Topic: Moneypot or Bitdice - page 2. (Read 3497 times)

Seeing as though you added this I'll re reply.
You're not taking into account the 10% paid out off the top, nor are you taking into account the buyback of LIR from the exchange nor are you even considering the fact that when the site sells (if it does) we all get to share in that, while if you sell moneypot all the investors get is a pat on the back and a big thank you.

If you want to do the math, include the 10% off the top, include a potential purchase price and include the 10% buyback.

OK?

LOL, are you stupid???
Its impossible to base your answer on math when LIR is not even operational yet.
To base it on math we at least need a sample of LIR's profits, amount wagered, users ect.
All we can base it on is projected ability to take market share and just based on their name I think they can take a lot from the existing players.
But I will look you up when the time comes and collect my free btc's. Thanks for making me such a generous offer. I appreciate it.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free  


Just to help out with the math (once again):

Assume somehow LIR manages to match MoneyPot in volume (which it won't):

100 BTC LIR

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

LIR investors = 0.15 BTC (since investors get 15% of profit)

100 BTC MP

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

MP investors = 0.30 BTC (since investors get 30% of the edge)

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

LIR sockpuppets / trolls back at it again. Read the title of the thread before posting.

First bolded part: This is false. Technically, you are always at the mercy of the site not running off on you. Assume in a hypothetical scenario where no casino runs off. This would mean that you can pull your funds off of the established sites at anytime, since they do not sell profit share, you are simply parking your funds in their bankroll. With LIR, you are at the mercy of the site because you cannot pull your funds out, you need LIR to generate profit.

To the underlined portion: This is very false. LIR gives the least back to stakeholders of any site, this is basic math and not arguable. Every other site offers investors a range of 30-90% of the house edge. LIR gives 15%+ a buy back (which is NOT necessarily profit, simply a return of capital. The only way it is profit is if "Y" (buy back price) - "X" (original investment price) has a remainder. The remainder is profit). If you are a top 10 holder, you get an additional 10%. So basically, assuming you are a top 10 investor, you get 25% back. This is lower than everyone else.

The way LIR investment works:
- You invest in profit share. You cannot pull your funds out at anytime (unlike any other publicly bankrolled casino other than CBTC)
- LIR uses 10% of profit to buy back tokens
- LIR pays 15% to holders
- LIR pays the top 10 coin holders an additional 10%
- If they sell their site, 35% of the purchase price goes to token holders

There is no added upside to investing in profit share in a casino then there is to bankroll it.

Casino "x" = profit share casino
Casino "y" = bankroll casino

Each has 100 BTC bankroll.

Casino "x" gives you 15% profit share (I will even assume casino is giving 15% of revenue instead of profit).
- 1000BTC volume * 1% HE = 1 BTC expected profit

Profit = 1 BTC
Investors get 15% of 1 BTC, or 0.15 BTC


Casino "y" gives you 90% of the EV
- 1000BTC volume * 1% HE = 1 BTC expected profit
Investors get 90% of 1 BTC, or 0.9 BTC

Obviously the percentage of the EV is not the only thing that matters, the real thing that matters is what gives you the greatest expected return which would be (volume * bankroll share of HE * your percentage of bankroll), sites that do more volume are more attractive options to investors.


Unless you think LIR is going to do several times the volume of every other casino, its a bad investment.

Im investing in LIR
LetItRide

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1511021.0;

I feel like getting in during the beginning of a site offers much more upside potential then getting in once the site is established. If you get in once it's established then you're at the mercy of the site and their offer. None of the already established players will give away such a large portion of their profits to new investors. They may have back in the day when they were new but not anymore.
Like with LIR you can share in 25% of house profits and the devs are using 10% of house profits to buy LIR from the market. Show me another dice site that offers even close to that kind of return potential.  

With so many ways to make money its a nobrainer to invest in LIR over some of the other sites.

You might want to remember that moneypot has been around for quite awhile and has many casinos tied up with their bank roll so there alot more people and larger casinos risking even more then you will be so that should be a good sign to go with moneypot. I do recommend a small investment in bitdice anyway just for a feeler.

I believe he means he owns 0.01% of the bankroll. MoneyPot has outperformed (in terms of % return on investment, not necessarily the absolute return) every publicly bankrolled site since our team has taken over.

Your % is 0.01% ? Each day ? So about 3.5% per year ? That's not good at all. Are you sure ? Or dude you mean you made 0.01btc with an investment of 0.15btc ? That would be good depending on the time it took.

I haven't heard of bitdice if you want to invest,  bitdice or moneypot investing is Risky, But if you really want to invest, invest in moneypot  atleast moneypot is well-known and trusted by many users. I also have investment there 0.15 Bitcoin my percent for that is 0.01,   

Op if you are wondering about investing bitcoins this list of of popular investment sites might be helpful for you: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-popular-sites-to-invest-bitcoins-1136572
It is not that you have only 2 sites to chose from when you want invest. But investing is always a risk, especially bitcoin investments could be very dangerous.

it's technically always gambling, except you have the house odds in your favor.

so it's not a bad kind of gambling.

You should split it 50/50 I have an investment in both and they great !
It is not easy to put a number on the return but it's good so try it out with a little amount of bitcoin and if you don't like it then just withdraw.

What do the 1770 and 16800 represent? How is the weighted bankroll calculated? I am confused on that. However, I think you are mistaken when you say "in case of investors, it's how much they are willing to risk with their investments". That's a different word, kelly is the result of the formula. Also, what about the fees that your site charges? Do they factor in to the 1%

Which account? We do not store funds on server, there are coldwallet for user funds.

Site always risks 1%, to be able to calculate max profit per bet we need to sum all investments with their kelly which is weighted bankroll.

Yes, high risk investors receive X times more where X is their kelly level ( as they are actually risk more than other investors )

Sorry, I should have used "X". We will allow to set a maximum of 5X Kelly with the new version. Kelly is a "optimal" risk amount consider your bankroll, in case of investors, it's how much they are willing to risk with their investments. And if investors wants to risk more or less than an optimal setting we allow to adjust it.

Regards,
Alex.

So, if I understand what you mean:

1) If a hacker was to hack your account, he would find 1,770 BTC

2) What is the meaning of 16,800 BTC???

3) Do high risk investors earn more when gamblers lose?

4) I don't think it's a Kelly if the people can choose. Kelly is one mathematically calculated value. There exists a certain kelly for a certain bet. What you mean to say is that the most investors can choose to risk on each bet is 5%. You probably should try to use a new term for that... in my humble opinion.

Currently real investments in BitDice is 1,770 BTC. However as most investors prefers high risk, they've made our "weighted" bankroll up to 16,800 BTC. Site risks only 1% so max profit is 168 BTC per bet. When some user wins, high risk investors lose more than a conservative ones, so at some point bankroll will be stabilize to real investment amount and there's no way that any user can win more than we actually have. 

With new version coming very soon maximum kelly will be lowered to 5% after that we will lower it more consider total invested amount.

Regards,
Alex.

By "risked amount" do you mean the sum of all the amounts that all the investors are willing to risk per bet?

This is nice explanation. Thanks Mixan for clarifying things for me, I didn't know that. I thought MP is just casino like any other.
I never heard for bitdice before, is that some new site?
I see you have a good knowledge about that so can you tell mi how much is minimum amount to invest and after how much time you can expect some earning?
For me personally this sounds much better then cloud mining.

for sure i vote for moneypot because there is alot of highrollers there and there is more casinos and all of them are searching for traffic so you will either have good fail or good success
regards.
-Katerniko1