plug, the rest use 4 pin molexes.

Actually I think they are the PFB or FFB series - they have some stationary curved blades as part of the fan housing to direct the air into a vortex (presumably), and the actual moving blades are some of the most extreme pitch I have ever seen. They are rated for 2.25 amps at 12 volts.

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 25, 2012, 06:42:13 AM

As for GPU cleaning: DO NOT USE SOLVENTS OR ALCOHOL.

Arctic silver makes a two part cleaner, I use it exclusively.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arcticlean.htm

I already ordered some as per DeathAndTaxes recommendation. Good to hear another +1 for it.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 24, 2012, 10:02:50 PM

Whatever. AS5 will damage a graphics card if you get it on the unprotected traces which surround the die. I got no problem using AS5 on CPU with a headspreader. If you use too much it isn't going to damage anything, on a AMD GPU if you use too much it is going to squeeze out right onto those unprotected traces and you end up with a $400 paperweight.

Thats a myth. AS5 will not damage a GPU, the parts of the GPU die that are not under a heatspreader are coated in thick epoxy to prevent thermal paste from directly touching them. I use AS5 exclusively on GPUs.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: rjk on March 24, 2012, 09:12:34 PM

I have some extremely loud and high velocity 120mm Delta fans that are like 1.5 inch thick and fucking dangerous to operate. Came out of an old PSU. Wonder where I can order more in bulk - sc8nt4u's fans might work, but I assume they are standard thickness of about 3/4 inch and not as high velocity/CFM. Also, since the card's built in fans are being removed, it is imperative that my external fans are redundant and reliable.

BTW - when cleaning off old thermal paste, it is really hard to remove it from around the little resistors around the GPU core. Is there any kind of solvent that will remove it without damaging the GPU? Alcohol perhaps? I'm guessing the old shit isn't conductive, since it was slathered like peanut butter all over the entire GPU including the little resistors.

I think you mean Delta's AFB1212 series. They come in multiple speeds.

http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdf

AFB1212s are the best fans ever made, they're exclusively for industrial/enterprise high air pressure cooling. The HHE is the largest one that is available in 3 pin plug, the rest use 4 pin molexes.

As for GPU cleaning: DO NOT USE SOLVENTS OR ALCOHOL.

Arctic silver makes a two part cleaner, I use it exclusively.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arcticlean.htm

Unacceptable

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Quote from: rjk on March 24, 2012, 09:12:34 PM

I have some extremely loud and high velocity 120mm Delta fans that are like 1.5 inch thick and fucking dangerous to operate. Came out of an old PSU. Wonder where I can order more in bulk - sc8nt4u's fans might work, but I assume they are standard thickness of about 3/4 inch and not as high velocity/CFM. Also, since the card's built in fans are being removed, it is imperative that my external fans are redundant and reliable.

BTW - when cleaning off old thermal paste, it is really hard to remove it from around the little resistors around the GPU core. Is there any kind of solvent that will remove it without damaging the GPU? Alcohol perhaps? I'm guessing the old shit isn't conductive, since it was slathered like peanut butter all over the entire GPU including the little resistors.

I use electrical contact cleaner in an aerosol can.Be sure to use it outside,it can be very messy & very aromatic.

1l1l11ll1l

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Quote from: ionbasa on March 24, 2012, 11:31:31 PM

I recommend IC Diamond for any Tim. Works super awesome, but its slightly expensive. If you browse the evga forum there is a guy selling it cheap.

I second that! Absolutely best stuff I've ever used.

I buy from this seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovation-Cooling-IC24-Diamond-CPU-Thermal-Paste-/140717707334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c36dd046

yochdog

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 18, 2012, 06:15:57 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 18, 2012, 03:16:09 PM

If the 7970 was sub $400 wouldn't the same logic make you think that used 5970s would also drop in price. I mean all performance is relative right?

Of course with a lack of anything even close to competitive by NVidia I doubt AMD will feel the need to drop prices that low that fast. Maybe sub $500 sub not sub $400.

Because the 5970s already did drop in price. Gamers are flooding ebay with old cards, irregardless of our little mining community. And no, the drop doesn't happen over night. I'm thinking months as in the 2-3 quarter type of outlook. They will be under $400 before 2013 rolls around.

would love to see where 5970's are "flooding" the market. Lol.

ionbasa

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I recommend IC Diamond for any Tim. Works super awesome, but its slightly expensive. If you browse the evga forum there is a guy selling it cheap.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: Roadhog2k5 on March 24, 2012, 10:21:47 PM

Quote from: rjk on March 24, 2012, 10:17:41 PM

Here this is what I had been looking at: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/geek_tested_17_thermal_pastes_face
Except I read it in the actual mag.

Maximumpc lololol....

If you want a good paste just get the Prolimatech PK-1, it's cheap, spreads easily, and performs probably the best.

I liked the testing methodology, regardless of who tested it. PK-1 scored well, but I would probably go for the Shin-Etsu compound first, if I couldn't get TX-4 (which I already did).

Roadhog2k5

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Quote from: rjk on March 24, 2012, 10:17:41 PM

Here this is what I had been looking at: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/geek_tested_17_thermal_pastes_face
Except I read it in the actual mag.

Maximumpc lololol....

If you want a good paste just get the Prolimatech PK-1, it's cheap, spreads easily, and performs probably the best.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: Roadhog2k5 on March 24, 2012, 10:15:42 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 24, 2012, 10:11:46 PM

I never said you will have problems. If you keep it off any traces you are fine. If you don't well you blew up a $400 GPU for no good reason.

Back when the choice was AS or that white goop which comes in $0.99 packs it might have been worth the risk. Now that there are two dozen high quality NON CAPACATIVE ceramic based compounds the risk seems unwarranted.

When installing waterblocks I have found about half of all GPU have excess thermal compound on the traces. If it was AS5 they would all be dead.

Still your right it you are flawless in laying it down and never make a mistake, never put too much on, never allow any to fall on the traces then it will work fine.

Pretty much. That's why I went to pk-1 mostly. I can just blob on whatever I want and not have to worry about carefully spreading it, etc... Lazy mode + better performance = win. :p

There's so many better pastes than AS5 to choose from now it's not even funny.

http://skinneelabs.com/2011-thermal-paste-review-comparison/2/

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermal-interface-roundup-1_12.html#sect0

Here this is what I had been looking at: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/geek_tested_17_thermal_pastes_face
Except I read it in the actual mag.

Roadhog2k5

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 24, 2012, 10:11:46 PM

I never said you will have problems. If you keep it off any traces you are fine. If you don't well you blew up a $400 GPU for no good reason.

Back when the choice was AS or that white goop which comes in $0.99 packs it might have been worth the risk. Now that there are two dozen high quality NON CAPACATIVE ceramic based compounds the risk seems unwarranted.

When installing waterblocks I have found about half of all GPU have excess thermal compound on the traces. If it was AS5 they would all be dead.

Still your right it you are flawless in laying it down and never make a mistake, never put too much on, never allow any to fall on the traces then it will work fine.

Pretty much. That's why I went to pk-1 mostly. I can just blob on whatever I want and not have to worry about carefully spreading it, etc... Lazy mode + better performance = win. :p

There's so many better pastes than AS5 to choose from now it's not even funny.

http://skinneelabs.com/2011-thermal-paste-review-comparison/2/

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermal-interface-roundup-1_12.html#sect0

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

I never said you will have problems. If you keep it off any traces you are fine. If you don't well you blew up a $400 GPU for no good reason.

Back when the choice was AS or that white goop which comes in $0.99 packs it might have been worth the risk. Now that there are two dozen high quality NON CAPACATIVE ceramic based compounds the risk seems unwarranted.

When installing waterblocks I have found about half of all GPU have excess thermal compound on the traces. If it was AS5 they would all be dead.

Still your right it you are flawless in laying it down and never make a mistake, never put too much on, never allow any to fall on the traces then it will work fine.

Topic: Mining rig extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] - page 13. (Read 169531 times)