We don't know what was the intention of someone who moved 62B in 2018 to Vassilis address. However, that person who did it - could just dump coins on exchanges for personal benefit, and the person prefered to move coins to a dev, which indicated lack of bad intentions. Unfortunately, still it caused damage.
But without any doubt, the damage would be limited if there were no politics and deliberate attacks. After all, coins were moved from one address to another address, from one not rightful owner to another not rightful owner. They were not sold and remain untouched, being seen as seized property. This status by itself locks them perfectly.
The point is that this situation was and is used POLITICALLY with the purpose to centralize Mooncoin in hands of several people and that really causes damage. Investors are interested in decentralized, Bitcoin like coin, not in a limited project where some people decide what to do with the project and even with funds of other people.
Topic: [MOON] Mooncoin 🌙 built in 2013 with the future in mind - page 12. (Read 4990 times)
I saw you are still connected to unnamed.exchange. really should seriously pay attention to all complaints against them. they are very businessless, they have damaged scammed many of their users by withholding their funds, without showing any concern for them. in the end, that exchange was not even registered as a company, it's all on one person's computer and you depend only on his goodwill to keep it on.
with them, you run the risk of being branded as a fraud and jeopardizing all previous work and effort.
with them, you run the risk of being branded as a fraud and jeopardizing all previous work and effort.
Vassilis, a dev who unexpectedly received 62B in 2018 said that he was in full control of private keys of address, which was his personal address for donations, other investors never had control on his address or on him
(unlike what some people were actively saying in Telegram during years).
He said that shortly after receiving coins in 2018 he reported unjust enrichment to Greek and European authorities.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56686081
Vassilis always was saying that though coins were sent to his address for donations, he considered them as seized property not belonging to him, and only asked for legal documents to proceed. If he would consider these coins as personal funds, what would prevent him from selling at least part of them when the price was 50 times higher, in 2018?
He never touched even one coin.
However, POLITICALLY the truth is not wanted, politically it is more interesting to keep saying that Vassilis 'unethically acquired these coins and wants to own them at expense of community'.
You decide whether you like to be cheated and passively serve interests of people who care only about personal ambitions and never care about the truth or about the project, or you finally will start to defend your interests and your investments.
(unlike what some people were actively saying in Telegram during years).
He said that shortly after receiving coins in 2018 he reported unjust enrichment to Greek and European authorities.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56686081
Vassilis always was saying that though coins were sent to his address for donations, he considered them as seized property not belonging to him, and only asked for legal documents to proceed. If he would consider these coins as personal funds, what would prevent him from selling at least part of them when the price was 50 times higher, in 2018?
He never touched even one coin.
However, POLITICALLY the truth is not wanted, politically it is more interesting to keep saying that Vassilis 'unethically acquired these coins and wants to own them at expense of community'.
You decide whether you like to be cheated and passively serve interests of people who care only about personal ambitions and never care about the truth or about the project, or you finally will start to defend your interests and your investments.
I also believe that the previous developer, Vassilis, was the victim of an attack aimed at discrediting the whole project and he found himself in the middle of a tornado.
I remember that at that time I became interested in the Mooncoin project and during the Christmas period there was the famous 62B transfer to our developer's personal account... coincidentally that move was the beginning of the decline of the Mooncoin project. So definitely a deliberate move with a clear intent.
But as you correctly pointed out, Vassilis has never moved a single coin and is awaiting an official ruling from a court of law. So I think that those who claim that Vassilis is a crook are exploiting the issue for their own ends.
Vassilis, a dev who unexpectedly received 62B in 2018 said that he was in full control of private keys of address, which was his personal address for donations, other investors never had control on his address or on him
(unlike what some people were actively saying in Telegram during years).
He said that shortly after receiving coins in 2018 he reported unjust enrichment to Greek and European authorities.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56686081
Vassilis always was saying that though coins were sent to his address for donations, he considered them as seized property not belonging to him, and only asked for legal documents to proceed. If he would consider these coins as personal funds, what would prevent him from selling at least part of them when the price was 50 times higher, in 2018?
He never touched even one coin.
However, POLITICALLY the truth is not wanted, politically it is more interesting to keep saying that Vassilis 'unethically acquired these coins and wants to own them at expense of community'.
You decide whether you like to be cheated and passively serve interests of people who care only about personal ambitions and never care about the truth or about the project, or you finally will start to defend your interests and your investments.
(unlike what some people were actively saying in Telegram during years).
He said that shortly after receiving coins in 2018 he reported unjust enrichment to Greek and European authorities.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56686081
Vassilis always was saying that though coins were sent to his address for donations, he considered them as seized property not belonging to him, and only asked for legal documents to proceed. If he would consider these coins as personal funds, what would prevent him from selling at least part of them when the price was 50 times higher, in 2018?
He never touched even one coin.
However, POLITICALLY the truth is not wanted, politically it is more interesting to keep saying that Vassilis 'unethically acquired these coins and wants to own them at expense of community'.
You decide whether you like to be cheated and passively serve interests of people who care only about personal ambitions and never care about the truth or about the project, or you finally will start to defend your interests and your investments.
About 62 B burn, did you ever think, why devs during 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 didn't burn those coins? There are endless talks about it and no progress. That all is pure politics, those 62B case is ideal for maintaining toxic atmosphere and manipulations of public opinion.
When there was an attempt to solve this issue in 2020, with 0.18 wallet, to lock these coins, there was an attack. 0.17 has removed all protection, even if protection was not ideal, is it better, when there is no protection at all?
Here is a Coindesk article about this dev: https://www.coindesk.com/feathercoin-founder-peter-bushnell-talks-about-cryptocurrency-challenges
Did you ever think why recommendations of so trusted expert, one of Bitcoin devs were rejected and he was falsely accused and attacked together with other people who tried to help solve all these issues?
The answer is POLITICS.
When there was an attempt to solve this issue in 2020, with 0.18 wallet, to lock these coins, there was an attack. 0.17 has removed all protection, even if protection was not ideal, is it better, when there is no protection at all?
Hi everybody,
I'm the developer who was commissioned to create the 0.18 client by Chekaz.
I've put my suggestions on the Telegram channel. We want a single chain after all the dust has settled, 0.17 has already broken consensus with 0.13, which is why you do not restore consensus breaking validation without doing so at a set height so everyone can upgrade in good time.
My suggestion is to update 0.17 to follow the 0.13 chain and release it after the validation restoration height in 0.18, then 0.17 and 0.18 will exist on the same chain and as long as the majority of miners are on 0.17 and 0.18 then 0.13 will follow it. The only concern is if someone tries to spend the 62B stolen coins, moving these funds on 0.18 is now blocked on a consensus level, 0.13 only protected the mempool which is why they moved and 0.17 has no protection against this at all. A new 0.17 version should also block spending of those stolen funds on a consensus level, I can send create the pull request on their 0.17 repo to add this feature.
I've also recommended to to Chekaz that historical validation be restored in the 0.18 release once validation has been restored, then 0.18 will be a fully validating release as it should be, this could not be done from the outset or consensus would break at some point as demonstrated by 0.17.
I'm the developer who was commissioned to create the 0.18 client by Chekaz.
I've put my suggestions on the Telegram channel. We want a single chain after all the dust has settled, 0.17 has already broken consensus with 0.13, which is why you do not restore consensus breaking validation without doing so at a set height so everyone can upgrade in good time.
My suggestion is to update 0.17 to follow the 0.13 chain and release it after the validation restoration height in 0.18, then 0.17 and 0.18 will exist on the same chain and as long as the majority of miners are on 0.17 and 0.18 then 0.13 will follow it. The only concern is if someone tries to spend the 62B stolen coins, moving these funds on 0.18 is now blocked on a consensus level, 0.13 only protected the mempool which is why they moved and 0.17 has no protection against this at all. A new 0.17 version should also block spending of those stolen funds on a consensus level, I can send create the pull request on their 0.17 repo to add this feature.
I've also recommended to to Chekaz that historical validation be restored in the 0.18 release once validation has been restored, then 0.18 will be a fully validating release as it should be, this could not be done from the outset or consensus would break at some point as demonstrated by 0.17.
Here is a Coindesk article about this dev: https://www.coindesk.com/feathercoin-founder-peter-bushnell-talks-about-cryptocurrency-challenges
Did you ever think why recommendations of so trusted expert, one of Bitcoin devs were rejected and he was falsely accused and attacked together with other people who tried to help solve all these issues?
The answer is POLITICS.
There is no difference in interests of old or new, big or small investors like you say. The interest is one and healthy: profit from investments, and it is true for 99 percent of investors here. The problem occurs if someone tries to benefit at expense of investors, the project stagnates as a result.
If you change nothing in the current situation, and just will follow wrong ideas, imposed as a result of politics, that 'old bagholders are evil', like you say, there will be again and again stagnation for years.
If something sounds mad for you, please try to think it over and understand other people before just attacking them.
If you change nothing in the current situation, and just will follow wrong ideas, imposed as a result of politics, that 'old bagholders are evil', like you say, there will be again and again stagnation for years.
If something sounds mad for you, please try to think it over and understand other people before just attacking them.
Please don't leave posts with attacks, they all will be deleted.
If you have normal arguments, please share them in a calm way.
There is a DM option, if you care about the perception of project and peaceful spirit.
If you are a web designer, your help with the website is welcome.
.com is not 'junk' like you say, it is a website with information about the project, translated in many languages, unlike other resources,
right now it contains only basic info, however it is not a reason to attack it.
Taking into account that years ago .eco website just copy pasted part of content from .com and still is using it, even outdated.
We never say there should be a single website, we don't impose the website,
however, we don't agree if someone attacks historical websites or requests to close it.
If you have normal arguments, please share them in a calm way.
There is a DM option, if you care about the perception of project and peaceful spirit.
If you are a web designer, your help with the website is welcome.
.com is not 'junk' like you say, it is a website with information about the project, translated in many languages, unlike other resources,
right now it contains only basic info, however it is not a reason to attack it.
Taking into account that years ago .eco website just copy pasted part of content from .com and still is using it, even outdated.
We never say there should be a single website, we don't impose the website,
however, we don't agree if someone attacks historical websites or requests to close it.
DECLARATION
of Mooncoin Fellowship (Mooncoin Foundation),
brotherhood of Mooncoin investors
DECENTRALIZATION
1. Mooncoin is a decentralized coin, with its own blockchain.
By definition, *decentralized* means *with no center*, it is inappropriate if some people (no matter how you call them: 'group', 'team', 'board', 'devs') decide things and impose them to the decentralized project.
Self promoting, also positioning of someone as "official", any governance, burecraucy, limitations, attacks against the truth, rewriting Mooncoin history, attacks against historical resources are unacceptable.
That all is not only unethical, contradicts with the project nature, but also causes big damage to the project with its main value originated from no-center model (Mooncoin is decentralized crypto, with Bitcoin-like classic model).
Decentralized only Mooncoin has real value.
Mooncoin Fellowship aims to defend decentralized nature of Mooncoin project and interests of Mooncoin investors.
HONESTY AND ETHICS
2. Decentralized crypto with preconfigured, set in stone rules doesn't depend on trust. However, it is necessary to have friendly and collaborative, non toxic, not low-minded spirit in the community. Honesty and ethics are very important, and not less important is understanding of what is ethical and what is not.
The past of project, its true history matter. Bright future of the project cannot be built upon fake info, incorrect understanding and wrong ideas.
It is unethical that people who call themselves "official", made a chain split in 2020 and then a 51÷ attack to make their 0.17 version the main one, and falsely accused others of chain split, also in 2021 request that investors must pay to them percent of total Mooncoin supply for any further progress. If some people call themselves "official" to try to receive unclaimed, not belonging to them coins from defuncted exchanges, it is also unethical and unacceptable.
TRUE PROGRESS
3. All teams and devs, including those one who call themselves "official" - who are not capable to keep Mooncoin in top 100 at Coinmarketcap, where Mooncoin was before those teams came, or at least let it stay in top 500, must stop causing damage and leave.
False promises, inadequate delays (year and more) in solving important issues and delays in fixing of urgent security flaws (how it happened in 2019-2020) are not tolerable any longer.
"The dog in the manger" model when some people cause stagnation, block and falsely discredit good initiatives of others at expense of entire project is inadequate model of development.
FREEDOM AND PRIVACY
4. Crypto world is for freedom. It defends privacy of people and of their funds. Attacks against privacy of Mooncoin investors and supporters are not acceptable.
Privacy guarantees real decentralization, no politics, no bosses, no arrogance, no company-like model, no personal career ambitions at expense of investors and future of project, and no imposed decisions, originated from non private CEO-like center, falsely recognized as "official" one. No one is "official" in a decentralized project, there is no center. People are free to join the project, to support it in accordance with its decentralized nature, without any "governance".
Mooncoin should never be transformed into Orwell's 1984 with a single source of "the truth", and not be transformed into Orwell's Animal Farm, where "some animals are more equal".
RESOURCES AND PARTICIPATION
5. Mooncoin.com website, launched by Mooncoin investors in 2015, is the primary website of Mooncoin Fellowship. Bitcointalk ANN thread is the primary forum.
It is recommended to verify all information which you receive from Telegram channels, there were numerous requests from people, telling that there was unconfirmed or fake info.
Mooncoin is decentralized and all normal resources, not violating ethics and principles of decentralization are welcome.
Any Mooncoin investor with any amount of coins can be part of Mooncoin Fellowship. To balance interests of investors and devs, devs cannot be part of the brotherhood of investors.
of Mooncoin Fellowship (Mooncoin Foundation),
brotherhood of Mooncoin investors
DECENTRALIZATION
1. Mooncoin is a decentralized coin, with its own blockchain.
By definition, *decentralized* means *with no center*, it is inappropriate if some people (no matter how you call them: 'group', 'team', 'board', 'devs') decide things and impose them to the decentralized project.
Self promoting, also positioning of someone as "official", any governance, burecraucy, limitations, attacks against the truth, rewriting Mooncoin history, attacks against historical resources are unacceptable.
That all is not only unethical, contradicts with the project nature, but also causes big damage to the project with its main value originated from no-center model (Mooncoin is decentralized crypto, with Bitcoin-like classic model).
Decentralized only Mooncoin has real value.
Mooncoin Fellowship aims to defend decentralized nature of Mooncoin project and interests of Mooncoin investors.
HONESTY AND ETHICS
2. Decentralized crypto with preconfigured, set in stone rules doesn't depend on trust. However, it is necessary to have friendly and collaborative, non toxic, not low-minded spirit in the community. Honesty and ethics are very important, and not less important is understanding of what is ethical and what is not.
The past of project, its true history matter. Bright future of the project cannot be built upon fake info, incorrect understanding and wrong ideas.
It is unethical that people who call themselves "official", made a chain split in 2020 and then a 51÷ attack to make their 0.17 version the main one, and falsely accused others of chain split, also in 2021 request that investors must pay to them percent of total Mooncoin supply for any further progress. If some people call themselves "official" to try to receive unclaimed, not belonging to them coins from defuncted exchanges, it is also unethical and unacceptable.
TRUE PROGRESS
3. All teams and devs, including those one who call themselves "official" - who are not capable to keep Mooncoin in top 100 at Coinmarketcap, where Mooncoin was before those teams came, or at least let it stay in top 500, must stop causing damage and leave.
False promises, inadequate delays (year and more) in solving important issues and delays in fixing of urgent security flaws (how it happened in 2019-2020) are not tolerable any longer.
"The dog in the manger" model when some people cause stagnation, block and falsely discredit good initiatives of others at expense of entire project is inadequate model of development.
FREEDOM AND PRIVACY
4. Crypto world is for freedom. It defends privacy of people and of their funds. Attacks against privacy of Mooncoin investors and supporters are not acceptable.
Privacy guarantees real decentralization, no politics, no bosses, no arrogance, no company-like model, no personal career ambitions at expense of investors and future of project, and no imposed decisions, originated from non private CEO-like center, falsely recognized as "official" one. No one is "official" in a decentralized project, there is no center. People are free to join the project, to support it in accordance with its decentralized nature, without any "governance".
Mooncoin should never be transformed into Orwell's 1984 with a single source of "the truth", and not be transformed into Orwell's Animal Farm, where "some animals are more equal".
RESOURCES AND PARTICIPATION
5. Mooncoin.com website, launched by Mooncoin investors in 2015, is the primary website of Mooncoin Fellowship. Bitcointalk ANN thread is the primary forum.
It is recommended to verify all information which you receive from Telegram channels, there were numerous requests from people, telling that there was unconfirmed or fake info.
Mooncoin is decentralized and all normal resources, not violating ethics and principles of decentralization are welcome.
Any Mooncoin investor with any amount of coins can be part of Mooncoin Fellowship. To balance interests of investors and devs, devs cannot be part of the brotherhood of investors.
Today, on July, 31 we are glad to announce
Mooncoin Fellowship (Foundation), brotherhood of Mooncoin investors.
Any investor with any amount of mooncoins can be part of our Fellowship.
We all are interested in a well balanced model of our coin. To balance interests well, devs cannot be part of Mooncoin Fellowship of investors.
Mooncoin Fellowship (Foundation), brotherhood of Mooncoin investors.
Any investor with any amount of mooncoins can be part of our Fellowship.
We all are interested in a well balanced model of our coin. To balance interests well, devs cannot be part of Mooncoin Fellowship of investors.
Hi Heitor,
many thanks for all your efforts.
I think that Mooncoin Fellowship is a great idea.
My wish would be for a place where, democratically and transparently, we can vote and decide what direction to take the project and where to address our funds for future development.
I am proud to be joining the Mooncoin Fellowship, brotherhood of Mooncoin investors.
Hello everyone, as a big Moon investor I support this “Mooncoin Fellowship” model!
As always I will support any good initiative in the name of decentralization and innovation.
As always I will support any good initiative in the name of decentralization and innovation.
Today, on July, 31 we are glad to announce
Mooncoin Fellowship (Foundation), brotherhood of Mooncoin investors.
Any investor with any amount of mooncoins can be part of our Fellowship.
We all are interested in a well balanced model of our coin. To balance interests well, devs cannot be part of Mooncoin Fellowship of investors.
Mooncoin Fellowship (Foundation), brotherhood of Mooncoin investors.
Any investor with any amount of mooncoins can be part of our Fellowship.
We all are interested in a well balanced model of our coin. To balance interests well, devs cannot be part of Mooncoin Fellowship of investors.
Count me in with the Mooncoin Fellowship.
I am a long time holder of a decent stash of Mooncoin.
So, decentralization of this coin is of prime importance.
reserved
reserved
It is necessary to stop politics and centralizing Mooncoin for personal ambitions, including self promoting.
We need to reestablish positive, non toxic spirit and care about decentralization.
Decentralized only Mooncoin has real value.
We can see that interests of devs and investors often contradict.
Investors are interested in bright future of project and of their investments.
Investors are interested in secure and also fast progress.
Time collects all risks, it is more and more difficult to compete with top coins.
The game must be fair and rules must be the same for everyone: mine or buy mooncoins, benefit from investment profit. Not at expense of investors.
We all understand that since 2018, if our initiatives (for example, with 0.18 wallet, engineered by well known and trusted Bitcoin dev Peter Bushnell) wouldn't be blocked, we could reach great progress. There is not too much coding needed for progress, it is work of several days, but since 2018 there is stagnation. If several people can block any progress, how we learn from these years, that is definitely against idea of decentralization and against interests of all investors.
We need to reestablish positive, non toxic spirit and care about decentralization.
Decentralized only Mooncoin has real value.
We can see that interests of devs and investors often contradict.
Investors are interested in bright future of project and of their investments.
Investors are interested in secure and also fast progress.
Time collects all risks, it is more and more difficult to compete with top coins.
The game must be fair and rules must be the same for everyone: mine or buy mooncoins, benefit from investment profit. Not at expense of investors.
We all understand that since 2018, if our initiatives (for example, with 0.18 wallet, engineered by well known and trusted Bitcoin dev Peter Bushnell) wouldn't be blocked, we could reach great progress. There is not too much coding needed for progress, it is work of several days, but since 2018 there is stagnation. If several people can block any progress, how we learn from these years, that is definitely against idea of decentralization and against interests of all investors.
Several days ago I was contacted in DM by one of current devs about my Mooncoin domains, they request to redirect all our websites and domains, including historical mooncoin.com - to their .eco website, not even caring that during months their mooncoin.eco website promotes scammy Satowallet, contains outdated and fake info.
They don't even care to make small editions on their website during months, but again and again request our web resources, including historical one.
If you don't give money or web resources to them, be ready to be attacked in public that you 'complain and accuse'.
One website, even if not in hands of newcomers, is a single point of failure and against principles of decentralization.
They don't even care to make small editions on their website during months, but again and again request our web resources, including historical one.
If you don't give money or web resources to them, be ready to be attacked in public that you 'complain and accuse'.
One website, even if not in hands of newcomers, is a single point of failure and against principles of decentralization.
We remember that in 2014 Mooncoin was completely abandoned by devs, investors saved the project, and by the end of 2017, before any team came,
decentralized Mooncoin was in top 100 at Coinmarketcap.
Forbes wrote about Mooncoin together with Dogecoin in 2017:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2017/07/10/cryptos-in-wonderland-12-of-the-weirdest-wackiest-coins
Since 2018 we see no real progress, new devs request 1 or 2 percent of total supply for their work, complain about lack of funding, lack of support, permanently accuse and attack us.
decentralized Mooncoin was in top 100 at Coinmarketcap.
Forbes wrote about Mooncoin together with Dogecoin in 2017:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2017/07/10/cryptos-in-wonderland-12-of-the-weirdest-wackiest-coins
Since 2018 we see no real progress, new devs request 1 or 2 percent of total supply for their work, complain about lack of funding, lack of support, permanently accuse and attack us.
Today, on July, 31 we are glad to announce
Mooncoin Fellowship (Foundation), brotherhood of Mooncoin investors.
Any investor with any amount of mooncoins can be part of our Fellowship.
We all are interested in a well balanced model of our coin. To balance interests well, devs cannot be part of Mooncoin Fellowship of investors.
Mooncoin Fellowship (Foundation), brotherhood of Mooncoin investors.
Any investor with any amount of mooncoins can be part of our Fellowship.
We all are interested in a well balanced model of our coin. To balance interests well, devs cannot be part of Mooncoin Fellowship of investors.
This post is reserved for important Mooncoin news and announcements.
This post is reserved for Mooncoin history.
This ANN thread aims to defend decentralized nature of Mooncoin and interests of all Mooncoin investors.
Only decentralized Mooncoin has real value.
Only decentralized Mooncoin has real value.
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