Monero terminated in Italy, along with other privacy coins

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 19, 2023, 09:19:13 AM

I've heard about upcoming updates being discussed that merge the Bitcoin network with the mimblewimble protocol, but this is not supposed to be done officially since both protocols are open source and any developer team can work on them.

That is the take. If it is not officially proposed/drafted in the bitcoin improvement proposals, it won't be implemented on Bitcoin.

Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 19, 2023, 09:19:13 AM

It is likely that if the update succeeds with Litecoin, the discussion about merging it with Bitcoin will become more serious. Of course, this is supposed to be expected during an appropriate time that may extend to several years. In the end, all hypotheses are possible and nothing is certain just as nothing is impossible.

The MimbleWimble has been activated for more than a year in Litecoin network, and so far I did not see any problem with their network. But it is still, there is no progress in Bitcoin which mentions the MWEB implementation proposal. There is some discussion, but nothing serious. If you take a look at the bitcoin mailing list, mimblewimble is hardly being talked about.

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Quote from: vv181 on August 18, 2023, 04:44:21 AM

Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 18, 2023, 01:34:16 AM

Quote from: vv181 on August 16, 2023, 11:31:56 PM

Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 16, 2023, 03:04:30 AM

Thanks for these important clarifications regarding Litecoin. I am sure that the questions have crossed the minds of many, and I am almost certain that no one has seen that explanatory article from Binance after the MumbleWimble update. According to the article, it is not possible to make withdrawals or deposits using the new update because the addresses used cannot be verified. This confirms the general trend of the platform to abandon all privacy coins.

I believe the decision that Litecoin trying to make is beneficial for its own ecosystem. There are some user who defies their decision due to an opt-in implementation of a privacy mechanism is meaningless, but looking at the bigger picture, Litecoin still be able to be listed on popular exchanges.

My take regarding the implementation is that the community playing on the safe side, they make it opt-in so centralized bodies like exchanges are still able to "control" it, and on the other hand, those who seek privacy are able to utilize the MimbleWimble transaction. It is a win-win solution.

~
This appeared when the launch of the Segwit update was studied in the Bitcoin network in 2015, so that the update would be launched on the Litecoin network in what looked like a trial phase, and after its success, it was activated in 2017 on the Bitcoin network.

The same thing happened before the launch of the Lightning Network, as it was tested on the Litecoin network before being activated on the Bitcoin network.

Now we are dealing with the MimbleWimble update which is also scheduled to include the Bitcoin network and here is Litecoin supporting it on his network. I think it's a trial period, as usual, before it includes the Bitcoin blockchain.

Litecoin is a fork of Bitcoin, so they are sharing a similar codebase. But that does not mean or imply any Bitcoin improvements are only or directly tested on Litecoin. Bitcoin developments do have a rigorous process and their own testing process.

In regard to MimbleWimble, as far as I know, there is not any plan that Bitcoin will implement the system. We can see on the bitcoin improvement proposal repository: https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Abitcoin%2Fbips%20mimblewimble&type=code, that MW implementation does not exist.

The Bitcoin communities do already talking and discussing the MW implementation on Bitcoin but until today, we seem to haven't reached any conclusion on that developments.

According to the information available to me, even the previous updates in which Litecoin was preceded by Bitcoin, this was not within the framework of a plan from the developers. I mean, when we say that a trial period was with Litecoin before confirming its update on the Bitcoin network, it was in the form of diligence by the Litecoin developer team due to the similarities between the two networks.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/litecoin.asp

I've heard about upcoming updates being discussed that merge the Bitcoin network with the mimblewimble protocol, but this is not supposed to be done officially since both protocols are open source and any developer team can work on them.

It is likely that if the update succeeds with Litecoin, the discussion about merging it with Bitcoin will become more serious. Of course, this is supposed to be expected during an appropriate time that may extend to several years. In the end, all hypotheses are possible and nothing is certain just as nothing is impossible.

vv181

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 18, 2023, 01:34:16 AM

Quote from: vv181 on August 16, 2023, 11:31:56 PM

Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 16, 2023, 03:04:30 AM

Thanks for these important clarifications regarding Litecoin. I am sure that the questions have crossed the minds of many, and I am almost certain that no one has seen that explanatory article from Binance after the MumbleWimble update. According to the article, it is not possible to make withdrawals or deposits using the new update because the addresses used cannot be verified. This confirms the general trend of the platform to abandon all privacy coins.

I believe the decision that Litecoin trying to make is beneficial for its own ecosystem. There are some user who defies their decision due to an opt-in implementation of a privacy mechanism is meaningless, but looking at the bigger picture, Litecoin still be able to be listed on popular exchanges.

My take regarding the implementation is that the community playing on the safe side, they make it opt-in so centralized bodies like exchanges are still able to "control" it, and on the other hand, those who seek privacy are able to utilize the MimbleWimble transaction. It is a win-win solution.

~
This appeared when the launch of the Segwit update was studied in the Bitcoin network in 2015, so that the update would be launched on the Litecoin network in what looked like a trial phase, and after its success, it was activated in 2017 on the Bitcoin network.

The same thing happened before the launch of the Lightning Network, as it was tested on the Litecoin network before being activated on the Bitcoin network.

Now we are dealing with the MimbleWimble update which is also scheduled to include the Bitcoin network and here is Litecoin supporting it on his network. I think it's a trial period, as usual, before it includes the Bitcoin blockchain.

Litecoin is a fork of Bitcoin, so they are sharing a similar codebase. But that does not mean or imply any Bitcoin improvements are only or directly tested on Litecoin. Bitcoin developments do have a rigorous process and their own testing process.

In regard to MimbleWimble, as far as I know, there is not any plan that Bitcoin will implement the system. We can see on the bitcoin improvement proposal repository: https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Abitcoin%2Fbips%20mimblewimble&type=code, that MW implementation does not exist.

The Bitcoin communities do already talking and discussing the MW implementation on Bitcoin but until today, we seem to haven't reached any conclusion on that developments.

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Quote from: vv181 on August 16, 2023, 11:31:56 PM

Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 16, 2023, 03:04:30 AM

Thanks for these important clarifications regarding Litecoin. I am sure that the questions have crossed the minds of many, and I am almost certain that no one has seen that explanatory article from Binance after the MumbleWimble update. According to the article, it is not possible to make withdrawals or deposits using the new update because the addresses used cannot be verified. This confirms the general trend of the platform to abandon all privacy coins.

I believe the decision that Litecoin trying to make is beneficial for its own ecosystem. There are some user who defies their decision due to an opt-in implementation of a privacy mechanism is meaningless, but looking at the bigger picture, Litecoin still be able to be listed on popular exchanges.

My take regarding the implementation is that the community playing on the safe side, they make it opt-in so centralized bodies like exchanges are still able to "control" it, and on the other hand, those who seek privacy are able to utilize the MimbleWimble transaction. It is a win-win solution.

Litecoin is nothing but a light version of Bitcoin since it was launched according to the same protocol with the addition of modifications that distinguish it and make it work more efficiently. The biggest difference between the two networks is that Bitcoin is completely decentralized, including decision-making power over development. Whereas, Litecoin has the developer's decision-making authority to activate updates as it deems appropriate.

This appeared when the launch of the Segwit update was studied in the Bitcoin network in 2015, so that the update would be launched on the Litecoin network in what looked like a trial phase, and after its success, it was activated in 2017 on the Bitcoin network.

The same thing happened before the launch of the Lightning Network, as it was tested on the Litecoin network before being activated on the Bitcoin network.

Now we are dealing with the MimbleWimble update which is also scheduled to include the Bitcoin network and here is Litecoin supporting it on his network. I think it's a trial period, as usual, before it includes the Bitcoin blockchain.

vv181

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Quote from: vv181 on August 14, 2023, 09:18:54 AM

They trying at their best to imitate any usage of transactions with a strong privacy technologies.

My autocorrect got the wrong word, I mean mitigate, not imitate.

Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 16, 2023, 03:04:30 AM

Thanks for these important clarifications regarding Litecoin. I am sure that the questions have crossed the minds of many, and I am almost certain that no one has seen that explanatory article from Binance after the MumbleWimble update. According to the article, it is not possible to make withdrawals or deposits using the new update because the addresses used cannot be verified. This confirms the general trend of the platform to abandon all privacy coins.

I believe the decision that Litecoin trying to make is beneficial for its own ecosystem. There are some user who defies their decision due to an opt-in implementation of a privacy mechanism is meaningless, but looking at the bigger picture, Litecoin still be able to be listed on popular exchanges.

My take regarding the implementation is that the community playing on the safe side, they make it opt-in so centralized bodies like exchanges are still able to "control" it, and on the other hand, those who seek privacy are able to utilize the MimbleWimble transaction. It is a win-win solution.

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Quote from: vv181 on August 14, 2023, 09:18:54 AM

Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 13, 2023, 03:45:18 PM

What caught my attention in the list of currencies is that there are no other currencies among them that have a high degree of privacy, such as the Grin currency, which was developed according to the famous mimblewimble protocol, like which we find the BEAM currency that uses the same protocol, but the BEAM currency has been canceled while Grin is still listed . Even the Litecoin currency, it had announced its merger with the mimblewimble protocol in order to become completely secure and maintain privacy, despite this, Litecoin is still listed on Binance.

That is because Litecoin MibleWimble implementation is opt-in, it is completely different from say like Monero or any other cryptocurrency where the implementation of the privacy mechanism is by-default.

Binance has known that blocks Litecoin's MimbleWimble transactions, take a look at https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/notice-on-deposits-and-withdrawals-of-litecoin-ltc-utilizing-mimblewimble-extension-blocks-mweb-61d4510b1ada4ba78b5384e8c2d3527c.

It is pretty clear the only reason they still list Litecoin is because of the nature of the privacy features implementations. Certainly, as a centralized body, they won't take a single bet to accept a strict and strong cryptocurrency that contains privacy features for any usage. They trying at their best to imitate any usage of transactions with a strong privacy technologies.

Thanks for these important clarifications regarding Litecoin. I am sure that the questions have crossed the minds of many, and I am almost certain that no one has seen that explanatory article from Binance after the MumbleWimble update. According to the article, it is not possible to make withdrawals or deposits using the new update because the addresses used cannot be verified. This confirms the general trend of the platform to abandon all privacy coins.

Quote from: https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/notice-on-deposits-and-withdrawals-of-litecoin-ltc-utilizing-mimblewimble-extension-blocks-mweb-61d4510b1ada4ba78b5384e8c2d3527c

Any LTC deposits made to Binance through the MWEB function will not be received or returned as we are unable to verify the sender's address, resulting in the direct loss of funds. To ensure security of your funds, please do not deposit LTC through the MWEB function.

I would also like to point out that I made a mistake in my previous comment about Grin because after checking the markets, I found that Binance does not list it. In this way, it can be approved that Binance does not list any privacy coins on its market, meaning that the last privacy opportunities on the platform have been canceled forever.

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Quote from: Little Mouse on May 31, 2023, 01:21:15 PM

It was supposed to be followed by all the countries. I remember after the 2018 significant altcoin season, there were countries popping up which was talking more against privacy coins. Well, it's not really possible to regulate privacy coins because of the nature of the txs. Maybe privacy coins will have an end due to regulation. It's going to be followed everywhere and I doubt with such regulation, people would simply use privacy coins to hide their financial activity.

Not really that totally been shocked with this news and its true that its been a while or going back into those several years earlier on which on the time that these full privacy coins had emerged specially that
XMR and ZCASH as far as i remember where it did really make out that kind of buzz in speaking about that fully anonymous since transactions cant really be able to trace up and this is something that government
doesnt really like on the first place and now having this kind of removal doesnt really give me some shock or even to those people who had been anticipating for this thing.

Government doesnt really like on things which cant be controlled or totally anonymous and since these platforms are heavily regulated or abiding government rules then for sure they would be simply be
that obeying on what the government been saying or trying out to impose. If there's some removal or delisting which it doesnt mean that its already over and we do have that other places
on which we can able to deal with if ever we do own one of those, this isnt only talking about Binance though.

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on August 13, 2023, 03:45:18 PM

What caught my attention in the list of currencies is that there are no other currencies among them that have a high degree of privacy, such as the Grin currency, which was developed according to the famous mimblewimble protocol, like which we find the BEAM currency that uses the same protocol, but the BEAM currency has been canceled while Grin is still listed . Even the Litecoin currency, it had announced its merger with the mimblewimble protocol in order to become completely secure and maintain privacy, despite this, Litecoin is still listed on Binance.

That is because Litecoin MibleWimble implementation is opt-in, it is completely different from say like Monero or any other cryptocurrency where the implementation of the privacy mechanism is by-default.

Binance has known that blocks Litecoin's MimbleWimble transactions, take a look at https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/notice-on-deposits-and-withdrawals-of-litecoin-ltc-utilizing-mimblewimble-extension-blocks-mweb-61d4510b1ada4ba78b5384e8c2d3527c.

It is pretty clear the only reason they still list Litecoin is because of the nature of the privacy features implementations. Certainly, as a centralized body, they won't take a single bet to accept a strict and strong cryptocurrency that contains privacy features for any usage. They trying at their best to imitate any usage of transactions with a strong privacy technologies.

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Expect that this will happen to those privacy coins since this could be use to any other illegal activities and government of Italy is just doing a good counter measure regarding on those issues. I guess this termination or banning will not stop here since in future we might gonna see more like this especially that government want transparency and want to minimize the money laundering issues also maybe with scamming's happening.

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I was not surprised that Binance took this step, especially with the increasing demands to impose more control measures on user activities. Some countries that are keen to monitor the financial activities of their citizens will not hesitate to formally request this from the Binance administration, which will not refuse in order not to lose an important user base. All this is a possible result of US policies towards trading platforms after what happened last year with the collapse of the FTX platform.

What caught my attention in the list of currencies is that there are no other currencies among them that have a high degree of privacy, such as the Grin currency, which was developed according to the famous mimblewimble protocol, like which we find the BEAM currency that uses the same protocol, but the BEAM currency has been canceled while Grin is still listed . Even the Litecoin currency, it had announced its merger with the mimblewimble protocol in order to become completely secure and maintain privacy, despite this, Litecoin is still listed on Binance.

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Quote from: DavideBaldini on May 31, 2023, 11:57:10 AM

I received this email notification from Binance, it appears that privacy currencies are being terminated throughout Italy. Translated from Italian

This is wrong information, they are not terminated anywhere and this is totally different from delisting from centralized exchanges, there are a bunch of options to exchange coins using dex exchanges like Bisq or other p2p trading options.

There is obviously a global agenda against privacy in all areas of life and they are preparing for CBDC crap, but people can still use whatever they want.

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 31, 2023, 08:35:09 PM

This is expected. This has been the talk of the town for years. Monero must have already caught the attention of the authorities ever since the Silk Road days. That was a long time ago. Years later, the IRS itself also offered more than half a million dollars as bounty to whoever cracks Monero. That was a desperate move and a humiliating admission that even the most powerful agencies could be helpless in dealing with privacy coins.

Of course, it is expected. Governments will ban everything they can't control. Monero just falls into this category.

Quote from: Darker45 on May 31, 2023, 08:35:09 PM

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Monero will have to be banned. It was just a matter of time. More countries will certainly follow.

I can't help but agree. Italy, which banned xmr, will be followed by other countries. Surprisingly, this process has just begun. How long have they been looking for ways to influence the Binance.

Quote from: Darker45 on May 31, 2023, 08:35:09 PM

But no big deal. After all, Monero isn't really tailored for the likes of Binance and other centralized exchanges that are all too willing to lick dirty asses for money. It has its own unique functions. It is to privacy coins as Bitcoin is to cryptocurrencies.

Yeah, there seems to be nothing critical and there are practically no levers of influence on monero. People will be able to use xmr directly- p2p, as before, without intermediary exchanges like Binance. No matter how difficult it is for monero users, it is impossible to completely ban it.

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Quote from: Smartprofit on June 01, 2023, 04:25:21 PM

~snip~

I can't imagine a situation in which Bitcoin would be destroyed (what exactly does destroyed mean?), and that some altcoin could then come as an adequate replacement that people would accept to the same extent as Bitcoin. Every decentralized cryptocurrency in the true sense of the word is actually a target, and if you just remove it from all CEXs, all that will remain is some trivial thing that will be used by a very small number of people.

The so-called privacy coins are something that will gradually disappear in all countries where there is strict crypto regulation. In my country, an official ban was not even needed, because all local CEXs just received a recommendation to remove these coins from their offer, and they simply did that a few years ago.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 31, 2023, 10:14:21 PM

Quote from: Little Mouse on May 31, 2023, 01:21:15 PM

Well, it's not really possible to regulate privacy coins because of the nature of the txs.

Sure, it's impossible to stop the use of coins like the ones mentioned in OP's announcement, if you eliminate the markets for those coins one by one until they're all gone, who's really going to use them? As a practical matter, none of those privacy coins are used to buy anything (except maybe on the dark market, but I doubt even there) so with no way to even trade them, I seriously doubt people would want to own them--with perhaps XMR being the exception. Their community seems pretty hardcore.

This is just Binance, thankfully, even though they're one of the biggest exchanges worldwide. It's still unfortunate that eliminating cryptocurrencies that offer more privacy than bitcoin seems to be the trend among exchanges. I did notice that Kucoin no longer lists PIVX, though I'm not sure about any of the others.

Monero is a very important coin for the entire crypto industry.

In essence, it is an alternative to bitcoin. Many of the ideas that the legendary Satoshi Nakamoto did not have time to implement in the Bitcoin code were implemented in the Monero code (by the developer Riccardo Spagni and other enthusiasts of this coin).

Let's imagine a situation where bitcoin is destroyed (assume that the governments of all countries manage to unite their efforts for this).

In this case, people will need a new coin with a PoW consensus algorithm (a coin that will be able to successfully function in the face of persecution by government regulators).

Monero (with its high standards of anonymity and privacy) is likely to be such a coin.

This is one of the reasons why many governments avoid direct aggressive attack on Bitcoin (the XMR alternative is much worse for them).

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 31, 2023, 10:14:21 PM

Quote from: Little Mouse on May 31, 2023, 01:21:15 PM

Well, it's not really possible to regulate privacy coins because of the nature of the txs.

Sure, it's impossible to stop the use of coins like the ones mentioned in OP's announcement, if you eliminate the markets for those coins one by one until they're all gone, who's really going to use them? As a practical matter, none of those privacy coins are used to buy anything (except maybe on the dark market, but I doubt even there) so with no way to even trade them, I seriously doubt people would want to own them--with perhaps XMR being the exception. Their community seems pretty hardcore.

I am not sure that the privacy coins are going into extinction any soon. By the way, the privacy coins are just like every other cryptocurrency running on the blockchain, just that they provide additional layer of privacy. As the government go against them, they device means to remain in circulation. This could be because they have shady industries and persons willing to use them at all cost just like the case of mixers.
Concerning the use case of these privacy coins, as you rightly mentioned, these coins aren't used to buy the early morning coffee or everyday groceries. They are mostly used for shady deals such as the ones that happen in the darknet, money laundry, and the most scary to the government is arms deals relating to espionage.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 31, 2023, 10:14:21 PM

This is just Binance, thankfully, even though they're one of the biggest exchanges worldwide. It's still unfortunate that eliminating cryptocurrencies that offer more privacy than bitcoin seems to be the trend among exchanges. I did notice that Kucoin no longer lists PIVX, though I'm not sure about any of the others.

The privacy coins should also understand that they don't have future with the CEX. Decentralized exchanges could be their safe haven. Once a country bans the use of a particular privacy coin and exchanges in such country delist the coin, the price of such coin is always impacted negatively and that is the smoothest means for a privacy coin project to fail.

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It is only some time before all centralized exchanges stop accepting privacy coins. You will not be able to deposit or withdraw. decentralized one will be your only option if you want to enjoy some privacy.
The funny thing is that many currencies, which used to take privacy as their slogan, have tried to stop that.
Does anyone know what happens to currencies that have privacy-enhancing features like Litecoin or Mimblewimble? I didn't find it on that list

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You will always be able to exchange Monero with other cryptocurrencies using most of these decentralized exchanges, it's just that the CEX's don't want to deal with them anymore (or are forced not to). The same goes for some other privacy coins such as Dash and ZCash, though you might have a hard time finding a ZCash exchanger.

Still, it won't do anything to stop crime, as criminals will just convert monero using OTC trades to other currencies and then cash them out at exchanges. It doesn't matter if you take down every XMR exchange site for that matter.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 31, 2023, 10:14:21 PM

-snip-
This is just Binance, thankfully, even though they're one of the biggest exchanges worldwide.

I think binance is the first exchange in the "experimental" phase of the new local requirements because it's the biggest entities (as they also do ChatGPT for privacy concerns) which is good to see the impact. However, almost all the top exchanges that I know of are listing these privacy coins that eventually they will slowly become the object of the same operational requirements.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 31, 2023, 10:14:21 PM

As a practical matter, none of those privacy coins are used to buy anything (except maybe on the dark market, but I doubt even there) so with no way to even trade them, I seriously doubt people would want to own them--with perhaps XMR being the exception. Their community seems pretty hardcore.

Bitcoin is widely accepted everywhere including the dark market but Monero is also not so little. According to an analysis by HollandFintech, Bitcoin is accepted by 91% darknet marketplaces (accepting at least 1 cryptocurrencies), 79% accept Monero, 21% accept Litecoin and there are few more coins too. 69% of the darknet marketplaces accept 2 or more cryptocurrencies. Though Bitcoin acceptance is quite high, Monero is widely accepted in dark market. Of course, because people are still using them.

Quote

I did notice that Kucoin no longer lists PIVX, though I'm not sure about any of the others.

XMR is still there in Kucoin. ZEC is also there. But it's jsut matter of time I think, Kucoin will also follow the same. Kucoin is more open to work with regulation but good thing is they aren't as shady as Binance.

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Quote from: Little Mouse on May 31, 2023, 01:21:15 PM

Well, it's not really possible to regulate privacy coins because of the nature of the txs.

Sure, it's impossible to stop the use of coins like the ones mentioned in OP's announcement, if you eliminate the markets for those coins one by one until they're all gone, who's really going to use them? As a practical matter, none of those privacy coins are used to buy anything (except maybe on the dark market, but I doubt even there) so with no way to even trade them, I seriously doubt people would want to own them--with perhaps XMR being the exception. Their community seems pretty hardcore.

This is just Binance, thankfully, even though they're one of the biggest exchanges worldwide. It's still unfortunate that eliminating cryptocurrencies that offer more privacy than bitcoin seems to be the trend among exchanges. I did notice that Kucoin no longer lists PIVX, though I'm not sure about any of the others.

Topic: Monero terminated in Italy, along with other privacy coins (Read 286 times)