Mining with asics is already dead. | Bitcointalksearch.org

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3150

Merit: 2257

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Quote from: Puppet on October 31, 2013, 04:35:44 PM

Quote from: shields on October 31, 2013, 04:08:48 PM

I love this, this is why I'm not worried about Bitcoin security dropping due to lack of miners. People can't make the small mental jump to separate mining profits from speculation profits and will continue to buy and mine unprofitably.

Exactly.

For those that dont understand, a mining device generates bitcoins, not dollars. So to calculate ROI you either look at bitcoins in vs bitcoin out, and then its a gigantic loss.
Or, if you insist at looking at dollar in, bitcoin out, then you have to compare it with the more common way of turning dollars in to bitcoin, that is buying them, and compared to that, mining is an equally gigantic loss.

But hey, keep buying those asics, maybe bitcoin will go x10 again in the next year and you can manage to turn that zero effort 1000% gain in to a 10% 'profit'

Ah, but given that bitcoin prices are crazy, the concept of "ROI" is in a state of flux. And given that I could not buy this device with bitcoins (remember even if you paid in BTC BFL priced it in dollars, not bitcoins) dollars to dollars is all I can compare with on this sale.

I'm mining mostly for the fun of it, and to work on hooking this thing to a solar array. Bitcoins are and will continue to be a joke until things calm down a bit.

C

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Quote from: shields on October 31, 2013, 04:08:48 PM

I love this, this is why I'm not worried about Bitcoin security dropping due to lack of miners. People can't make the small mental jump to separate mining profits from speculation profits and will continue to buy and mine unprofitably.

Exactly.

For those that dont understand, a mining device generates bitcoins, not dollars. So to calculate ROI you either look at bitcoins in vs bitcoin out, and then its a gigantic loss.
Or, if you insist at looking at dollar in, bitcoin out, then you have to compare it with the more common way of turning dollars in to bitcoin, that is buying them, and compared to that, mining is an equally gigantic loss.

But hey, keep buying those asics, maybe bitcoin will go x10 again in the next year and you can manage to turn that zero effort 1000% gain in to a 10% 'profit'

User705

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1006

First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

Quote from: shields on October 31, 2013, 04:08:48 PM

Quote from: Lancelot19 on October 31, 2013, 03:19:20 PM

Irrelevant what the equivalent was then in BTC. He paid in cash, he mined BTC, BTC worth $200. All that really matters. He made an investment that BTC will do well and it paid off.

You are just jealous you can't convert $170 into 1.8 BTC :p

I love this, this is why I'm not worried about Bitcoin security dropping due to lack of miners. People can't make the small mental jump to separate mining profits from speculation profits and will continue to buy and mine unprofitably.

Why are you telling them then. Every time someone says that you should encourage them to buy another ASIC since they made a profit on the 1st one.

shields

full member

Activity: 164

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lancelot19 on October 31, 2013, 03:19:20 PM

Irrelevant what the equivalent was then in BTC. He paid in cash, he mined BTC, BTC worth $200. All that really matters. He made an investment that BTC will do well and it paid off.

You are just jealous you can't convert $170 into 1.8 BTC :p

I love this, this is why I'm not worried about Bitcoin security dropping due to lack of miners. People can't make the small mental jump to separate mining profits from speculation profits and will continue to buy and mine unprofitably.

Lancelot19

newbie

Activity: 35

Merit: 0

Irrelevant what the equivalent was then in BTC. He paid in cash, he mined BTC, BTC worth $200. All that really matters. He made an investment that BTC will do well and it paid off.

You are just jealous you can't convert $170 into 1.8 BTC :p

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3150

Merit: 2257

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

That is correct. And my situation is one of the best of the bunch. However technically the dragon should not be included in the 169 amount in Jan as I bought that in Sept.

Funny the way the world works.

C

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Quote from: lightfoot on October 31, 2013, 12:29:14 PM

Oddly enough I agree. As of this morning I have made 1.7892 bitcoin with my Jally, which more than covers the $169 purchase and probably $40 worth of electricity used so far. *HOWEVER* THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE:

1) I ordered it on Jan 13, 2013, before the rust.
2) I immediately spent another $50 for a Dragon to boost it to 7.3gh speeds
3) I have been mining non-stop.

So yes I did make a "profit" but it's not that much and it's because I got a faster device than ordered relatively early in the cycle at a lower price than they had to charge later people. I consider that to be a lot of "luck", and not skill.

C

The only reason you think you made a profit is because BTC price increased. IN january you spent the equivalent of (169+50)/16= 13.7 BTC on your jally plus some on electricity. And you mined 1.8 BTC? LOL. What a fantastic deal you got there. Next time you want to invest BTC in something that returns you 10% of your investment, let me know, I may be able to help.

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3150

Merit: 2257

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Oddly enough I agree. As of this morning I have made 1.7892 bitcoin with my Jally, which more than covers the $169 purchase and probably $40 worth of electricity used so far. *HOWEVER* THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE:

1) I ordered it on Jan 13, 2013, before the rust.
2) I immediately spent another $50 for a Dragon to boost it to 7.3gh speeds
3) I have been mining non-stop.

So yes I did make a "profit" but it's not that much and it's because I got a faster device than ordered relatively early in the cycle at a lower price than they had to charge later people. I consider that to be a lot of "luck", and not skill.

C

Lancelot19

newbie

Activity: 35

Merit: 0

You can say it is dead all you want. My BTC wallet and daily payouts say otherwise.

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3150

Merit: 2257

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Quantum computing. If it exists.

C

Klubknuckle

sr. member

Activity: 285

Merit: 250

Is there anything better then ASIC for mining?

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1464

Clueless!

Quote from: JimiQ84 on September 03, 2013, 03:34:54 PM

Quote from: pliznau on September 03, 2013, 03:30:56 PM

Maybe it's just a mind trick but if you spend 50 btc at 100$ rate and you get only 43 at 200 i say you end up better, but here another question arise:why not just buy btc and wait?i think that's the only option till cheaper asics come on market and on more eternal delivery times.

there's another point - if no-one bought overpriced asic, would BTC price rise? There should be some connection (for example - if I buy expensive miner, I won't sell BTC for low price)

my question is ...if most of the "draw" and such in popularity of alt coins and bitcoin are due to people who "mine" such coins for fun and/or profit....STOP doing so because it makes no sense do do so anymore...could/would bitcoin survive or when the people buying miners left the game ..would there be no cheerleaders for bitcoin/altcoins anymore ..bexuse people said "duck it"

ie could the bitcoin market survive if all the miner types said it is a "rigged' game or customers of equip taking all the resk...and book it to other computer releated pastures?

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3150

Merit: 2257

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Actually I recomputed: With the pair of erupters+a hot jally I'm holding at 8gh which should be .04btc per day.

Still, I will probably barely break even since I bought it for $169 back in Jan.

C

ajw7989

legendary

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

With this crazy increase in difficulty current low end mining rigs are becoming worthless and probably by the end of the year not be worth their electric costs for most people who pay electric

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3150

Merit: 2257

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

And the difficulty just went up and my rig went from .05btc/day to .03btc/day.

YipYip

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: Syke on September 03, 2013, 03:43:39 PM

Quote from: pliznau on September 03, 2013, 03:30:56 PM

Maybe it's just a mind trick but if you spend 50 btc at 100$ rate and you get only 43 at 200 i say you end up better

Ok, send me 50 btc (at $130 now), and when it his $260, I'll send you 43 btc.

Initial Value: $6500.
Ending Value: $11,180
Guaranteed Profit: $4680.

As many people as want can take advantage of this guaranteed ROI. Just send your 50 btc to 1vgzHWzzcsYejaqtP7RHGzsE549ySKQa2.

Do you have the guaranteed pre-dated BTC delivery in-hand or is it a pre-order ?

If its a pre-order is is it near the front of the queue ? Cool

johnmatrix

sr. member

Activity: 371

Merit: 250

Thanks for the graphs organoifcorti.

The asic mining is almost dead to the general public but not for them who are making the chips, when they are salling 5 ghs devices is because they already have a 50 ghs asic miner prototype. also if the price of bitcoin goes up exponentially another time, everyone will be making money very fast.

pikeadz

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: psjw4450 on September 03, 2013, 08:55:56 AM

I have been looking to buy new asic hardware to add to my mining farm and have come to find out that the in hand equipment is over priced. People who are selling existing equipment want to sell it for more then it will ever ROI. Manufacturers like Asicminer and Bitfury are also selling their equipment for more then you will be able to ROI. Unless I'm using the available calculators wrong then its almost pointless to invest more BTC into asic equipment. It has truly become where the people selling the shovels are ripping off the people that are using them to mine with.

Asicminer usb cost .18 btc will only return .10 BTC in its usefull life.
Asicminer blade cost 4 btc will only return 3.3 BTC in its usefull life.
Bitfury 400gh/s Oct. costs 59.25 at $135 exchange rate will only return 43.31 BTC. That is with a November 1st delivery.

These are figured at a 30% increase every diff change. So why would I give away my bitcoins now in exchange for less bitcoins a year or more from now.

Dead in the sense that it never was profitable to begin with? I will agree with that because of the high markups initially. But with competition comes lower prices so I think it may be "revived" one day, if you will.

eXme

full member

Activity: 241

Merit: 100

Quote from: Syke on September 03, 2013, 03:43:39 PM

Quote from: pliznau on September 03, 2013, 03:30:56 PM

Maybe it's just a mind trick but if you spend 50 btc at 100$ rate and you get only 43 at 200 i say you end up better

Ok, send me 50 btc (at $130 now), and when it his $260, I'll send you 43 btc.

Initial Value: $6500.
Ending Value: $11,180
Guaranteed Profit: $4680.

As many people as want can take advantage of this guaranteed ROI. Just send your 50 btc to 1vgzHWzzcsYejaqtP7RHGzsE549ySKQa2.

Sended.

organofcorti

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1007

Poor impulse control.

Quote from: johnmatrix on September 08, 2013, 08:12:01 PM

There are a huge group of miners who own powerful devices and have been taking more action each day..

If you mean the large "unknown", that's just because blockchain.info's estimate is unreliable.

Try either http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/chart.php (constantly updated), or mine (updated only weekly):

Topic: Mining with asics is already dead. (Read 7052 times)