Topic: Mining "without internet" (Read 717 times)

TO MINING   



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I do think mining over a 56 Kbps modem might be possible. I have technical experience writing code with the Stratum protocol. First of all, the machines would need to be connected to a local Stratum proxy. The proxy will need to set a high enough share difficulty to minimize back-and-forth communication with the pool. Since BTC has long block times, there should be no problem broadcasting the jobs over 56 Kbps or even 10 Kbps. Even if the latency is 1 second, that will only result in a stale rate of 0.17%. Even for coins with fast block times like ETH, dialup could work.

But I would turn to tall 4G antenna or even a 3G modem first. Worst case, IPv4 over ham radio.

Mining without internet might actually be an interesting concept. Could you perhaps translate electrical signals through a phone/fax line to a computer with internet and somehow mine that way? Perhaps you could set up entire mining operations like that and have it all going back and forth between miners connected through the ethernet, sending and recieving signals (Which are translated from phone signals to code and from code to phone signals? You would still need internet at the end node though. I imagine the entire ordeal might not be doable due to how long it would take and phone lines cannot really compete with the internet as a mode of signal transfer for something as complex as mining?

mining withut the internet is possible onyl for educational purpose  with pencil and paper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3dqhixzGVo like the other said mining need communicate with other and internet is the bridge

As a beginner i think that is an interesting subject but is that really possible?

OP asked about Bitcoin mining which is a bit different than payments. Bitcoin mining makes excellent use of stranded power, which often times occurs in places without good internet.

Also, that decentralized bit improves the less we rely on incumbent sources of power and internet.

the internet is just the means of transferring data, it is totally incidental. if the internet is one day replaced by a better mode of data transfer, bitcoin transaction data will be sent on that instead. figuring out solutions to internet shutdowns only makes the network more robust.

Why not just build a very tall pole and mount a cellular 4GLTE antenna on top of the pole?

In my honest opinion, the whole point of Bitcoin is to be a decentralized payment network on Internet.
You making it "without internet" completely ruin the fundamentals of the project itself.

Maybe make your own cryptocurrency which works on satellite?

If you have SMS, you prolly have some cellular data too — why not just use that?

You could broadcast your blocks over Iridium SBD (LEO satellite). the (bare) modems cost about $120, the monthly line rental is like $15 and data is in the neighborhood of $1/KB. The good news is that Iridium has 100% global coverage at relatively low latency. This could also potentially be a use case for Iridium Certus 100, but I’m less familiar with the pricing there. groundcontrol.com / rock7.com is pretty friendly to diy users.

Sounds like a fun project!

This can help us. Interesting.

why would the sender have to be trusted? it's only a transaction. you could send the signed transaction data via text to anyone in the world who has an internet connection, all they would then have to do is broadcast from a node. there would be an incentive for people to set up anonymous nodes specifically for this purpose. you would just have to set up a node and provide a few mobile phone numbers for receiving transactions. you could also set up a virtual office to receive transaction data physically but that would be insane.

Problem with this is that even if you could find the solution then the latency will be bad enough that by the time your solution reaches another node there will already be a solved block.

"but is in no way a requirement for the network to be healthy and fully operational" Yes it's required, because as you know... and said... you will be in a "blackhole" of stale blocks

Blockstream was not developed for Mining Purpose, it is core-lightning Network solution... since beginn when Adam tried to push the idea, many people was not accepting because most people that time was looking for mining solution... well Peter and some other crypto guys from many places, like from Japan, Holland and Australia, they've started to show how it was possible to run the "lightningnetwork/ppa" ... I remembered ho Pi was very nice for that and how we could register all transactions... but the main purpose was to open a registration channel or a second backup line that could work as a "Liquid" side channel to guarantee the stable life of the $BTC ... specifically when it was necessary to confirm the transactions reducing delays and stopping the unconfirmated transfer of bitcoins... with the first real Huge Pump around 2017-2018 the things started to gain more attention and many exchanges started to adopt the Lightning Network. This process (for me) saves the Life of $BTC, but this is another discussion about forks whatever... focus on your issue... what you are trying to follow... as a Miner is (almost) completely insane... also Adam offers this service as a real Business Class for mining, called as "Blockstream Mining" ... but I'm completely sure that it's just another way to use a "middle central idea" to produce pow coins, exactly, as is produced from Asia Miners like Antminer or from all chinese "controlled" companies like  Viabtc Technology Limited... well if you want to mine, there is no other better way like to be fast and to have power... it is that... you need to have a real fast stable connection, really connected many nodes, 100% accurated and of course with power... I'm meaning hashrate a real decent hashrate... 

It's an interesting problem, let me throw my two sats here for some practical addressing to these problems (that means no IPoAC or Skylink, sorry guys )

In the case of radio, you could just convert the transaction bytes to morse and broadcast an (english or other languge) START TRANSACTION and END TRANSACTION codes, but its possible for some of the waves to get lost or distorted - it is basically an old-fasioned form of UDP.

So there would have to be checksums around the morse code to prevvent any of the bytes from being lost or corrupted. Not like a few bytes at the end, but redundant data carried around other packets, probably XOR'd together. Or like how QR codes do it.

SMS doesn't have this problem obviously, but it would have to be sent from a specific sender for it to be trusted.

Otherwise, any random bloke can submit a garbled or fake transaction.

Being a structure of bytes also, blocks can be transmitted in much the same way as transactions, only much larger.

Hmmm interesting consept.

Better don't get crazy, just use SkyLink

Well...

If you want to mine with weird technology, might as well go with the weirdest "official" one...

Transmit your packages with pigeons...



IP over Avian Carriers is a thing, more details available here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers

Line of sight is everything, good luck getting anything close to that range if you won't be cherry-picking your two points, the nature of earth is just "not so flat", we did manage to get connections close to 80km with Ubiquity but one of the antennas was placed on top of a very, very tall tower.

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OP I mined for 2-3 years without internet on site, but the farm was connected to the internet via a P2P setup, latency wasn't that bad and I hardly got any rejected/stale shares, your idea should work " at least in theory".

See Blockstream satellite ground stations are connected to the internet, you buy your own base station/dish and you connect to one of the satellites and those satellites keep your node synced with Blockstream ground stations that "are connected to the internet".


What you want to do here is actually have your own satellite ground station and not just a base station, and then once you hit a block, you want to transmit that to the satellites in space for them to re-transmit that block back to the earth so the block can be broadcasted to every mining node for them to stop working on that block.

Latency aside, this isn't a DIY project that can be done with no funding, if you can rent a satellite space and build/buy an uplink transmitter that can transmit blocks to the space -- then half the problem is solved.



BlockStream satellites do receive blocks from their own ground stations, you can't send them your blocks even if you had the means to do it.

You need to have a reasonable connection, otherwise you'll end up with stale blocks

You should take a look into point to point microwave wireless, such as those Ubiquity (2.4ghz/5ghz) antennas.

A bit more DIY could be using Wifi with unidirectional antennas, but they need to be pointed to each other. They have done 382 km!

Thing is those goTennas are way too slow (stay away from the locha scam). That sat link you mention is useless, unless its a proper sat link with bi directional data as some miners use (ie, in Africa, in the "middle of nowhere" but next to a hydro plant...). SMS? Nope