Topic: Money over IP a threat to bitcoin - page 3. (Read 9067 times)
We've been over this before only with Ripple being a threat instead of this thing. I don't buy into anything that is still based on our current outdated fiat system, this only builds on what already exists and there's nothing revolutionary about it. It may become a fad, but ultimately it will go down with the fiat system. Good luck to those who think it's the next big thing, not for me.
It looks like Paypal, for mobile. Are payments reversible or not?
The issue with btc is that the price is volatile, thus the utility of btc must surpass the costs associated with hedging against volatility
There are a limited number of applications were the anonymity and cross border functionality make use of btc a net positive, buying coffee, buying gas, grocery shopping or paying your rent is not among them.
gambling, remittances, bypassing intl wire and exchange fees, investment in the thing, buying herb online, avoiding merchant tx fees and not waiting a couple weeks to get your money from visa/mc
As an inflationary hedge it has a limited audience.
There are a limited number of applications were the anonymity and cross border functionality make use of btc a net positive, buying coffee, buying gas, grocery shopping or paying your rent is not among them.
gambling, remittances, bypassing intl wire and exchange fees, investment in the thing, buying herb online, avoiding merchant tx fees and not waiting a couple weeks to get your money from visa/mc
As an inflationary hedge it has a limited audience.
I think the masses will be the last into bitcoin, too late to get any benefit from being early adopters, thats just the way the cookie crumbles. Until then they will continue as they are, not really noticing that the value of their money keeps decreasing relentlessly.
[/quote]
And bitcoiners dont' have to care about "the masses". Even if it remains a niche, it will continue to grow dramatically. There is plenty of demand for a trustworthy currency. Other than bitcoin and altcoins, there is no competition.
[/quote]
strongly disagree. if no mass adoption happens it will die a slow, painful death.
@adpinbr: i now how you are feeling. this "we may all be fooled" fear. we can only hope that the masses will see the difference between centralized/fiat-based and distributed/algorithm-based.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDDsELTDiHQ
The highest view count on YouTube for Venmo (link above) is 12,962 and was uploaded on April 22, 2010.
The high view count is probably why Braintree purchased it for...wait for it...$26.2M USD: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/payments-start-up-braintree-buys-venmo-for-26-2-million/?_r=2
Luckily, Braintree is a major brand which can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixj5-tlTeSw
Pay no attention to the view count of 7,050 (highest video view count on YT) or the Jun 10, 2010 upload date.
Bitcoin has higher view counts with some Hitler parody videos, thus concluding that Venmo's user base is not that high, and that Braintree was high on crack when they bought it.
To drive my point home, consider the following: I just sold my barn wood business to an undisclosed buyer for $3.5M USD. Now that I'm a VC, I going to invest it all in Coinabul or Dank's Magical Mystery Tour.
The highest view count on YouTube for Venmo (link above) is 12,962 and was uploaded on April 22, 2010.
The high view count is probably why Braintree purchased it for...wait for it...$26.2M USD: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/payments-start-up-braintree-buys-venmo-for-26-2-million/?_r=2
Luckily, Braintree is a major brand which can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixj5-tlTeSw
Pay no attention to the view count of 7,050 (highest video view count on YT) or the Jun 10, 2010 upload date.
Bitcoin has higher view counts with some Hitler parody videos, thus concluding that Venmo's user base is not that high, and that Braintree was high on crack when they bought it.
To drive my point home, consider the following: I just sold my barn wood business to an undisclosed buyer for $3.5M USD. Now that I'm a VC, I going to invest it all in Coinabul or Dank's Magical Mystery Tour.
Quote
The app links your Facebook friends and email contacts to your bank account. All data is sent over a 256-bit encrypted connection—the same encryption method used to protect classified government information—and transactions are protected by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.
Use Venmo on the new iPhone equipped with the fingerprint reader and you're golden.
Quote
The simple act of convincing enough friends to use the service makes it useful.
And Bitcoin isn't at $500 per because...
Exactly! Fuck... That... Shit.
No effect on BTC price. Maybe help it a bit like Dwolla. Do I *have* to link a FB to it? If so, no thanks, not ever.
Quote
The app links your Facebook friends and email contacts to your bank account. All data is sent over a 256-bit encrypted connection—the same encryption method used to protect classified government information—and transactions are protected by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.
Use Venmo on the new iPhone equipped with the fingerprint reader and you're golden.
Quote
The simple act of convincing enough friends to use the service makes it useful.
And Bitcoin isn't at $500 per because...
Quote
WHAT BANKS WORK WITH VENMO?
Your Venmo account works with all the major banks in the United States.
WHAT COUNTRIES CAN I USE VENMO IN?
Venmo can only be used in the U.S.
Your Venmo account works with all the major banks in the United States.
WHAT COUNTRIES CAN I USE VENMO IN?
Venmo can only be used in the U.S.
Well that eliminates what, 96% of the world from using it?
It looks no better than Paypal - just with a nicer, social interface.
LOL
Some people believe USSA = the world
[/thread]
The digital aspect of venmo sounds like a nice little addition to what we currently have as online banking, but it's certainly nothing revolutionary or interesting at all (just from what I've heard)... it might have some effect in delaying the critical mass of bitcoin adaption, but ultimately I think society will gradually move away from the privately controlled banking system and get further into crypto as the technology around it continues to improve.
Quote
Venmo first went online in August 2009 and was released to the public last year after two years of beta testing; a few months later, the credit-card processing company Braintree bought it for $26.2 million. The company doesn’t publicize the number of users it has, but according to the New York Times, as of its public debut Venmo was processing around $10 million in payments per month and growing by 30 percent per month.
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/08/venmo_review_the_wallet_app_is_light_years_ahead_of_paypal.htmlIn 2009, Dwolla did ~$200k its first month (they opened in December). http://www.businessinsider.com/this-28-year-old-is-making-sure-credit-cards-wont-exist-in-the-next-few-years-2011-11
In 2010,
In 2011, Dwolla was doing ~$30-50M per month on average (just the later months?). http://www.businessinsider.com/this-28-year-old-is-making-sure-credit-cards-wont-exist-in-the-next-few-years-2011-11
In 2012 & 2013,
I'm not sure how to compare them since Venmo had a 2-year beta phase and with the limited info.
Quote
Venmo first went online in August 2009 and was released to the public last year after two years of beta testing; a few months later, the credit-card processing company Braintree bought it for $26.2 million. The company doesn’t publicize the number of users it has, but according to the New York Times, as of its public debut Venmo was processing around $10 million in payments per month and growing by 30 percent per month.
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/08/venmo_review_the_wallet_app_is_light_years_ahead_of_paypal.html 
I got a Venmo "friend request" from a from a somewhat tech-savvy person a couple days ago.
Did not follow up, but given that I have yet to receive a Bitcoin payment request from anybody I know (or even Paypal, for that matter), based on this single data point, I'm tempted to take this company slightly more seriously as a money transmission competitor.
As many have pointed out, Bitcoin is much more than just cheap money transmission. But the value proposition of its other properties is much more difficult to understand for the average person, at least until the next financial crisis. So there is a time window during which a competitive transmission service could gain significant mindshare if it goes viral quickly enough.
Did not follow up, but given that I have yet to receive a Bitcoin payment request from anybody I know (or even Paypal, for that matter), based on this single data point, I'm tempted to take this company slightly more seriously as a money transmission competitor.
As many have pointed out, Bitcoin is much more than just cheap money transmission. But the value proposition of its other properties is much more difficult to understand for the average person, at least until the next financial crisis. So there is a time window during which a competitive transmission service could gain significant mindshare if it goes viral quickly enough.
Only thing they appear to have over Dwolla is that they take plastic (with roughly the same fee as Paypal), which makes it irrelevant since Paypal is generally used in conjunction with Dwolla, instead of Dwolla being the only choice. For mobile payments, at least in the US, this is taken care of with direct billing on cell charges (though most [all?] app stores have their own payment processor, too] - so I can't think of a market they're filling there. Unlike Bitcoin, Venmo has many direct competitors they don't offer something significant over. Dwolla's obscure -- why will Venmo be any different?
taking plastic is a huge advantage for adoption rates cause its simple to set up, Facebook didn't have any clear cut advantage over friendster/myspace from a functional point of view. but it had a great UI and it was cool and it caught on. Same thing i happening now, you can chef the adoption rates, venmo is out for a shorter period and has more users than dwolla, and the trend will continue
Only thing they appear to have over Dwolla is that they take plastic (with roughly the same fee as Paypal), which makes it irrelevant since Paypal is generally used in conjunction with Dwolla, instead of Dwolla being the only choice. For mobile payments, at least in the US, this is taken care of with direct billing on cell charges (though most [all?] app stores have their own payment processor, too] - so I can't think of a market they're filling there. Unlike Bitcoin, Venmo has many direct competitors they don't offer something significant over. Dwolla's obscure -- why will Venmo be any different?
taking plastic is a huge advantage for adoption rates cause its simple to set up, Facebook didn't have any clear cut advantage over friendster/myspace from a functional point of view. but it had a great UI and it was cool and it caught on. Same thing i happening now, you can chef the adoption rates, venmo is out for a shorter period and has more users than dwolla, and the trend will continue
Only thing they appear to have over Dwolla is that they take plastic (with roughly the same fee as Paypal), which makes it irrelevant since Paypal is generally used in conjunction with Dwolla, instead of Dwolla being the only choice. For mobile payments, at least in the US, this is taken care of with direct billing on cell charges (though most [all?] app stores have their own payment processor, too] - so I can't think of a market they're filling there. Unlike Bitcoin, Venmo has many direct competitors they don't offer something significant over. Dwolla's obscure -- why will Venmo be any different?
Quote
WHAT BANKS WORK WITH VENMO?
Your Venmo account works with all the major banks in the United States.
WHAT COUNTRIES CAN I USE VENMO IN?
Venmo can only be used in the U.S.
Your Venmo account works with all the major banks in the United States.
WHAT COUNTRIES CAN I USE VENMO IN?
Venmo can only be used in the U.S.
Well that eliminates what, 96% of the world from using it?
It looks no better than Paypal - just with a nicer, social interface.
I've been saying this for a while. Venmo is the most viable, but there are many other mobile payment providers coming onto the scene. This should have been expected, though.
Interface is much better than Paypal. It's quite intuitive and fits the "social networking" niche far better than bitcoin could ever dream. Regardless of anything else, laymen will understand and be willing to use Venmo much more easily than bitcoin.
Interface is much better than Paypal. It's quite intuitive and fits the "social networking" niche far better than bitcoin could ever dream. Regardless of anything else, laymen will understand and be willing to use Venmo much more easily than bitcoin.
Isn't it based on or in fiat? If so, it doesn't change the underlying issue.
The masses don't care about the "underlying issue". they care about Prada, george zimmerman and pictures of their brunch
And bitcoiners dont' have to care about "the masses". Even if it remains a niche, it will continue to grow dramatically.
If we don't care about the masses then the value of bitcoin stems from one of 2 things IMHO.
a. Financial safe haven- this will require some sort of "mass" recognition, even if its just from a fraction of the financial industry
b. greater fool theory- there is nothing here, and you are just ridding the bubble up cause you are a relative early adopter
The masses are happy holding depreciating IOU notes, do you see them fleeing to safe havens? Wealth will flow to BTC as the market comes to understand BTC is the neo safe haven amongst else.
I've been saying this for a while. Venmo is the most viable, but there are many other mobile payment providers coming onto the scene. This should have been expected, though.
Interface is much better than Paypal. It's quite intuitive and fits the "social networking" niche far better than bitcoin could ever dream. Regardless of anything else, laymen will understand and be willing to use Venmo much more easily than bitcoin.
Interface is much better than Paypal. It's quite intuitive and fits the "social networking" niche far better than bitcoin could ever dream. Regardless of anything else, laymen will understand and be willing to use Venmo much more easily than bitcoin.
Isn't it based on or in fiat? If so, it doesn't change the underlying issue.
The masses don't care about the "underlying issue". they care about Prada, george zimmerman and pictures of their brunch
I was just thinking about this today. There will probably be some mobile payment providers that will be quite successful before Bitcoin takes off. It will just pave the way for Bitcoin though so I would not be concerned. It will still be hard to transfer large amounts of money securely and it has the same issue of being fiat and will lose value.
Eventually some stories about how people have made millions from bitcoin, or smart investors that realize the potential convince less smart people to invest in BTC will be what helps it to grow.
I've been saying this for a while. Venmo is the most viable, but there are many other mobile payment providers coming onto the scene. This should have been expected, though.
Interface is much better than Paypal. It's quite intuitive and fits the "social networking" niche far better than bitcoin could ever dream. Regardless of anything else, laymen will understand and be willing to use Venmo much more easily than bitcoin.
Interface is much better than Paypal. It's quite intuitive and fits the "social networking" niche far better than bitcoin could ever dream. Regardless of anything else, laymen will understand and be willing to use Venmo much more easily than bitcoin.
Isn't it based on or in fiat? If so, it doesn't change the underlying issue.
The masses don't care about the "underlying issue". they care about Prada, george zimmerman and pictures of their brunch
And bitcoiners dont' have to care about "the masses". Even if it remains a niche, it will continue to grow dramatically.
If we don't care about the masses then the value of bitcoin stems from one of 2 things IMHO.
a. Financial safe haven- this will require some sort of "mass" recognition, even if its just from a fraction of the financial industry
b. greater fool theory- there is nothing here, and you are just ridding the bubble up cause you are a relative early adopter
The answer is a. And no, it doesn't require the masses. Just as precious metal investors are a niche.
The other answer is remittances and international settlements. Venmo is US only. What about the other 95.6% of the world population?
Jump to: