More Debt, Buy Bitcoin - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

BitHodler

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Quote from: Meowth05 on November 03, 2019, 08:56:55 AM

It is impossible for a country to print more money just to pay off their debt this will have a huge impact on the economic status of one country.

Not impossible at all.... it has been happening for decades globally, and yes, it has an impact on the economy because it decreases the purchasing power of the ordinary people.

Money printing is only a good thing relatively short term speaking, because it gives the economy an artificial boost, but when the effect of the printed money runs out, you'll need to print even more to reach the same effect.

It's like a drug addict that has an amazing high the first time, but needs more of it just to feel good while the first euphoric high will never be replicated again.... all you can do is use more in the hope that you can replicate it.

ChrisPop

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Or.. more fiat = more debt. Over 23 trillion dollars is an amount most people cannot even imagine. I agree with the OP and I think an imminent crisis is upon us. First the college and the mortgage debt are going to crack down then the stock market will follow.

IMO the next crisis is going to.be the biggest one we had so far and it could have major repercussions on the world power shift. Pay attention to the signs and try to diversify your holdings.

qiman

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This is why we are trying to get more and more involved in Bitcoin for the simple reason of getting out of debt slavery. Now what do we mean by this? Well every time the central banks and the federal reserve print more Fiat, it takes away our purchasing power and makes people much poorer over the generations, if they are not compounding their wealth or thinking about generating generational wealth. Bitcoin is finite in supply and the bigger the demand for it over time, the rarer it will be as a store of value asset and people will begin to get their power back by purchasing and storing Bitcoin long term.

Meowth05

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Quote from: meanwords on November 02, 2019, 09:38:29 PM

The US government either can print more money to pay off their debt or default which in either case produce more problems in the long run. I agree that with cryptocurrency, most citizens would be able to avoid poverty. But I think what people really need is a stable coin for those who doesn't want to invest in a high volatility coin like Bitcoin. Like for example, euro, yen, or even gold.

It is impossible for a country to print more money just to pay off their debt this will have a huge impact on the economic status of one country. As printing press sped up, prices will grow faster that would cause hyperinflation or worse their currency might ended up worthless. This is already happened in Zimbabwe and Venezuela. Hence, for me it is much better if they will use cryptocurrency to reduce their debt.

Hamphser

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Quote from: shoreno on November 03, 2019, 08:25:52 AM

Quote from: santiagomaicon on November 03, 2019, 07:48:32 AM

Debt is not a problem then country have enough money to pay for it

lol . only if a country is not corrupt and only if a country is rich enough on resouces . they can pay any debts they have . there are also personal debts which can only be repayed by your own self . buying bitcoin is not the solution for debts but it will only make your debts more bigger if you loan money to buy btc if ever you dont have a. money . the solution to debt is to not loan at all if you think you cant spend the money wisely or if there is no emergency occasion to used with

The debt will continue to grow if a certain country is still corrupted with officials who's serving the country. I don't know why some country don't like to stop those people whose not contributing for the betterment of their country. I agree that loaning money to invest in bitcoin is not a good idea because it will going to get worse with those corrupt officials.

Edraket31

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Quote from: bittraffic on November 03, 2019, 07:25:44 AM

Quote from: Darooghe on November 03, 2019, 06:42:20 AM

Quote from: meanwords on November 02, 2019, 09:38:29 PM

The US government either can print more money to pay off their debt or default which in either case produce more problems in the long run. I agree that with cryptocurrency, most citizens would be able to avoid poverty. But I think what people really need is a stable coin for those who doesn't want to invest in a high volatility coin like Bitcoin. Like for example, euro, yen, or even gold.

Yes, print more money to pay off debt will be an option, but in the end it will fail. when you own the printing press and largest military in the world you can always print more money. They'll print them-trillions of dollars and will repay the debt in full. Problem is the resulting inflation will kill the US and EU economy, and China,Russia and Japan will switch to bitcoin as reserve currency to save their economies. And that's exactly why you should be saving your wealth in bitcoin, not FIAT in the long-term. Even stocks can not save you. it might rise a bit initially, but once inflation hits high enough people won't be able to afford to consume anymore. Wages never rise as fast as the price of goods. you get lowering production and hence slashing profits. Bitcoin will be the only safe haven if we hit significant inflation.

They don't print money to pay debts, they print money for inflation to devalue their money making their debts lower in value as well. That's how government manipulates the the prices and the economy. This could be healthy if they balance the goods and importation of products in the country but if they over supply the paper money, the value will be lesser resulting for gas prices to spikes. If governments sees BTC as reserves, this could be resolve.

Yes, indeed, they are supposed to do that, but they refused too, they preferred making decisions at their own interest only, for their business and not to really help poor people, so people who are poor remains poor or becoming poorer while rich person are becoming more richer.

So, cryptocurrency is here to balance everything, but it is not that too easy to make it as the global currency as it is controlled by those powerful people.

shoreno

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Quote from: santiagomaicon on November 03, 2019, 07:48:32 AM

Debt is not a problem then country have enough money to pay for it

lol . only if a country is not corrupt and only if a country is rich enough on resouces . they can pay any debts they have . there are also personal debts which can only be repayed by your own self . buying bitcoin is not the solution for debts but it will only make your debts more bigger if you loan money to buy btc if ever you dont have a. money . the solution to debt is to not loan at all if you think you cant spend the money wisely or if there is no emergency occasion to used with

alrose

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Quote from: CryptoBry on November 02, 2019, 07:51:40 PM

The whole world is saddled with gargantuan debt. Countries right now are using debt facility to cover up their inefficiencies and inability to meet their financial needs due to rising number of programs yet decreasing stream of revenues. Aside from the printing of money, borrowing money from anywhere has become the accepted norm. The more money they can hoard from many sources inside and outside their country, the better they feel secured and safe.

But is debt a very secured thing to enter into? Debt can be a big trap and many countries are now starting to feel the heat...soon this on and off heat can be transforming into a fire and an explosion that can engulf not their own country's economy but also can be spreading to neighboring countries as well, just like what we witnessed in the 2008-2009 USA recession.

In the USA alone, national debt is now over $23 trillion, according to website U.S Debt Clock. The milestone has been pointed out on Nov. 1 by Bitcoin advocate Twitter personality Rhythm, who also said that every dollar of U.S. national debt is, in fact, a reason to buy Bitcoin (BTC). Another user presented another interesting take adding: “That’s more than $1,000,000 debt per 1 Bitcoin.”

Indeed, we will soon witness this whole thing explodes right before our eyes. And with this as the backdrop, we should be looking at cryptocurrency seriously as one of the many possible ways we can be protected.

Really very good theme!Just yesterday talked with a friend on this topic among themselves.The thing is that all countries have public debt without exception.And that's okay!It must be!But the problem is that this debt is constantly growing(as you said).Therefore, those countries whose national debt is growing need to either raise taxes or reduce spending.But apparently no one wants to do it.Therefore, only those countries that are weaker and less developed will suffer.(~~buy bitcoin~~)

santiagomaicon

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Debt is not a problem then country have enough money to pay for it

bittraffic

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Quote from: Darooghe on November 03, 2019, 06:42:20 AM

Quote from: meanwords on November 02, 2019, 09:38:29 PM

The US government either can print more money to pay off their debt or default which in either case produce more problems in the long run. I agree that with cryptocurrency, most citizens would be able to avoid poverty. But I think what people really need is a stable coin for those who doesn't want to invest in a high volatility coin like Bitcoin. Like for example, euro, yen, or even gold.

Yes, print more money to pay off debt will be an option, but in the end it will fail. when you own the printing press and largest military in the world you can always print more money. They'll print them-trillions of dollars and will repay the debt in full. Problem is the resulting inflation will kill the US and EU economy, and China,Russia and Japan will switch to bitcoin as reserve currency to save their economies. And that's exactly why you should be saving your wealth in bitcoin, not FIAT in the long-term. Even stocks can not save you. it might rise a bit initially, but once inflation hits high enough people won't be able to afford to consume anymore. Wages never rise as fast as the price of goods. you get lowering production and hence slashing profits. Bitcoin will be the only safe haven if we hit significant inflation.

They don't print money to pay debts, they print money for inflation to devalue their money making their debts lower in value as well. That's how government manipulates the the prices and the economy. This could be healthy if they balance the goods and importation of products in the country but if they over supply the paper money, the value will be lesser resulting for gas prices to spikes. If governments sees BTC as reserves, this could be resolve.

Darooghe

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Quote from: meanwords on November 02, 2019, 09:38:29 PM

The US government either can print more money to pay off their debt or default which in either case produce more problems in the long run. I agree that with cryptocurrency, most citizens would be able to avoid poverty. But I think what people really need is a stable coin for those who doesn't want to invest in a high volatility coin like Bitcoin. Like for example, euro, yen, or even gold.

Yes, print more money to pay off debt will be an option, but in the end it will fail. when you own the printing press and largest military in the world you can always print more money. They'll print them-trillions of dollars and will repay the debt in full. Problem is the resulting inflation will kill the US and EU economy, and China,Russia and Japan will switch to bitcoin as reserve currency to save their economies. And that's exactly why you should be saving your wealth in bitcoin, not FIAT in the long-term. Even stocks can not save you. it might rise a bit initially, but once inflation hits high enough people won't be able to afford to consume anymore. Wages never rise as fast as the price of goods. you get lowering production and hence slashing profits. Bitcoin will be the only safe haven if we hit significant inflation.

teosanru

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Quote from: CryptoBry on November 02, 2019, 07:51:40 PM

The whole world is saddled with gargantuan debt. Countries right now are using debt facility to cover up their inefficiencies and inability to meet their financial needs due to rising number of programs yet decreasing stream of revenues. Aside from the printing of money, borrowing money from anywhere has become the accepted norm. The more money they can hoard from many sources inside and outside their country, the better they feel secured and safe.

But is debt a very secured thing to enter into? Debt can be a big trap and many countries are now starting to feel the heat...soon this on and off heat can be transforming into a fire and an explosion that can engulf not their own country's economy but also can be spreading to neighboring countries as well, just like what we witnessed in the 2008-2009 USA recession.

In the USA alone, national debt is now over $23 trillion, according to website U.S Debt Clock. The milestone has been pointed out on Nov. 1 by Bitcoin advocate Twitter personality Rhythm, who also said that every dollar of U.S. national debt is, in fact, a reason to buy Bitcoin (BTC). Another user presented another interesting take adding: “That’s more than $1,000,000 debt per 1 Bitcoin.”

Indeed, we will soon witness this whole thing explodes right before our eyes. And with this as the backdrop, we should be looking at cryptocurrency seriously as one of the many possible ways we can be protected.

The thing is this system actually won't explode like this. The internal debt of the country is nothing but a myth the money is never going to flow back again it would only increase with time. The bubbles burst when either their is an excessive increase in debt or there is a failure in repayment of debt. Both of them aren't happening anytime soon which ensures that system remains intact. Only problem is the international debt which too is sort of based on understanding and countries are pretty happy to defer repayments of such debt based on goal of mutual development.

hello_good_sir

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Quote from: JC btc on November 03, 2019, 05:39:44 AM

Quote from: Shasha80 on November 02, 2019, 11:44:53 PM

Nowadays it is hard for humans to avoid debt, because debt is now considered normal. This is wrong in my opinion. The proof is that a person
with a lot of debt has a difficult life and the economy is ruined. Same thing with a country that has a lot of debt, its people life is difficult and
poor. Actually debt is not a financial or economic solution, but debt is a disaster. So from that now banks are becoming more advanced, because
they are increasingly creative in offering various types of loans with high interest. In the same cryptocurrency world, lots of trading capital comes
from debt, that's an unhealthy life. My advice is to avoid it whose name is debt or loan. Bitcoin can be a solution to pay debt but not instant, but in
the long run. Because getting profit from bitcoin needs to be processed.

Having debt has a good advantage as well as disadvantage, if you will learn about the secret of those who become successful, they took the risk for them to have and build their own business, as their monthly income cannot cover their monthly expenses, so what they did is they lend some money from lending services, start a small business, then little by little they made it bigger and bigger, so having debt is good if this is our purpose, but if will have debt just to buy a brand new cellphone just to please everyone and just to make look good and impress other people then it is not good.

Your terminology here is pretty incorrect. I would agree that having the option for loans and debt is a good idea, otherwise there would be no people in the world that would be able to afford a house.

Although, I would never say being in debt is a good idea, your opportunities are all restricted and you are forced to make decisions just to be able to pay the debt off quicker.

It is a huge issue, especially for the US, and does need to be addressed by the government ASAP.

skarais

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Quote from: airdnasxela on November 02, 2019, 10:26:26 PM

~Skip
I don't know how the government deal with national debt but is increasing the tax a way to pay debt?

There are many ways that the government can use to pay off debt, such as taxes. Tax is one of the government is options to get income from every citizen that can be used to pay off debts. But they seem to have failed to do so because every country has many corrupt officials. This will certainly have an impact on unstable state finances, but I still dont think that the government can use bitcoin as an alternative to paying off debt.
What about their gold supply, can the gold supply be used to pay off debts ?
This is 2017 data, I just don't know the latest data for now. Grin

Quote from: https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/20180124120448-4-2371/negara-dengan-cadangan-devisa-emas-terbanyak-di-dunia

Launching from the World Gold Council, here are 10 countries whose central banks have the most gold reserves in December 2017.
1. United States: 8,133.5 Tons (74.9% of total Foreign Reserves)
2. Germany: 3,373.6 Tons (68.9% of total Foreign Reserves)
3. Italy: 2,451.8 Tons (67.3% of total Foreign Reserves)
4. France: 2,435.9 Tons (64.9% of total Foreign Reserves)
5. China: 1,842.6 tons (2.3% of total foreign exchange reserves)
6. Russia: 1,801.2 Tons (17.3% of total Foreign Reserves)
7. Switzerland: 1,040 Tons (5.3% of total Foreign Reserves)
8. Japan: 765.22 tons (2.5% of total foreign exchange reserves)
9. Netherlands: 612.45 Tons (66.3% of total Foreign Reserves)
10. India: 557.79 Tons (5.7% of total Foreign Reserves)

dothebeats

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That's why most banks have halted or prohibited people from buying bitcoin using credit cards because they know that it'll only add to the problems that they have created themselves together with the governments. While I believe that it's high time that we deviate from using dollars and at the least stock up on some important assets, we do know that banks losing money in their vaults would mean lots and lots of troubles than we already have, so we're kinda in a stalemate situation wherein we're just waiting for the implosion and would just try to pick ourselves from the dirt after all is said and done. That debt isn't going to clear itself; there has to be a catalyst before it's wiped clean on the slate.

JC btc

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Quote from: Shasha80 on November 02, 2019, 11:44:53 PM

Nowadays it is hard for humans to avoid debt, because debt is now considered normal. This is wrong in my opinion. The proof is that a person
with a lot of debt has a difficult life and the economy is ruined. Same thing with a country that has a lot of debt, its people life is difficult and
poor. Actually debt is not a financial or economic solution, but debt is a disaster. So from that now banks are becoming more advanced, because
they are increasingly creative in offering various types of loans with high interest. In the same cryptocurrency world, lots of trading capital comes
from debt, that's an unhealthy life. My advice is to avoid it whose name is debt or loan. Bitcoin can be a solution to pay debt but not instant, but in
the long run. Because getting profit from bitcoin needs to be processed.

Having debt has a good advantage as well as disadvantage, if you will learn about the secret of those who become successful, they took the risk for them to have and build their own business, as their monthly income cannot cover their monthly expenses, so what they did is they lend some money from lending services, start a small business, then little by little they made it bigger and bigger, so having debt is good if this is our purpose, but if will have debt just to buy a brand new cellphone just to please everyone and just to make look good and impress other people then it is not good.

tenakha

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Quote from: CryptoBry on November 02, 2019, 07:51:40 PM

The whole world is saddled with gargantuan debt. Countries right now are using debt facility to cover up their inefficiencies and inability to meet their financial needs due to rising number of programs yet decreasing stream of revenues. Aside from the printing of money, borrowing money from anywhere has become the accepted norm. The more money they can hoard from many sources inside and outside their country, the better they feel secured and safe.

But is debt a very secured thing to enter into? Debt can be a big trap and many countries are now starting to feel the heat...soon this on and off heat can be transforming into a fire and an explosion that can engulf not their own country's economy but also can be spreading to neighboring countries as well, just like what we witnessed in the 2008-2009 USA recession.

In the USA alone, national debt is now over $23 trillion, according to website U.S Debt Clock. The milestone has been pointed out on Nov. 1 by Bitcoin advocate Twitter personality Rhythm, who also said that every dollar of U.S. national debt is, in fact, a reason to buy Bitcoin (BTC). Another user presented another interesting take adding: “That’s more than $1,000,000 debt per 1 Bitcoin.”

Indeed, we will soon witness this whole thing explodes right before our eyes. And with this as the backdrop, we should be looking at cryptocurrency seriously as one of the many possible ways we can be protected.

Do we already value crypto with that money? If there is a crypto that has value in itself, lets do it, but it is very difficult to establish such a system for now. In my opinion, the current situation of crypto is not available for this, while we can not use it as a method of payment still. 1 BTC=1 BTC for the future (for now too) yes, but if you exchange all your money to BTC, what are you going to do now?

atjiat

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Quote from: adaseb on November 03, 2019, 02:00:22 AM

Quote from: Shasha80 on November 02, 2019, 11:44:53 PM

Nowadays it is hard for humans to avoid debt, because debt is now considered normal. This is wrong in my opinion. The proof is that a person
with a lot of debt has a difficult life and the economy is ruined. Same thing with a country that has a lot of debt, its people life is difficult and
poor. Actually debt is not a financial or economic solution, but debt is a disaster. So from that now banks are becoming more advanced, because
they are increasingly creative in offering various types of loans with high interest. In the same cryptocurrency world, lots of trading capital comes
from debt, that's an unhealthy life. My advice is to avoid it whose name is debt or loan. Bitcoin can be a solution to pay debt but not instant, but in
the long run. Because getting profit from bitcoin needs to be processed.

You are correct that many humans can't avoid it and its normal to have to borrow money from time to time. However you need to be financially smart when doing so because I've seen too many people get trapped into debt over stuff they don't need.

Its normal for most people to have a mortgage. Most people can't save up and pay cash for a house that is half a million. And its certainly alot smarter than renting. Then there are those people who need a car to get to work. They buy some economy car and pay it off in 5 years.

However I've seen people who make $50K a year and buy a $100K Mercedes-Benz. They are also maxed out on all their credit cards and pay their bills late every month. Its not a money problem because they get paid well but they just took up too much debt and right now its starting to hurt them.

Today it’s quite normal to live and take loans from the state or from banks, but at the same time you need to take into account the interest that the party that gives you the money puts on you. But in any case, the person who takes the loan, he is counting on something and has something to make sure that this loan will be repaid in the future. If you work, get a salary and gradually pay a loan, it seems that this process looks stable, but I can’t say this with respect to the cryptocurrency market, because the possibility of repaying the loan that was taken to buy Bitcoin almost looks like a roulette game.

Kprawn

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The problem is that the people are already in so much debt that they cannot buy bitcoins anymore. During 2017 a lot of people wanted to quickly

get into buying some coins, because the price increased a lot and people thought that they could quickly make some profits by buying low and

then dumping those coins for a quick profit. The only problem back then was that most of those people were buying those coins on credit, because

they were already in trouble and had no disposable money or saving to buy those coins. We are once again in the same situation now, people do not

have extra spare cash to buy before the price goes up. Roll Eyes

Wynn1427

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Looking at the numbers Debt to BTC does have a value and always good to see the comparison if various metrics, but does that mean those who hold debt will take BTC to consider what they are owe. How is a borrower pay debt holder back in BTC if all they get paid in is fiat and invest in fiat? The credit markets are massive across the globe and shouldn't be taken lightly and can/will wreak havoc on a system at various time of cycles which will benefit crypto-currencies and one day this may be considered a direct calculation metric, but seems investment must happen first for the system to achieve a state that can even begin to support a credit market. I think a better metric this early on would be to ask how much asset can actually flow into the crypto market as a % of total assets this stage in the game and who would be investing in such a asset class? I would imagine market cap could be ~$3-$4T (~3-4% assets one would be willing to loose on investment).

Quote from: hello_good_sir on November 03, 2019, 12:32:47 AM

When it comes to debt in the US economy, it's horrible. Here are some statistics off a quick google search, it's surprising how tight things are there.

Quote

On average, each household with a credit card carries $8,284 in credit card debt. Total U.S. consumer debt is at $13.51 trillion. The average American now has about $38,000 in personal debt, excluding home mortgages.

That's crazy, being in almost 40,000 worth of debt, without including other fees like mortgages is a lot of money, around a year of working for the average American after taxes.

Not sure if crypto is the answer to solving this complicated question though.

The $13.51T does include mortgages. Still slicing the numbers a little different shows a little more exaggeration of the health conditions, $13.51T / ~130M = $104k per household, but realize ~56M households would be considered as paying a mortgage.

Topic: More Debt, Buy Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 645 times)